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UK Voters Want To Vote Online

InternetVoting writes "A recent UK research survey by NTL:Telewest Business found that nearly half of the younger respondents would be more likely to vote online. This year the UK government has authorized 13 local election pilots including Internet voting. ntl:Telewest Business estimates 10 million UK households have broadband and 4,789 local libraries offer public access. In the US political parties are beginning to test the Internet voting waters with the Michigan Democratic Party to offer Internet voting in their 2008 Presidential Caucus. There were some notable differences in generational interest: 'The YouGov poll of almost 2,300 people, carried out on behalf of NTL:Telewest's business unit, found that younger voters were even more positive about the idea of alternatives to the trusty ballot box. 57 per cent of 18-34 year olds liked the idea of evoting, but only a third of the over 55s were as keen.' Given security and privacy concerns in the states, how likely is this to appeal to US voters? "

22 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. bah by joe+155 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've never had to walk more than 200m to get to vote - maybe if you can't be bothered to make that effort then your vote shouldn't count...

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    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    1. Re:bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. Most of the people who responded probably couldn't even name one local candidate, let alone tell you who they're going to vote for on May 3rd. Now we're supposed to make it easier for uninformed people to make an uninformed choice, purely because it's supposed to be "more democratic"? I'm fairly certain democracy requires an informed populace; not someone picking the funniest name on a web page while they wait for the film to download from BitTorrent.

      I won't even bother to mention the potential for abuse or security problems. That stuff is just garuanteed with this sort of scheme.

    2. Re:bah by dvice_null · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you think that everyone lives 200 m from a voting point? Or do you think that everyone who doesn't live that near should be able to vote online?

    3. Re:bah by ookabooka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...then your vote shouldn't count...

      I'd be very careful making statements like this, even if it is jest. I don't think anyone's vote should be discounted for any reason. Slippery slope indeed...

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    4. Re:bah by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What if they're under 18?

      This is mildly humorous, but every other class of disenfranchised voter has been until they weren't.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:bah by Ironsides · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Buying something online is not supposed to be anonymous and if something goes wrong it's easy to notice and fix.

      What we're concerned with is, among other ways, someone hacking into the servers and fixing the results. Then there is DDosing the servers and other things. I'm not yet willing to trust voting computers being hooked up to the internet just yet. Dedicated networks, yes. General internet, no.

      --
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  2. How likely? by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Very likely if they can find a company (NOT Diebold) who can manage to make it a secure process. I certainly appreciate all the things that are government related that I can do online now. Voting would be useful. Those that don't want to, or cannot vote online can continue to do so at voting stations. The combination should cover everyone.... IF they can make it secure and keep the graft out of the process.

    1. Re:How likely? by jimicus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      who said the paper ballot system isn't broken? In the U.S. there are plenty of dead people that vote every year. There are plenty of counting issues, and more to the point, polling station shenanigans to prohibit or inhibit whole groups of people from being able to vote easily. This has been the way since very early on in U.S. history, if not before that.

      It's not broken, but there are degrees of brokenness.

      The big advantage with paper ballots is that it's very hard to make a substantial change to the outcome without it being pretty damn obvious to even the most lacksidaisical of officials. The same is simply not true of the "magic black box" which the computerised voting systems in common use are.

  3. Scariest shit i have heard in ages by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Should be like you driving test. If you want it , turn up and fucking do it. The world is not there for your wishful may or may not convenience.

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  4. If it were more open... by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think e-voting can work. As long as the votes are kept totally public then I see it as being viable. It's the only way you can be sure everyone's vote was really counted how it should've been. The moment you start hiding votes and secreting them away you introduce the possibility for corruption from the organizers.

    So, my question is: what's wrong with everyone knowing what everyone else voted? Does it create bias in the workplace? Do Liberal bosses see their Conservative employees votes and thus not give them raises, or worse, in an at-will state such as mine, just fire them outright?

    Is this the kind of person you want to be your boss anyway? Wouldn't the system naturally cleanse itself from people like that? Sure, at first it'd be a bumpy road and a lot of chaos would ensue, but it seems to be the final state of things would be a lot smoother than the state of not even knowing if your vote was counted right, or if the people counting the votes stacked them somehow. It just seems like hiding votes has always been a crutch.

    But please, correct me if I'm wrong...

    TLF

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:If it were more open... by DarkEntity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason you don't want everyone else to know how other people voted is that knowing for sure how someone voted can lead to intimidation, bribery, and the like. Having an open ballot discourages sincere voting by subjecting people to even more peer pressure. As cliché as it might seem, peer pressure really would have a large effect in a thing such as this. Past peer pressure, there is always intimidation. Vote the wrong way and you'll pay. Ya dig?

    2. Re:If it were more open... by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess I'm delusional to think the human race can get along with each other and cooperate despite the fact that some of them may have voted for a different politician. I thought we were beyond that. We're not. Even if the majority of people can get along despite their differences, there will always be a minority who feel differently.

      I personally respect the opinions of my fellow citizens I personally respect the right of my fellow citizens to hold these opinions, but that doesn't mean to say I have to agree with them.

      and I respect their right to vote for whoever they choose. (Repeat previous statement)

      I would hope they extend me the same respect. So would I, but that's not something I'd be willing to take on trust if my job and/or life depended on it.

      Of course, greed will always be a factor. Electing one politician could very easily make or break certain types of organizations. It would definitely raise the degree of partisanship in many companies. And of course that would drive things like intimidation. You assume that losing your job is the worst thing that could happen. As I said above, in some countries, you could lose your life; particularly if the government is hostile. And I don't like the idea of my voting record being open; things could change in the future.

      But I still think eventually it would smooth out and the lines would be drawn more clearly. Unfortunately, they may be drawn in favour of those in power, or those who have greatest power in your local (voting) area, not necessarily in favour of democracy. Again, please excuse me if I don't take this one on trust.

      Most importantly I think the people who endorsed tolerance and understanding and remained non-partisan would be the most successful. Why?

      I think it would be the party hard-liners that would get pushed to the periphery, leaving the rest of (the majority) us sensible folk to actually accomplish something. No offence, but I think you're being overly idealistic. And yes, idealism is okay if it gives you the idea of the way you'd like things to be, but it's a lousy foundation to build a voting system, society, or any "real life" structure upon. That's why communism turns to dictatorship so easily; the idea is built on a fundamentally idealistic view of human nature and will inevitably fall, or be corrupted at the highest level to ensure its continued existence, destroying its stated purpose in the process.

      It's a cliche, but you know the expression about "one bad apple". Perhaps you think I have a somewhat cynical and downbeat view of humanity; well, I probably do, but that's not the problem here. Put simply, there only need to be a relatively small percentage of corrupt, selfish people (basically those with psychopathic or simply selfish behaviour) to subvert and exploit any system which relies on an overly idealistic view of humanity. The "bad apples".

      Until the human race fundamentally changes, these people will always be with us, and I certainly don't intend letting them destroy things.
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  5. Anonymity requires a physical ballot. by Burz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is no satisfactory way around this basic fact.

    Conduct elections online, and you open the process up to massive abuse where anonymity effectively become nullified.

    For audits and recounts, computer forensics aren't nearly up to the abilities of traditional forensics. Physical ballots are why the Florida 2000 problems were so readily apparent.

    Having computers print out physical (human-readable) ballots is fine. But trying to make an electronic "ballot" work anonymously is sheer stupidity.

  6. There is a good reason to retain the voting booth. by geoff+lane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One of the major reasons for a confidential voting process taking place in the voting booth is that it is difficult to intimidate the voter or make vote buying effective. As soon as the vote takes place elsewhere all kinds of influences become possible and almost impossible to detect or prevent.

  7. Re:What difference does it make by Sj0 · · Score: 3

    If you reduce all parties to a single binary choice (Left or right), you'll fail no matter how you vote, and no matter how many choices you have.

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    It's been a long time.
  8. Brilliant by kbox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now we will be able to shop, gamble and decide the fate of our own countries education and healthcare systems from the comfort of our fat sweaty arses.. Let me know when i can download fresh air and i'll never have to leave my house ever again.

  9. Re:There is a good reason to retain the voting boo by Zarhan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Already solved in Estonia. You can vote as many times as you want online, only your latest vote count. So if someone peers over your shoulder making sure you vote right, you can just change your vote as soon as he's gone. Also, by going to the actual physical voting booth you can also override any online votes if all else fails.

  10. Really bad intference here by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because somebody says they're more likely to vote online doesn't mean they want online voting.

    It just means they admit there are times they might vote online when they wouldn't bother to go to the polls. It doesn't mean they think that online voting is better, or as good.

    I've missed a couple elections over the last two decades. They were local elections for offices where I didn't think there was much difference between the candidates, and I was scheduled for business travel. It wasn't worth it to reschedule my trip or get an abstentee ballot. If we voted on line, I'd have voted remotely and I suppose I wouldn't have missed any elections.

    So technically, this article would count me as ready to "embrace" online voting, even though I'd fight the idea tooth an nail if it ever came up. If it was the only way to vote, I'd vote that way. I might, over the course of my life, vote in a half dozen elections that I would otherwise have skipped because they weren't important for me. However, I'd never trust any election result again, including the ones that are important to me.

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  11. Consider this before you *bah* by ushering05401 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of my biggest gripes about elections is how simplified the issues have become, and how difficult it is to understand what each candidate *really* stands for.

    IF they instituted online voting they could have drop down boxes for each candidate with summaries of opinions and hyperlinks to voting records, speeches... Hell, they could even link in the publically disclosed lists of contributors. I believe most voters don't have the time or inclination to do this sort of research on their own, but might be more inclined if the info was more easily accesible.

    A voter could spend all the time they like reading about each candidate and issue on the ballot *while* casting their vote.

    All it would take is some legislation and a bit of funding to amass the linked materials.

    Political spin would have a reduced effect on anyone with enough motivation to click a couple of links.

    Regards.

    1. Re:Consider this before you *bah* by VJ42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      summaries of opinions and hyperlinks to voting records, speeches... If you are in the UK, then I think that this is what you're looking for: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/
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      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    2. Re:Consider this before you *bah* by jimicus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IF they instituted online voting they could have drop down boxes for each candidate with summaries of opinions and hyperlinks to voting records, speeches... Hell, they could even link in the publically disclosed lists of contributors. I believe most voters don't have the time or inclination to do this sort of research on their own, but might be more inclined if the info was more easily accesible.

      The current mechanism of voting in the UK is:

      1. You walk into a small booth, about the size of a telephone box. It's completely open on one side, but the other sides consist of a sheet of board about 7' high.
      2. You draw a cross next to the name of the person you want to vote for.
      3. You fold your ballot paper once and place it in a locked metal box in the middle of the room.

      It would be trivially easy to print out information similar to what you describe and pin it up inside the booth. I suspect the reason why they don't is because if the slightest piece of information that gets put up is wrong, or perhaps somehow unfair to a specific party, then the wronged party would have kittens.

      This isn't a problem which can be solved by adding "... on the Internet!" to the voting procedure. About the most detail they'd be likely to provide would be a link to the party website.

  12. A Bad Idea by Millenniumman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a bad idea, for many reasons.

    For every reason that people oppose electronic voting, this is much worse. The machines aren't even visible to the voter, there is no paper trail at all. It's a black box, but there isn't even a box visible to the voter. You have no idea if your vote was counted correctly.

    Securing the system will be very hard, with tons of people trying to hack it, and being able to do so anonymously and from anywhere in the world.

    People will have to get some kind of password to vote, and will have to register, and at least the former can't be done on the internet. This eliminates the purpose of online voting. I guess you could send everyone a password, though.

    It will open new doors for corruption. There will be no secret ballot at all, and selling your vote will be incredibly easy. As will voter coercion.

    And last, it has no great benefit. If someone is too lazy and/or apathetic to go to the polls to vote, they don't need to be voting.

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