Microsoft Details FOSS Patent Breaches

CptRevelation writes "Microsoft has released more detailed information on the patents supposedly in breach by the open-source community. Despite their accusations of infringement, they state they would rather do licensing deals instead of any legal action. 'Open-source programs step on 235 Microsoft patents, the company said. Free Linux software violates 42 patents. Graphical user interfaces, the way menus and windows look on the screen, breach 65. E-mail programs step on 15, and other programs touch 68 other patents, the company said. The patent figures were first reported by Fortune magazine. Microsoft also said Open Office, an open-source program supported in part by Sun Microsystems Inc., infringes on 45 patents. Sun declined to comment on the allegation.'"

Comments

No new details

[NakNomik]

This is still old news. There are no new details in this article that were not already present in the one Slashdot reported on Sunday (the CNN Money article, http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_arc hive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm?section=money_ latest)

Re:Oh microsoft

[Kadin2048]

It doesn't matter if they invented it, only if they patented it. Which is what's wrong with the whole system.

Not true. The U.S. patent system is based on a "first to invent" doctrine, not "first to file."

Applying for a patent often serves as proof that you had indeed invented something at a certain time (at least the filing date), and creates a bit of a barrier for someone else to prove that they invented it earlier (since they'd need to conclusively demonstrate that they had done it before you had), but it's not unheard of or even especially uncommon historically.

That's the whole idea behind 'prior art' in the U.S.: if you can demonstrate that you, or somebody else, had invented something and published it before the person who got the patent for it did, then the patent can be ruled invalid.

There are some (IMO, really poorly thought-out) proposals that would change the U.S. system to a "first to file" one, which is more common throughout the rest of the world, but it hasn't happened yet.

Re:First to file

[LionMage]

first to file is the rule

Not in the United States. In the U.S., first-to-invent is the rule, not first-to-file.

Short answer: yes

[Mateo_LeFou]

MS has 155 patents with the word "User Interface" in the title. Have a look:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-b ool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=Microsoft&FIELD1=ASNM& co1=AND&TERM2=user+interface&FIELD2=TI&d=PTXT

What sucks is that yesterday they only had 151...

It's called the doctrine of laches

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/l056.htm

LACHES, DOCTRINE OF - Based on the maxim that equity aids the vigilant and not those who procrastinate regarding their rights; Neglect to assert a right or claim that, together with lapse of time and other circumstances, prejudices an adverse party. Neglecting to do what should or could, have been done to assert a claim or right for an unreasonable and unjustified time causing disadvantage to another.

Laches is similar to 'statute of limitations'

Further reading

[Kadin2048]

Probably relevant articles:

Apple Inc. v. Microsoft Corp., 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994), aka the "Look and Feel case" on Wikipedia, and the actual ruling by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

The MIT AI Lab has a fairly good introduction to the basis for the current U.S. software IP system, including what elements are typically protected by copyright and which by patents. (Basically: "Expression" = copyright; "idea/implementation" = patent, "concept" = (hopefully) neither.)

Re:What about PR?

[nizo]

Why Microsoft won't name the patents, straight from the horse's mouth (go here for the blog article):

The question I anticipate that most readers will want to ask (and that isn't really answered in the feature story) is: Why doesn't Microsoft identify the specific patents and explain what specific aspects of free software infringe them. I did ask Gutierrez that question, and here was his answer: "We do. But in private conversations in the process of licensing discussions with companies that are looking in good faith for ways of resolving the situation." In those contexts, he says, "we walk through a number of exemplary patents and go as deep as they want us to go. Our experience has been every time we've done that, it doesn't take companies a long time to figure out that there is an issue here."

Why won't he do the same thing in public? "There are a number of legal reasons why companies don't do that. No company does that. IBM (IBM) doesn't do that. HP (HPQ) doesn't. Fujitsu (FJTSY.PK) doesn't. For a number of practical reasons. Once you've made that statement from a public perspective, anybody in the world can go to court and ask for a declaratory judgment. That would spur potentially hundreds or thousands of lawsuits around the world, or reexaminations of patents around the world. Even if they're perfectly good patents, it would create an administrative nightmare."