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Treating the Dead

FlyByPC writes "According to a NewsWeek article, oxygen deprivation doesn't kill patients as much as the resumption of oxygen does. This discovery could bring about new ways of resuscitating people whose hearts have stopped."

8 of 246 comments (clear)

  1. Makes a little bit of sense. . . by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember reading somewhere in the last few months (possibly here on /.) that the new preferred version of CPR was 10 compressions to one breath, as opposed to the traditional 3. More compressions = less oxygen. . .

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    1. Re:Makes a little bit of sense. . . by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting
      No - just more blood flow. I heard this from a doctor many years ago when I asked about the number of compressions - what they were taught was to keep things going as fast as you can mangage for as long as you can and just a few breaths. It's just made it into all of the first aid courses recently after working out how long people can keep it going. I beleive people have survived after requiring CPR for many hours (jellyfish sting) so it has to be something two people can keep up indefinately but fast enough to work.

      A few years ago I recall hearing something about people drowning in very cold water and care having to be taken to restore oxygen slowly (Australian ABC Radio Heath Report - Dr Norman Swan), but I don't know what the primary source for that information was.

    2. Re:Makes a little bit of sense. . . by EaglemanBSA · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, it's more oxygen. The idea is that the alveoli can absorb enough oxygen from one breath to last for more compressions than was previously though. Up until about two years ago the accepted practice was 15 compressions/2 breaths, now it's 30 much harder, faster compressions/2 breaths. The idea behind it is to get more blood to flow to the brain and provide more oxygen.

      And in case you've never had to do it, one round of CPR at an actual pace will exhaust you if you do it right. The new methodology is pretty intense.

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  2. Re:Traditional Chinese Medicine Recognizes This by Score+Whore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I agree that traditional Chinese medicine has disagreed with western treatments, I'd be very interested in seeing any kind of supporting documentation that this specific bit of knowledge has been know to Chinese practitioners for any length of time that would be considered long.

  3. Re:I'm continually amazed at by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This reminds me of Freezing Frogs. Basically they fill their cells with glucose, and are actually able to freeze themselves for the entire winter and then wake up in the spring. I remember a radio show where they were saying you could freeze them over and over again, without any adverse effects.

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  4. This makes sense in a lot of ways. by Cadallin · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Trying to chill the body of someone in Cardiac arrest, for example, makes perfect sense. People survive hypothermia, even with after they stop breathing and their heart stops beating, remarkably well. I've read about Russians having used this technique during open heart surgery. They lacked machinery like cardiac pumps, so they cooled the patients down and stopped the heart and breathing, while doing the surgery on a bed of ice. It apparently worked far, far better than our technophile medicine in the USA would lead us to believe.

    It even makes sense to me why sudden resumption of oxygen should be lethal. Oxygen is extremely toxic and aerobic organism, such as ourselves, had to evolve complex cellular machinery in order to utilize it for metabolic efficiency, while keeping the oxygen from damaging cellular structures, especially DNA. The sudden surge in oxygenated blood would probably overload this system. Apoptosis in this case may be a protective step by killing the cell before its DNA becomes damaged and possibly cancerous. Thus, flooding the heart with oxygen causes the whole heart to "take one for the team," and shut down completely.

    The discovery that the cells are still alive, and can be revived with special treatment is extremely encouraging for the development of better techniques.

  5. Re:This was discovered in the US? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This is one of the big arguments against socialized medicine: since you can make $$$ off medicine, lots of people go into medicine to make $$$ and come up with new and interesting stuff. And this cannot be entirely replaced by government funding. And after the companies have made their billions off the drugs, the patents expire, and after a few decades you've got trillions of dollars worth of medical knowledge that you wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. The cost of this? The poor cannot afford the good medicine.

    Other arguments against socialized medicine include: years-long queues for certain sorts of procedures (which aren't strictly Necessary, but may be Incredibly Useful), the sheer cost of paying for it, and a tricky sort of little moral hazard problem with implications against freedom. (Specifically, if the government has to pay for your health care, then a - you're probably less likely to try and take preventative measures to maintain your health since the Government will deal with it and you won't have to pay for it as heavily as you would otherwise; this contributes to a larger problem: b- being unhealthy means more money out of the federal budget, so the government has a big incentive to make unhealthy activity illegals, and the next thing you know, they could be forcing tofu cubes down your throat screaming "it's good for you!!!!!" when all you want is a hamburger, a simple hamburger, for the love of all that is holy - well, figuratively speaking, anyway; you get the idea.)

    The unarguable fact that's in support of socialized medicine is "it will make certain peoples' lives better". It will also probably make people's lives worse - rich people, healthy people who pay taxes, and Future people. For typical middle-class people, it's less than clear.

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  6. Re:I'm continually amazed at by raddan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've put a similar principle in practice with yeast cultures (I am a homebrewer). I don't recall the exact ratio off the top of my head, but if you replace some of the water in a yeast slurry with glycerin, you can safely freeze yeast cultures for a long time. This is very useful to me, since certain beers are seasonal (like Belgian Wit), and in order to maintain the yeast's viability, I would otherwise have to brew this beer regularly, or buy the yeast from a store, which can get expensive (~$7 a vial). The glycerin prevents the yeast's cell walls from bursting due to the crystallization of the freezing water. I am not a chemist, so I have no idea how this actually works, I just know it does.

    Unfortunately, my girlfriend doesn't share my enthusiasm for frozen fungus, so our freezer has more room devoted to more mundane things, like frozen vegetables and animals.