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Student Arrested for Writing Essay
mcgrew writes "The Chicago Tribune reports that an eighteen year old straight-A High School student was arrested for writing an essay that 'disturbed' his teacher. Even though no threats were made to a specific person, 18 year-old Allen Lee's English teacher convened a panel to discuss the work. As a result of that discussion, the police were called in. 'The youth's father said his son was not suspended or expelled but was forced to attend classes elsewhere for now. Today, Cary-Grove students rallied behind the arrested teen by organizing a petition drive to let him back in their school. They posted on walls quotes from the English teacher in which she had encouraged students to express their emotions through writing.'"
I've been following this case for a couple of days now, but can't seem to find anyone who has posted the essay anywhere. So I appeal to the /.ers -- anyone know of a copy?
Without seeing the essay in question, we can't know whether there were substantiable threats being made, or whether this clearly is a free speech issue. From all accounts, it appear to be the latter, but I would like to have all doubts removed.
It sounds like a pretty scary catch-all if it includes writing essays. what else is considered "disorderly conduct" under US law?
Also, doesn't the US have a constitution which makes freedom of expression an absolute right?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
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I'm curious what they're calling this, if not suspension or expulsion.
I was referred to the school psychologist by my physics teacher due to a "disturbing" lab report I wrote. It was supposed to be funny. My results were really far off from accepted values of the index of refraction fro the material we were testing. So I blamed it on microscopic blackholes warping spacetime to create a gravatic lens. I blamed my result on that or " possibly a covert attempt by the Clintons to cover up the "suicide" of Vince Foster"
Apparently, he though that meant I was suicidal.
Maybe his was more disturbing. Its difficult to say what to do in each situation. It seems like some people overreact, and others under react. I think my case was clearly an attempt at humor, but recommending a visit tot he school shrink for further evaluation is probably the best first step.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
On the off chance the kid is a nut job I guess you need to check him out
Allen Lee - is that like Stan Lee or Bruce Lee? Just wondering if we have a teacher running in fear of young asian men.
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True story.
Several years ago, post-Columbine, my brother-in-law, a high-school senior at the time, had a bb-gun, a pistol in a bag in the back seat of his car. After school, he was going to give a few of his friends a ride, and a couple sat in the back. One of them opened the bag, saw the gun, and took it out. They were still in the parking lot of the school. Another student that was walking by saw the gun and told school officials.
The upshot of this was that all the students in the car were suspended, and my brother-in-law was expelled. After much lawyering and many hearings, he was allowed to receive his diploma, but was not allowed back to his original school. For the final three months of high school, he attended the "juvenile offenders" school.
In our current climate, I think he got off lucky.
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Wasn't it the teacher who incited the disorder? The student turn in homework expecting it to remain visible to the teacher only. However, she shared it with others which sparked a heated debate. The action that lead to the disorder was not the writing of the paper but the sharing of the paper. I propose that the TEACHER be arrested for the charges.
Layne
Emotional outlets like creative writing can serve to provide early indication of a troubled soul. Charging a kid with a crime is not the best way to respond to this type of situation. The student may need counseling or a psychological examination, but this rough handling will only serve to alienate him. We're not supposed to be afraid of our children, we're supposed to be afraid for them.
Every time a troubled youth acts out in a destructive way, society suffers, not only in grief but in shame and guilt - we're supposed to help our fellow humans, especially the young ones. Every student murder-suicide report should count the perpetrator as a victim - we failed to notice the warning signs & help that individual, and it resulted in their demise.
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
Yes, but what do they fear? Another shooting spree, or the inevitable lawsuits brought by those who are more interested in blaming someone, *anyone*, than they are in the damage they are doing by suing those who could not be reasonably be held responsible for the tragedy?
The ones who need to be shot at dawn are the lawyers who are willing to bring those suits, thinking more of their own paycheck than the damage they are doing.
Ironic- The CAPTCHA is breakage
...Let the stereotyping begin.
Seriously though, thanks for the article.
It's fine for teachers to be vigilant and all following the VT massacre, but the principal and his/her underlings could have at least spoken to the kid about the essay (if you can call it that) to get the straight story.
And herein lies one of those traps that these "educators" can set up for themselves: a free-form assignment, unfettered by structure, unrestricted in content, heck, turn it in on toilet paper if you want, combine that with the ethnicity of the writer, and it gets used as evidence of a threat and an arrest.
The arrest is a clear case of going overboard. If this does not get corrected, well I guess we've found a new way of wrecking a young man's future.
Full disclosure: I are an Asian male... not young tho.
Science never settles, never rests.
In the mid-80's, I wrote a short story about a group of terrorist who seized a building and ended up killing many people in their quest.
Not only did I not get into trouble, I was rewarded with an excerpt reading in class and a free trip to a gifted writers' workshop where I won awards and accolades.
If I did that today, I'd be sent away pretty quickly, I'd imagine.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I remember writing short stories in 11th grade (many a year ago) using words from the week's vocabulary list in preparation for SATs. One of them was sort of Salem witch trials thing, with a haunted town with missing people and dead bodies. There were some others that were not my typical writing but because it was a "creative writing" and "expressive writing" assignment I decided to explore. At the time I was contemplating becoming a writer, and I thought the best way to do that was to write different stories on different subject even if it wasnt my typical stuff. Playing with words and putting it into a short story has always been fun for me. Some of the stories I wrote could potentially make me look disturbed, but even though I was quite shy in high school I've had a good family background, and common sense in me.
Attitudes like these probably mean the rocker, goth, emo, etc subcultures among teens trying to express themselves or find out who they really are, may find themselves target for "re-education" if someone deems their writing 'disturbing' when it simply may not be.
I'm really concerned about this type of attitude and I hope that politicians do not take advantage of the unfortunate incident in VT to pass legislation that makes everything ever written by our students archived and available as evidence in the future if someone is accused of a crime. Could you imagine someone pulling out your old essay from that bad day you had which you turned in?
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Disorderly conduct, which carries a penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine, is filed for pranks such as pulling a fire alarm or dialing 911. But it can also apply when someone's writings can disturb an individual, Delelio said.
So if a student writes an essay about there being no God, and the teacher is heavy into his/her religion and is disturbed by the essay, then according to the law, the teacher can have the student arrested for disorderly conduct?
No, no it isn't.
I hate to use this phrase, but if you succumb to paranoia, then the terrorists have won.
Each case should be evaluated on its own merits, because each person is an individual.
I'd settle for referral to mental health professionals, and I would not accept any of that other shit except on their advice. If they say that the kid is a genuine threat, okay, prevent him from purchasing firearms. But I'm not willing to do that just because the kid writes about death. We all think about death and teenagers sitting in school wondering when the next student will snap and kill a bunch of people, and if they're going to be next to die, are probably going to be thinking about it more than most.
I certainly know that when I was a teenager, death was something much more interesting than I find it now. Now it's mostly something to be avoided for as long as possible.
We all have these thoughts inside of us. This student's only crime is taking his teacher's instructions too literally. She is a liar. She didn't really want the students to express themselves. She wanted them to write something not too scary. If anyone should be cited for anything, it should be her, for being a shitty teacher. Too bad that's not a crime - but if it were, at least four of my elementary school instructors, all but about five of my junior high instructors (from two schools!) and all but maybe four of my high school instructors (also from two schools) would be in prison or hanged by the neck until dead by now.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Agreed. The State's interest in preventing people from 'feeling disturbed' doesn't outweigh the chilling effects of the threat of criminal sanctions for speaking out. Heck, the State's interest isn't even compelling. If charges are filed on this basis, the statute should be held unconstitutional, not on its face, but as applied.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
Well, it's true. The only person who ever bullied me in school that I've actually seen afterwards was a kid I clocked in the face on the bus in high school, and we were on good terms by that point. Amazing what standing up for yourself can do. But it was a long time before I could even reach that point.
But at the same time, it's a huge part of your life when you're a kid, and the way we make it a miserable place to be is just unforgivable and unacceptable.
I mean, you spend more time going to school than doing anything else but maybe sleeping during that part of your life. Don't you think it's horribly wrong the way children are treated there?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In high school I was always the "Weird Kid" because I wore black leather, listened to heavy metal, was overly sarcastic enjoyed computers (and solitude in a dark basement) and spoke "English" (not Ebonics). The day after columbine I apparently fit the profile and was instantly suspended. After threatening to call the ACLU they let me back to class and warned me not to behave "suspiciously" or I will phase the consequences.
But... aren't we taught to be understanding and sensitive to other peoples differences. Oh wait! That only applies as long as you are part of the status quo.
"My Bad Yo"
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I work for a very large federal agency and I occasionally teach sexual harassment refresher courses for my employer. I volunteer for this duty because I am one of the few people I know who will openly admit that I've been placed formally on warning for sexual harassment. I use my experience to illustrate the change in standards.
25 years ago, when my agency first started paying attention to the topic, the standard was "reasonableness." If a sexual advance or reference would not be found to be a problem by a reasonable person, then it wasn't punished. If *any* activity was found to be a problem by *any* person and that person made such known, then no reasonable person would repeat the activity. See what I'm getting at?
Do something outrageous; get punished.
Do something questionable and no one complains; nothing happens.
Do something questionable and someone lets you know they have a problem with it; now you know that it is unreasonable to repeat that action because someone finds it objectionable.
The bottom line was that everyone got one mistake. If you did something stupid, you could be told so and as long as you didn't do it again, you were OK. That standard worked fine.
I was placed formally on warning for sexual harassment when I stepped into an elevator with two women, one a secretary and one a high-powered exec. I said hello and the exec said "How are you today?" I answered "Lessee, I'm about to get off work on a beautiful Friday afternoon and in the meantime I'm locked in a small room with two beautiful women. How could I be any better?"
The exec put me on warning. The secretary was shocked that anyone could take offense. I got away with it because under a standard of reasonableness, I could not be expected to anticipate the reaction of the exec and could therefore not be held accountable. However, I now understood her rather low standard for getting offended and it would be unreasonable for me to violate it in the future; thus, if I were to make another such witty remark to that exec, I would be suspended or fired. I stopped speaking to her and everything worked out fine. The "reasonableness" criteria was a good one and quite workable.
Nowadays, the standard has changed. I stress to my classes that my very first comment in that elevator would have resulted in severe disciplinary action under our new standard where sexual harassment is now defined, essentially, as anything the victim decides to characterize as sexual harassment. My classes find the example sobering, as well they should.
This story definitely reminds me of when I was in High School, I made a few violent drawings in my math class (we were learning about logic and we were told to illustrate our examples). At the time nobody said anything to me about my violent pictures, everyone just praised my artistic ability. Well, it just so happens that a few weeks later the shootings at Columbine occured and everyone was scared around the country. A different teacher that I never had class with and therefore didn't know me, found my pictures I drew earlier in the year and began to take action. I had just come back from Spring Break when my math teacher hands me photocopies of my pictures and tells me that out of fear the school suggests that I get psychologicaly evaluated. Well I had nothing to hide and I definitely wasn't going to shoot anyone so I agreed. I spoke to the school psychologist once and that was that (I could sense his bordom with me as I was talking to him). Anyway, I just wanted to share that bit of story because I don't think the student who was arrested meant any harm. I know from personal experiance what he might have been thinking when writting such an essay and in no way was it sinister. Oh yeah, and years later when I was in my guidence councelor's office, I took a peak at my file and in it were the original pictures I drew with a note stapled that read in big red letters "SANE"
The article unfortunately does not say precisely what happened to the essay. If the author only submitted it to the school (which is what it sounds like) and did not publicize any of it, then there's nothing disorderly about *his* conduct. And the teacher can't claim to be 'disturbed' by the submission since it's what they asked for.
What I find troubling is that they apparently had no process at all for dealing with the situation, and went straight to calling in the police, not for the benefit or safety of the author and other students, but because the teacher felt like a victim. (And if you're squeamish about the fact that some high school students are not always happy, then you are in the wrong profession.) It never occurred to them to *talk* to the student about his essay?
I also find myself wondering why the article is exposing the student's identity to the world for following orders but not mentioning the name of the teacher who appears to have exercised seriously poor judgment.
"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The trouble-makers. The round heads in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status-quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify, or vilify them. But the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do." - Jack Kerouac
...if you read the excerpts from his writing and the assignment description, is that this is the type of thing they are doing in a senior level English class, and that he was a straight A student.
Yes indeed.
I count my blessings for having attended HS prior to Oklahoma City, Columbine and 9/11!
My friends and I never would have graduated if we had been forced to go to school in the current environment of paranoia. I should probably go over to my Mom's house and burn all of my old school essays(full of guns, knives, explosives, chain saws, nuclear weapons and endless amounts of carnage) just in case.
That is why when I was in school, and I received this kind of assignment, all of my free association writings ended up being a stream of sentences saying that I was writing a free association assignment. There was no way in hell I was going to spill inner most thoughts to some part time government employee, just because they said to.
I was a senior in high school during the 1999 Columbine shootings.
Several months before columbine, there was a shooting at some other school and the kid only injured a couple people (I think he killed like 3 and injured like 6) and I called the kid a pussy and if I had done that, I could kill at least 20, assuming I have enough ammo. Saying that prompted some friends of mine to elaborate on my strategy, which I did, and about a month later, the Columbine shooting happened and the next day (or maybe a couple days later) I was greeted in my 1st period class by a pair of policemen who escorted me to the station to talk to a detective.
As I waited while the detective went through my backpack and removed my notebook, he commented on the fact that I was wearing a trenchcoat and he asked me what kind of music I liked and what videogames I played. At the time, I was an avid Quake player and was hooked on KMFDM (and at this meeting, I was wearing a Maralyn Manson shirt). He flipped through my notebook, and saw dozens of drawings of spattered fluids, severed hands and heads, and sketches of bullet casings. It was just what I was into drawing at the time. I go through phases and had he looked at notebooks the month before, he would have seen lots of rope and barbed wire and stitches and electronics sketches.
this whole thing prompted a full investigation into me, I had to see a therapist for a couple days before they let me back in school, every little scrap of paper that they found that was the least bit violent, they questioned me about... I was frequently pulled out of classes (most often, my calculus class; which I wound up failing due to the frequent interruptions) and every little thing I wrote was studied. It really fucked me up and, although I'm not prone to violence at all, it was really pissing me off and I had to hold back to keep from throwing something at my principal.
it was completely stupid that they did that and it really was for absolutely nothing. I understand that if i was caught discussing that stuff and then I DID shoot up the school, if they did nothing about it, there would be serious problems, but at the same time, it was total bullshit. There's no reason to do that to someone just because they wrote a violent story. Look at all the published authors out there. Look at books like Fight Club and American Psycho (now, major motion pictures!). If someone writes that kind of thing for class, they risk expulsion or at the very least, some serious investigation. If someone writes that whilst trying to sell a book, they stand to make some nice money for themselves.
This fear of terrorism and violence and shootings in today's society is really stifling creativity. Literature will be hurt (due to young people being forcibly held back from writing what they want). Violence in movies is moving to a very stylized look, which although not all bad, I really like gore movies with realistic violence (ichi the killer, battle royal, etc). Even videogames are becoming targets and game studios are threatened with lawsuits just because some whackjob killed someone and happened to own a copy of their game. A man obsessed with John Lennon goes out and kills John Lennon. Who's to blame? The guy's psychosis or John Lennon's music? Why not the music? People blame videogames just as readily. A man obsessed with nascar is dragracing and kills 5 pedestrians in the process... why doesn't anyone sue Nascar?
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I hate to use this phrase, but if you succumb to paranoia, then the terrorists have won.
The terrorists have won. The only thing left to do is become worse terrorists.
I'd settle for referral to mental health professionals, and I would not accept any of that other shit except on their advice. If they say that the kid is a genuine threat, okay, prevent him from purchasing firearms. But I'm not willing to do that just because the kid writes about death. We all think about death and teenagers sitting in school wondering when the next student will snap and kill a bunch of people, and if they're going to be next to die, are probably going to be thinking about it more than most.
Correct- which is why I'm against teenagers owning guns in general.
I certainly know that when I was a teenager, death was something much more interesting than I find it now. Now it's mostly something to be avoided for as long as possible.
I never made it beyond that stage- but at least it's something I'd do to myself, not my neighbors.
We all have these thoughts inside of us. This student's only crime is taking his teacher's instructions too literally. She is a liar. She didn't really want the students to express themselves. She wanted them to write something not too scary. If anyone should be cited for anything, it should be her, for being a shitty teacher. Too bad that's not a crime - but if it were, at least four of my elementary school instructors, all but about five of my junior high instructors (from two schools!) and all but maybe four of my high school instructors (also from two schools) would be in prison or hanged by the neck until dead by now.
However, I'm agreed with that. And the administration for going along with the idiocy that doesn't do any good. We need a stronger link between mental health and gun laws. We don't need to be arresting people who just need to talk.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
> The new evil ill in our society will be plays and essays
Yeah, I read this one that had witchcraft, rape, incest, slavery, prostitution, murder, cannibalism, ethnic cleansing, baby killing, and strange religious cults.
It was called the Bible.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_of_Despair
I think the kid's public statement said it best:
"On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school."
Personally I believe the majority of teachers are glorified babysitters with an unnaturally high opinion of themselves and their profession.
1940's? He said 50 years.
The 1990's are over man, get over it.
And if you don't believe that some things have gotten worse, please tell me where you live.
If it's true, I may just move there.
I wrote many very disturbing things in high school, because that was my favorite style (think Tarantino meets Douglas Adams). And I was bored off my ass... completely, by a school that was far more into "discipline" and sports than education. I graduated before Columbine, but my younger brother attending that school the year after was told not to wear his trenchcoat (in freezing weather) by school staff, etc... I wore one for my last two years, frequently, without incident other than the occaisional compliment. When I wrote things that sufficiently weirded out teachers, I'd end up in the counselor's office (not with the damn police) and sometimes they'd recommend my parents take me to a phsycologist for evaluation (did once, doc said I was smart and bored).
As far as emotion and mental stability are concerned, I'm probably way ahead of 99% of humans... as laid back as can be. Figuring out which kids might go apeshit in school takes a lot more than reading their creative assignments. Unfortunately, right after Columbine, and continuously since then, it seems that school administrators are doing the exact opposite of what they need to to prevent such occurances. Someone with emotional issues who is prevented from expressing in his or her dress, writing, art, speech... well, they're going to feel more and more trapped. For those who can't look ahead to their futures and see the big picture (some huge percentage of everyone), these types of restrictions, and responses like that of this school will. directly. cause. more tragedy. Unfortunately, with school funding what it is, hiring intelligent, qualified people who get it is a bit difficult, so I only expect to see more and more such idiocy.
If you're an outsider and nerd in high school now and reading this, I can say this though: In college, and moreso even in the real world thereafter, you're gonna be doing much better than the rest... just zoom out your perspective some and you'll see this is a minor (albeit ridiculously frustrating) temporary inconvenience.
They teach some pretty disturbing things already, ever read Poe? The Telltale Heart is one of the tamer things he wrote, though it's one of the most well known.
My personal favorite is The Cask of Amontillado. How f**king disturbing is that? From what I remember (I've only read it once) a guy leads his drunk so-called friend down into the deepest part of the crypts during Carnival, chains him to the wall and proceeds to build a wall around him while the guy has recovered from his drunken stupor and is screaming his head off... Yeah, I read that in school.
Is that ok because it's set in Italy? Hell, there's really not a whole lot in there that places it at any particular time, it could be present day with a few small changes.
Now, I actually can see what they were worried about if it had to do with going someplace and shooting people. But they shouldn't be jumping to conclusions, they should find out the intent of the paper, and possibly get the kid some counseling. Really, the problem here is knee jerk reactions and lack of free health care.
Imagine what could be if people who have issues (fantasizing about killing people, raping little girls and boys, etc) had easy access to free counseling. Even the cheap ones cost $50 - $75 per session, and people who end up doing these things are usually ones who can't afford much, don't have insurance, and really need the good doctors. Yeah, are some ways to get financial assistance from the government but it's extremely difficult and time consuming. Apparently the powers that be don't care about helping these people until they've gone and done something wrong. Then people have already been injured or killed. The people who did it have had a taste of it and are going to need much more serious counseling and they're in an environment which doesn't facilitate recovery. Now, not only are we paying for their counseling, we're paying for their room and board, and they're not even contributing to society (no job). Oh, and I almost forgot: there's always the death penalty instead of counseling, perhaps TPTB like killing people instead of trying to fix the problem (that's what I used to do in Sim City when I couldn't pay for fire departments, just bulldoze all the surrounding stuff and the fire won't spread).
Yeah, our country's system sucks.
It could work the other way, too - a very religious student writes an essay bringing God into an issue, and the teacher is a militant atheist who is offended and has the student arrested. In today's climate, I could see either happening./p
Funny, it was reading Biology texts that convinced me to be a Theist.
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
but it is his direct command to you as a christian.
uh, no, it isn't. It's a command to the Isrealites at that particular time. It is indeed a command to commit what is now known as genocide on all people living in that land at that time, as I acknowledged (but not in so many words) in my previous post. However, since the Torah also contains instructions on protection and provision for non-Israelites travelling through the land, it should not be taken as a statute requiring continual extermination of any non-Israelite in the land. Since I am neither an Israelite nor involved in the original conquest on that land for the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it is certainly not a command to me nor is it my inheritence.
And I'm not sure, but what did the Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, etc ever do? nothing.
Deuteronomy 12: 29-31 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
What did they do? Things including, but not limited to burning their own children to death. I can quite understand why someone might say that genocide will not save the children, but these nations were not doing "nothing wrong". Sometimes in the bible God judged nations rather than individuals. This was one of those times. Presumably those individuals will have the opportunity to be judged on their own merits at the resurrection.
You'll be a lot more intellectually honest (a rarity outside of religion as well, so its not a bash on being religious) if you just admit you don't believe in a lot of what the bible says and have no intention of ever doing it.
Well, I think I have adequately shown that not every command in the bible is a statute (permanent rule) nor is every command or statute necessarily for everyone. This doesn't require special rules of interpretation, just common understanding of language and relationships. If I tell one of my kids to wash the dog, it doesn't automatically become their permanent job, nor an instruction to all my kids to wash the dog.
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