Customers Treated as Culprits in Support Calls?

ApolloX asks: "I've worked in the software industry for a number of years and I understand how volatile large computer and database systems can be. Most of the time, I'm only called in when something breaks. I know first hand that issues such as a lack of concurrency control, or just a bad database optimization, can lead to corrupted or even lost data. What I don't know is, why most customer support representatives, in the event there is a data error, will treat the customer as if they are liars or are trying to scam them. I can recall many similar support calls to other companies over the years in which the phrase 'our computer system is never wrong' was repeatedly used as justification for an issue the representative knew little about. Since when did computers become so infallible such that the customer is always wrong? Why does it take multiple escalations of support calls before anyone starts believing that maybe the computer made a mistake?" "On a recent call to a company, let's call it Givo, my account number was accidentally wiped from the system. Throughout the process, I spoke with half a dozen representatives who claimed I had never had their service before and at each step I was 'guilty until proven innocent'. What's worse was that at some moments, even when presented with evidence of my case history in their system, representatives would disregard it because the system told them my account did not exist and had never existed."

Comments

Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[Shados]

The problem, having worked for a time as customer support for an extremely large company, is simply how many people actually DO lie. It is excessively rare (relatively speaking) that a customer, in most fields, has a problem and its not their fault. Think retail: how many people will try to trade in something they broke? Think an ISP: How many people will claim their internet service is down, when they actually screwed up their PCs? By far, far, the majority. From my experience, its pushing 10 to 1.

So unfortunately, unless you want your company to go bankrupt, you can't take what the customer say at face value: they will, and DO abuse it. But at the same time, if you screw over too many innocents, you will go out of business too... so its a matter of finding a balance, unfortunately.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[fstanchina]

> ...to realize that they did broke something.

Like grammar.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[miyako]

Not only that, but often times you run into a situation where there is a legitimate problem, but the user thinks that it's problem foo, when the problem is actually problem bar. Of course, the user, convinced that the problem is foo, will tell you whatever they think you need to hear in order to fix foo. Often times foo is simply a set of the most disasterious and unlikely problems, because those are the only ones big enough for the user to take notice of, and more subtle problems which can be easily fixed by a knowledgable person go unnoticed by the user.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[Stevecrox]

Yeah but they hold this line to stupid levels, I work in Woolworths and we are told to use our best judgement we are taught different ways to spot a someone trying to take the company for a ride, even when you miss it the boss will point it out and you learn from that. I've come across two organisations and three banks which held the view that the computer must be right and will give a few examples :

I signed up to Orange when I was 17, which was to young to own a credit card so my dad was the credit card guarantee while I was the account holder and the person whose account the money was being taken from. As time went on HSBC gave me a credit card and so I became the credit card guaranter. But strangely every billing statement went to my dad, after six months I couldn't talk to technical support without giving my Dads name and password, so six times over four years we had it switched over to my name I have three letters confirming that the number xxxx is in my name. I'd ring support or the leaving line and be told I need to be my Dad to access the account details. I could go into an Orange shop show the manager every scrap of paper Orange had sent me (and those bits they decided to send my Dad.) She would try and argue for me to access my account and no luck. We would then get it changed into my name, within hours I couldn't access the account again. Four years of this, when I left Orange the "we are sorry your leaving letter" was sent to me, fifth letter in four years from orange which wasn't addressed to my Dad. Would they ever agree that having the original contract letter from The Link showing the account was made in my name? The fact that the linked bank accounts were to do with me, the letters from them agreeing the account had been placed in my name meant nothing against that all powerful computer.

1and1 I hate these people, they charged me illegally for £650 worth of bandwidth heck I requested the phone reps and recorded half of my conversations with the telephone reps, then played them to a solicitor and showed her what little paperwork the company had given me. She agreed I was in the right but to win the case I'd need to front £800, I didn't have £650! But because the computer at 1and1 said so it was right, there was no chance of me being in the right it was only a threat of legal action to their CFO which got the bill reduced to a level I could afford.

What about city bank a friend was in tears recently explaining how a credit card company had charged them £25 on an account that didn't exist for a card which no longer existed. I spent hours with that person on the phone rather than the company agree that offering a "credit card protection service" on no card was not in fact offering a service at all, it's come to the point where I got the friend to demand a fraud investigation on city bank themselves as they wouldn't admit the computer might be wrong (still waiting on the reply of this one.)

There are hundreds of people out there to try and scalp a company for all they can get but there are times when the computer is wrong when a person can show this is wrong and the stupid operators need to be able to do something about it and not tell you want the computer says.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[thsths]

> 90% of the people are lying. Period. From trying to lay blame to a supplier to seriously being tooo stupid to realize that they did broke something.

Charming attitude. You may want to remember that being wrong does not imply lying, because lying requires intend. So while I completely believe that 90% of the people are wrong (or at least grossly clueless), I guess that much fewer are actually intentionally lying.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[twistedsymphony]

Even if I think I know what the problem is I find it best to let tech support decide...

I've never worked in support (thank god) but I find if you're perfectly clear about the problem you're experiencing and treat them with respect (hey, THEY didn't cause the problem) then it generally gets worked out. If you let them run through their idiot scrips and are polite the whole time they're much more likely to just escalate your problem to someone that can actually help you. Screaming at them or telling them you know better (even if you really do) pretty much flips a switch that makes them view you as an idiot. Just be nice and play their game and they'll come to the conclusion on their own that you're not.

Also I've found if you call support during the graveyard shift you'll get much more friendly and intelligent people on the other end. I figure they don't get nearly as many calls so they're a lot less frazzled and a lot more willing to help.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[teflaime]

Exactly. If the ISP doesn't want to be in that business, they need to quit offering service to people who are not technically qualified to handle all of the config issues themselves. Now, since they aren't doing that, they have taken it upon themselves to desktop trouble shooting when a user can't access the internet.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[networkBoy]

That was funny.

As an aside, the usual issue is the user/client borked something, doesn't know it, and has no reason to think they did it.
Last night I'm at the in-law's house and I'm asked to call DirecTV (Dish? I dunno what they've got). The preview channel wasn't working and they'd "tried everything" but did not want to call customer support, because they were "largely unhelpful and rude".

I fiddled with the setup for about 5 minutes and bingo, all was well. The receiver had coughed up a hairball and lost the zip code, which apparently is required to get a local channel list. Re-entered that and all was well.

I happen to know the user was not at fault, because the only remote in the house that can access setup has no batteries in it, simply so they can't accidentally mess up the settings. Never the less, they swore the problem was at the provider end and it wasn't. I have a feeling that this is the most common support call.

On a separate note, having them not think you've ever been a customer could be a good thing no? Get the new subscriber discount over again? (Unless you had one of those awesome lifetime deals, then yeah, that'd suck).
-nB

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[Hatta]

The problem, having worked for a time as customer support for an extremely large company, is simply how many people actually DO lie.

Of course we do. You won't even talk to us if we tell you we're running linux.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[Anonymous Coward]

> Just yesterday I asked a customer if she was using Outlook Express for her email. She distinctly replied "yes, I am". I offered her a few instructions for Outlook Express, at the end of which she says "But I'm using Mail.app on a Mac". I don't know why she lied to me, but she did.

I know why. She was scared of your script. Most scripts include things like this:

"Are you using Outlook Express?"
"No, I'm using Mail.app on a Mac."
"We can only support OE on Windows. Thank you for your continued business. Is there anything else we can help you with? Have a wonderful day!"

or worse

"Please to be upgrading to Outlook as it is the mail application which we are being supporting."

I've done it myself more times than I can count. Can't get DNS? Can't even ping the DNS server? Can't even get an IP? Rebooting didn't work? Rebooting and power-cycling the router didn't work? Rebooting, power-cycling the router, and trying a different laptop didn't work? Probably not my problem, the ISPs.

Any first-level tech that asks me if I've checked whether Outleak is pointed to the correct SMTP server told "yes", even if I'm on a Linux box. I don't expect you (or anyone else) to support MailClient.Obscure.FooBarBaz, but if I tell you that's what I'm running, I'll be told to "upgrade" to OE. If I can't get a friggin' IP address, the mail client isn't the problem.

The fundamental problem is that most organizations' customer support sucks so hard that we now assume that lying is necessary to (a) get past the irrelevant parts of the script, and (b) deny the scriptwriter any excuse to deny us support -- because when we call you, we assume that you(r organization's) goal is to avoid supporting us. Any lies we tell to prevent you(r scriptwriter) from ducking that responsibility are fully justifiable.

Your customers are lying because we distrust you as much as you distrust us. It's not like the airlines, where there's actual hatred between customer and rep, but it's pretty damn close.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[KevReedUK]

I would also second that (third it, if you will...).

A few years ago I was working as a Tech Support Engineer (... well... technically, I was the entire IT support team!) when I encountered this little gem.

We (a medium sized secondary school in the UK) had 2 buildings, about 1km apart. I had a call from a teacher in our English dept one morning asking me to come over and refill the paper in their printer. Not really in the mood for a 2km round trip when I already had plenty to do that day, I simply gave the relevant instructions (pull out paper tray, put paper in, make sure it doesn't go above red line and slide the tray back in), thinking this would be well within the capabilities of someone who teaches English Literature.

Ten minutes later, I get another call from the same department, to say it's still not printing.

What do I find when I get there? They had followed my instructions to the letter and had therefore ommitted the step I thought didn't need stating (take the paper OUT OF THE PLASTIC WRAPPER!!!).

A couple of weeks later, the same initial request presented itself. This time, I repeated the instructions from before, but included the missing step.

When I heard nothing for about an hour, I assumed they'd figured it all out. BIG mistake. I get a cal saying they have a paper jam.

When I get there, the printer is telling me there is a jam in the paper tray. When I try to remove the tray, however, it doesn't budge... at all!

I ask the teacher who'd called what EXACTLY they'd done when re-filling it.

With a VERY sheepish look, she informs me that there had only been about 50 sheets left in the ream, and it was no-where near reaching the red line in the tray, so they'd put a hard-back dictionary into the drive under the paper to bring it up to the red line. 50 sheets later, the printer tries to load a hardback disctionary into a paper path designed for paper of a maximum weight of 110gsm and jams up so badly I had to dismantle pretty much the entire printer to remove it.

The moral of the story... for every idiot-proof system, there is AT LEAST one system-proof idiot!

The other little gem was when I caught the head of our maths dept trying desperately to get a eCommerce website to accept his credit card details on the machine in the staff lounge by repeatedly sliding his credit card in and out of the floppy drive, faster and faster, wiping it, trying again, blowing the drive (I assume to try to dislodge any dust). Eventually he went to phone me only to notice I was already in the room and asked why I'd disabled the ability to read credit cards on ALL computers, not just those in the student labs?!?

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[pintpusher]

csr: can you turn off the modem, wait 30 seconds and turn it back on.

me: plays gnometris for about 45 seconds, 'cuz I already did that

me: mumble mumble mumble, "okay yeah its back up now. "

csr: okay, now reboot your computer.

me: plays some more gnometris while muttering "come on... god I hate how long this takes..."

me: type ifdown eth2 && ifup eth2 just to make sure... nope, no connection. click over to modem diagnostics page, note that signal levels are still crap, play some more gnometris "okay, computer's back up. umm..." wait, wait wait "yeah, no connection. "

csr: okay, please click on the start menu, settings, control panel... blah blah blah ... click on "Repair Connection"

me: ooh that must be some "magic" button, types ifdown eth2 && ifup eth2, check signal levels again, play some more gnometris "nope, no luck still no ip address."

csr: okay, we'll have to schedule a tech to come take a look at that. We can have them come between 4:00AM next thursday and 11:00PM the thris following Saturday, will that be alright... So, yeah, I lie to csr's.

Re:Its simply an issue with filtering out "noise"

[bcattwoo]

> ...to realize that they did broke something.

Like grammar.

It looks OK at my end. Must be a user problem at your end.

Try working as a CSR, first...

[djones101]

Have you ever had to work as a CSR? Have you ever had to take multiple calls per hour assisting users with various computing tasks? Have you ever had to spend hours out in the field diagnosing a problem with someone's machine, only to have them point out (once you finally find the problem) that they "tried doing this or that" with the computer? I spent 8 years as a CSR at a small ISP. We had a saying around the office. "The customer is always right, and the source of 95% of the problems." While the court system may describe someone as innocent until proven guilty, it's futile to apply that to a real-world application. No matter how an application "should" work (it bears noting that "should" is a curse word in the industry), there will always be a user that finds a way to royally screw something up and then blame it on the software (or hardware) not doing what the user thinks it "should" do. Remember the old adage, "make something idiot proof and God will make a better idiot".

Paging Dr. House

[Gothmolly]

EVERYONE LIES.

People drop their iPods and claim that they 'died'.
People hotplug drives that aren't hotplug and RMA them to Newegg.
People push GPOs to servers, then claim "I didn't change anything" to everyone else.

Combine this with the fact that on the other hand, the customers are frequently more knowledgeable than the front line support, and you're bound to have an antagonistic relationship. How many times have you called about a PC problem, and had to wade through the "ok, lets reboot in Safe Mode" or "please click Start, then Run, then "C M D -dot - E X E".... just to fix a farking bad video card?

Because so many customers who call up are wrong?

[TheLink]

Because so many customers who call up are wrong?

That's why many companies separate the customers into groups. One group who are usually right (or pay extra to be treated that way :) ). And another group who are clueless.

Even companies like Dell have an Engineer-to-Engineer support, and at that level if a customer says the CDROM drive is broken it's not because it was used as a cup-holder ;).

Now if companies could semi-automatically sort long-term customers into separate groups that'll be good.

It'll be good for me and _them_ when I tell them that they've screwed up their routing config, and no I do not need to reboot my ADSL modem - they don't go uh "that's not in the script" and keep asking me to do pointless stuff.

Never mind the bollocks, here's customer support

[Dogtanian]

I knew that their customer support sucked when they put me on hold and I got a Sex Pistols tune:-

"Lie lie lie lie liar you lie lie lie lie lie
Tell me why tell me why why d'you have to lie
Should've realised that you should've
Told the truth should've realised you know what
I'll do
You're in suspension...
You're a liar!"

What I have learned working as a CSR in the past

[DaveV1.0]

People lie, people are stupid, and people think we are stupid.

People will have something break, try to fix it themselves, then call for help, then lie about what they did.

People will do really stupid things then lie about it.

People will do things that obviously void their warranty and then lie about it.

"It was broken before I opened it, so why won't you fix it under the warranty?"

"My baby likes to play with my cell phone, so I let her play with it. It stopped working after she put it in her mouth. You mean that isn't covered under the warranty?!? My husband is a doctor and we are going to sue you!"

"You mean the salesman lied to me? I am going to sue your company. What do you mean I can't sue your company, he was your salesman! What to you mean he doesn't work for your company, he sold me your product!"

I have model X and it won't do this thing I want it to do.

Model X doesn't have that feature.
What do you mean it doesn't have that feature? Everything can do that.
Only models Y and Z support that.
You are LYING! Let me talk to your supervisor!

They usually are.

[seebs]

I was hanging out on a playstation-related forum. There was a thread there discussing the importance of getting an extended warranty on your PS3, so that when a new and improved model comes out, you can take the old one into the shop, claim it doesn't work, and demand a replacement.

Many participants planned to do this. The couple of people who suggested it might be unethical were laughed at.

My help desk experience with this

[spywhere]

I was the alpha geek on the Help Desk for a multi-state corporation.
Many of the callers seemed to have a guilty conscience: they would say things like "Is it something I did wrong?"
My standard answer: "This probably wasn't your fault, but I'm looking for a way to blame you."

It's a matter of tact.

[AmiAthena]

I agree 100% that most customer support calls are because of something stupid the customer did, but customer support reps often seem to forget that they are literally there to support the customer. If I have my techie friend fix my computer for free, he can condescend and make me feel stupid all he wants. That sort of attitude is not appropriate in a business relationship. If I'm paying for electronics, software, and in some cases the customer suppport itself, the person on the phone could have the courtesy to at least *pretend* they don't think I'm a drooling moron. There's no reason to use the tone of voice you'd use when speaking to a developmentally challenged toddler. Even if I'm displaying the intelligence of one. I've never really believed that "the customer is always right." But I do think that though we all know the customer is probably wrong, the customer should still feel like you do accept that platitude.

It's not really fair to beat up on tech support, though, as I find all the various customer service industries are getting more and more rude. It seems like everyone is forgetting that it's your privilege that I'm your paying customer, not the other way around. Once upon a time people tried to earn your business, and people who had to interact with the public/customers were trained with some sucecss to be polite and friendly. It's OK if it's insincere, if it's just an act for my benefit. You don't have to mean it when you tell me to have an nice day, but it's unprofessional not to say it.

Aside from "The customer IS wrong" argument

[elrous0]

Even if the rep realizes that the customer is not at fault, they would be crazy to openly admit it without trying to blame them first. First of all, admitting that the software/hardware company screwed up would open themselves up to a huge liability (no small consideration in an age when class action lawyers are circling like vultures).

Secondly, this would likely anger the customer even more than trying to blame them. "We believe you may have done x, y, and z wrong" (when the customer doesn't even understand the technical issues behind x, y, and z) is a LOT more effective than "We screwed you." In the first instance, the customer starts thinking to themselves "Well, maybe is WAS my fault." With the second response, he starts screaming at the rep and threatening legal action.

It's a lot cheaper to have one customer suspicious of you (and reluctant to use you again) than to be besieged by lawyers or having to pay for serious damages done.

A favorite support anecdote

[mr_mischief]

One of my favorite calls was when I was the junior network admin at a largish (40k customers) ISP. The phone techs would ask my advice if they were stumped. Our techs were all trained to reason through things instead of using a set script. It worked pretty well for the techs who actually stayed after the training.

So this call comes in, and this lady says our "software" is causing her screen to go solid yellow every time she dials the modem. Fair enough, the tech decides, we'll have her uninstall and reinstall the acceleration software. She isn't using acceleration software. So it's not _our_ software, at least. So he talks her through removing the modem from the Windows device manager and reinstalling the driver. Same problem.

So, the customer is quite upset, understandably. The tech is frustrated because he really doesn't want to suggest reinstalling Windows, which the customer assures us her husband just did last week. So he comes to me, and asks. We talk for a minute or two, and I deduce that if it's not software, it must be hardware. The tech can't understand how dialing the modem makes the screen go yellow, and under normal circumstances I wouldn't either. I'm just never quick to just assume the hardware is operating under normal circumstances or is fully operational in the first place.

So, he tells the customer it's a coincidence that it happens with our service, because it seems to be a problem with her hardware. She's slow to accept that her computer just suddenly stopped working (isn't that how they usually stop, suddenly?). So the tech comes back and asks what, specifically, would cause the screen to go screwy when the modem is dialed. So I suggest that either the motherboard is mis-routing signals on the bus or there's a circuit in the machine that shouldn't be there -- some loose screw, some bit of bracket that's shorting something, or something similar. I suggest to the tech that he suggest to her to just have her computer cleaned and checked.

Ten minutes later, the customer calls back and thanks the technician for the wonderful support. She had unplugged the system, popped the cover, and removed the Big Ball of Dust that was connecting the PCB of her modem to the PCB of her video adapter. With the cover back on and power restored, she could get online and still see what she was doing.

As a CSR, I say "hear, hear!"

[Animaether]

By far the most pleasant customers are those who will read/listen to what you're saying, and will give you accurate information back. Their problem also gets resolved -much- faster.

I know a lot of you out there are going to be "but we often know better than the CSR anyway", but if that is the case, then wtf are you doing calling the support line? You obviously need help, so -let- them help you in the way that they know will be best. Yes, they'll walk you through a stupid flowchart on their screen - but those flowcharts are typically well-made to determine exact causes and exact solutions.

Too often when I get a call there'll be somebody saying "it doesn't work", and we spend 3 minutes just to find out -what- doesn't work, -when- it doesn't work, and -how- it doesn't work. Then when you get them a (possible) solution X, they're quiet for a while, get back to you and say "Hey, I tried Y and it didn't work", and we have to go figure out if them changing Y f'ed things up even more so that we have to undo Y before getting back to X.

The longest support call I've had was 3 hours, and was from exactly such a user, and I'm sure they were thinking "why the hell did that take so long? they suck!" but they never mentioned. Another user with the same problem just 2 weeks before who was one of the aforementioned was back up and running in 4 minutes.

Now of course we don't pre-judge our users, but it usually takes only a minute to figure out where they lay.. the 3 hour, the 2 minute, or somewhere inbetween variety, and will take appropriate action when determined. I.e. get some extra coffee and an aspirin for the 3 hour ones.

Re:As a CSR, I say "hear, hear!"

[jeffasselin]

Too often, flowchart junkies don't know shit in my experience. They follow the flow-chart because that's all their training actually covered and they really don't know shit about what you're talking about. I mean, if your stupid ADSL modem has no power light, don't tell me to reboot my computer...

Intelligent, informed tech-support specialists (which I like to think I am) will listen to your basic exposition of information, then ask specific, targeted questions to help them better understand the issue, and then attempt to fix the problem. Good tech support personnel doesn't use flowcharts.

Re:As a CSR, I say "hear, hear!"

[abb3w]

When I call tech support, 90% of the time it's because something is wrong outside of my control, if it was in my control I would have fixed it already.

Seconded; it's also sometimes the case that it's dead hardware. The problem is when the script reader tries to force an "almost" situation into the flowchart, or when the script writer faces a situation not in the flowchart. ("Not using Windows" is the classic.)

Here's an example that recently unnecessarily pissed me off. The product was not this flash drive from Think Geek, but one similar enough for illustrative purposes; let's call the manufacturer Foonly, since I don't think the actual company deserves their name attached to this anecdote. I bought a drive about six months ago, and it worked fine. Then, it randomly died, despite being carried around quite carefully in its little plastic case. (Less likely to lose than with the keychain hanger.) This sort of thing happens once in a while with flash drives. No big deal, just irritating.

So, I checked out the Foonly.com website, looking for a number for warranty replacement. After poking around in their self-help area (and being led in circles), I found a phone number for Foonly computer hardware support. The phone system there (a) put me on hold for half an hour, (b) finally connected me to someone that said their system had crashed and I should call back the next day, which (c) involved a second half-hour wait and (d) when I did get through, finally had someone tell me I had the wrong department, and that I should call Foonly Computer Media instead. So, I'm not in a good mood already when I reach the right department.

The script reader asks (with a slight tonal accent) if I'm using my Foonly computer (due to the previous call, no doubt) with the drive. I respond I don't own one of theirs. They ask what computer I am using. I cheerfully inform them that I've had the problem with my home Dell WinXP laptop, Shuttle Win2KPro mini-desktop, and LianLi/Gigabyte homebuilt Win2KServer; plus my work OS X.2 desktop, the OS X.4 desktop next to my office, the Win2K3 Supermicro server, Fedora 5 Supermicro x86 server, and Fedora 6 PPC server on the old G4 that was lying about. After a distinct pause from the other end from this list, I politely ask which of these machines the script tech would like to try to repeat the troubleshooting from.

After another pause, they elect (of course) the Windows XP laptop. I boot it up, log in, plug in the device, and get the cheerful "USB device not recognized" message wont to come from something that has fried it's self-identifying chip. There's a pause on the other end, in which I jump to the standard Microsoft Management Console and check the device manager; I mention that it's shown attatched as an "Unknown Device". After some thought (click, click, click), they ask if I've installed any software lately; I inform, just the regular Security patches on the Windows and Linux machines. The script person decides this is a way out, and insists that since my machine has trouble seeing the device, I should order an adapter from yet ANOTHER (toll-free) number. I ask if this is an adapter to change the USB adapter from the funny USB to a standard USB-A-Male connector; I'm told I should order one. I ask what makes her thinks this will fix the Mac problem, which has not had any software installed; I'm told I should order one....

I hang up; I note that the "adapter" information is on the web-based self-help troubleshooting guide, but for if the device is "not detected", as opposed to "not detected correctly". From morbid curiousity, I rustle around my box of SCSI adapters, Syquest drives, Elder Seals and other such, and pull out another company's bare-pin-USB-M to USB-A-M adapter from another manufacturer (which includes the adapter standard with its products). It fits. I test with the three machines at home. No effect; still d

Well...

[fitten]

First, most/many customers don't necessarily lie as much as simply being ignorant of what may be going on. My mother, for example, wouldn't be able to tell you anything more than "when I click on this web page, it doesn't do what it used to do". It's the responsibility of the CSR to ask questions to lead the customer to the point of describing what's going on so that some clue might pop out to identify the problem.

Second, customer *do* lie... particularly when they're embarassed about either what they did to cause the problem or embarassed for not knowing what the problem actually is and having to call someone else to help fix it.

Third, you get some customers who are convinced they are right (they are "experts" in the field already) and their description of the problem will be influenced by their 'conclusion'.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Be polite? After listening to "hold" drivel??!

[quixote9]

I feel for CSRs. They get to listen to people after the bad music, company ads, and all the other drivel. By that time, I'm already right round the bend. And I start out irritated because I wouldn't be calling if there was no problem. I can't even tune the drivel out. I hear a voice break into the bad music, I think "Ah!" and then it's some perky twit saying, "Visit our website at jelloforbrains.com! There's a big support section! It answers your questions! See new features! Order new products! Jelloforbrains.com!"

Apparently, it never occurs to the jelloheads who put these things together that you've just come off an extremely frustrating couple of hours on a badly designed website.

By the time the poor first-line CSR gets someone like me, I'm loaded for bear and ready to kill. I try to be polite. Honest, I do. At the other end, it probably feels like a merry-go-round on a minefield.

So here's an idea for corporations: STOP WASTING MY TIME. If you have to put me on hold, just send out a slow, pleasant, monotone beep every ten seconds or so to let me know the connection is working. No music, no ads, no drivel. Let me get on with my life till the rep shows up.

If there's some useful information you can put at the beginning, by all means do it before the slow beep starts. But remember, I'm talking about useful to *me*, not you. For instance, the "real" support requests probably center around real faults in the product, and (hopefully!) that's a limited list. The top three real issues could be enumerated, possibly with extensions to go to a pool of CSRs used to dealing with that issue.

I know. Users are idiots and the system will never work. People will just push buttons. Sure, I've done it on occasion myself in fits of berserk fury. The reason it happens is because the goddamn choices are goddamn useless. Psych 101 will tell you that people tend to behave according to other people's expectations of them. So, just maybe, if companies stopped treating users like idiots, at least some of them would stop behaving that way. If it worked on only 25%, that would still save a lot of money.

Yeah, it's not quite that simple.

[stonecypher]

When I was just out of college, I did tech support for a local ISP for about two years. I managed to net a promotion or raise every other month by not succumbing to the tendencies you're describing. It's a lot harder to not to that than it sounds.

The problem comes earlier than that. 95% of the people who call in are on the war-path. It wasn't really so bad for me, because the ISP only had about ten thousand customers, meaning we had a few dozen regular callers and a few hundred occasional callers. It wasn't long until the problem users (and there are a suprising lot of them) were all being shipped straight to me, presumably because I have a deep voice, careful use of the language, I'm polite on the job and I'll put up with a lot of crap on the job.

I'm not going to say we had the cup-holder CD guy, but there's a lot of that kind of stuff to go around. The problem is, it's not funny, good natured or any of that. It's really sometimes quite bitter and acrimonious. I'll give you the example of Dave, who called in just after he moved; he wasn't able to dial in, and he was "certain it was [the ISP]'s low quality hardware tripping him up again." The problem was that he had forgotten to put a phone cable in place between the computer and the new wall.

Thing is, he had a teenage son, and that son would go screwing with his settings on a weekly basis. It wasn't long before he was asking for me by name to just go through the settings and roll them back one by one. He'd get furious if I didn't help with non-ISP stuff, and any suggestion that he just discipline the child or lock the machine down got met with a tantrum about how he paid his twenty dollars a month and that meant we had to come change the oil in his car if he wanted us to and rah rah rah.

They aren't treating you as a culprit. It's just that the chances you're going to be tolerable are miniscule, and it's almost certain that the person they just talked to completely screwed them off.

It's one of the paradoxes inherent in reliable systems: the more reliable your system, the fewer of your tech support calls will be from reasonable people who didn't cause their own problems. The more reliable the system, the lower the likelihood you're not a moron, and the higher the likelihood you're a jerk.

Given that Tivo's internal system is likely to be exceedingly simple, it seems to me quite likely that the rate of defects in their system is so low and the rate of assholes on the telephone so high that nearly everyone you talked to really has never seen a fault in the system, nor has met anyone else at work who has. They probably really believe what they're saying.

Going on the stuff I put up with at work ten years ago, I figure there's a good chance that the employee thought you had just misremembered the data you were trying to get them to look up by. About eleven times in ten, that's what's going on, and humoring the customer means they'll keep flogging the mistake, instead of trying to figure it out.

Not to mention these people are adults making nine bucks an hour without benefits, dealing with angry people on the phone all day. Wouldn't you assume the worst, if that was your life?

Re:The problem is

[Cavedragon]

Thanks for the generalization. I resent the statement that I lack the "motivation, nor the intellect to conceptualise or actually solve problems"

I work as a tier 1 support person on a scripted help desk. I have 25 years of computer experience- no formal training, but I can build a PC from scratch in my sleep, configure a wireless network with my eyes closed, and recite from memory most of the common scripts we use. We support 40000 users who use some subset of approximately 1200 applications ranging from Microsoft products to custom applications written by our own developers. My colleagues don't all have the same skill set I have, but we were all trained to the same basic standards. I've seen people fail the training and not be able to work in my department- I owe my job to one. Also, we are expected to reach customer satisfaction goals as well as call resolution goals.

For reasons I do not wish to discuss publicly, this job suits me very well. I'm motivated each day to come in, do my job, and when my shift ends, I go home and live my life without worrying about being on call, managing people, or other job related issues.

I get paid very well to spend my day resetting passwords, explaining to people how to archive their email, and creating tickets for printer jams. I deal with secretaries, executives, developers, and sales people, so I encounter end users of all skill levels. I also encounter problems not covered in our knowledgebase (the scripts). In every case, I do my best to resolve my caller's issues, scripted or not. Sometimes I do solve them. If not, I will pass them along to the appropriate Level 2 (or above) support team.

I find that some callers lie, some provide more information than I need, some won't provide any information. In short, they run the gamut of human experience, just like my colleagues do. The best callers are the ones who say "I don't know much about computers", because I can tell them that they don't need to be, they just need to answer my questions and follow the steps I give them. It's up to me to extract the information that I need to solve their problem from the things they say.

The bottom line, for me, is that if they knew the answers to their questions, I would not have a job. I treat each call as unique, and each customer with respect. I can't say the same for my treatment by the callers, but it doesn't bother me, because I do my best.

It's people like the parent poster that I have the hardest time dealing with- arrogance cloaked in superiority leads to more foolish mistakes than the people who call and say "I don't know much about computers", who tend to make more honest mistakes.

Pay CSRs better.

[quag7]

Want better support?

Pay an extra $5 a month for your service.

Pay CSRs better to retain them for longer so that they become more and more skilled.

Call centers have massive turnover rates because frankly, the job kind of sucks. Bizarre shifts, sometimes extremely long shifts, and crap pay, depending on where you work. Customer service is something everyone complains about. A little more respect for reps would help a lot. Make it into a worthy career, and maybe people will stick around. Provide break time and ample vacation. Provide benefits. Encourage people to stay in the position for several years and become skilled at whatever it is they are supporting, rather than using the job as a stepping stone to other things. One skilled, experienced rep is probably better than 3 or 4 clueless new hires. In time, these reps should become coaches to new hires. People with generic management skills are *not*, simply by nature of having managed people, qualified to be a team leader in a call center. Handling even the most technical of technical support calls can be 50% psychology. It's not necessarily even that your problem is fixed, but that you leave happy and maintain your service.

But if you want bargain basement prices, that's where they're going to cut corners. It is where they have always cut corners. They're not going to cut the salaries and benefits of the executive officers in the company to save cash; that's for sure.

Don't take your frustration out on the reps. They've been dealing with upset, and sometimes childishly rude customers all day. As reps are bottom on the corporate totem pole, they have little influence over anything. Perhaps they are lucky and have a progressive management that listens to them. Probably not. They are probably underpaid or outright exploited contractors whose performance is based on metrics that have little to do with how happy you actually are, except to the extent that you affect the bottom line in some significant way.

If you get poor service, complain to the top. If a CSR is downright rude, mention them by name. They need to be disciplined or terminated. If you're ticked off about the service, spare the CSR, because it will be easier to fire the CSR than make systemic changes to the way the call center is managed (which may include things like training.)

I assume the Slashdot crowd here uses online "self servicing" before calling. Know that many people don't. Know that many people choose to engage in a 45 minute call (including hold time and navigating VRUs) rather than take 5 minutes to do a search on the website. The hold times you are experiencing may be a result of customers like this (and obviously, yes, if you're talking about an ISP, some people can't get online to use self-servicing, but you'd be surprised how many people are simply lazy).

10% of customers are simply unprofitable due to the havoc they wreak on their own computers, and the number of times they call technical support. Many customers will attempt to disguise problems they themselves caused, as a problem with the service whose tech support line they are calling. For example, a customer downloads malware which screws their system up. They will call and say that "your software" did this to their system and you damn well better help. Or it's Microsoft's problem, or some other piece of software they insist on running is interfering with your product.

Customers expect reps to be experts on every piece of software, OS, and possible configuration. I've seen people call reps "morons" because they don't know how to support FreeBSD or obscure desktop-altering applications on their $7.50 an hour salaries.

Sometimes CSRs are bastards because they've been dealing with childish jerks all day. Some CSRs are incompetent, or ill-tempered and don't belong on a company's front lines, but this is probably the exception rather than the rule. There are many reasons for bad customer service, but most of it has to do with shortcuts take