High Paying Jobs in Math and Science?

An anonymous reader asks: "Where are the high paying jobs for those who are good in math and science? I've heard about math and science shortages for almost two decades now, and I was wondering what high salary/high demand jobs have resulted from these shortages. Most science majors I know actually make less than teachers (in Texas teachers make $38-40K to start for nine months of work). In terms of money, what career would you pursue coming out of college right now with a math or science degree?"

Comments

For math...

[blahplusplus]

... Actuary (insurance, etc)

Re:For math...

[champsuperstar]

Actually... Starting pay for a high school math teacher is $39,190 for a (technical) 187-day base salary. Hourly, Texas (in this case, Austin) teachers are paid $18 and some change. That's based on a 2080 hour work year, which, of course, breaks down into 40 hour work weeks. This is the disparity in the starting salary/187 day work year myth. Most teachers average around 14 hour days during the school year. They show up for work at 7 and then usually stay until 5 or 6, depending on their sponsored clubs, activities, et al. AND still have to go home and grade papers, prepare lessons, meet with the administration. Even based on a 187-day work schedule, that's roughly 2600 hours. AND they must still work during the summer. These are workshops, conferences, lectures, meetings, etc. Most teachers I worked with (around 300 high school and middle school) had about 2 paid weeks off during the summer altogether. Granted, the days were shorter, but remember we're still past the "average" 2080-hour work year. The average teacher summer is about 10 weeks. Even based on a truncated work week (say 30 hours), the work year hits around 2850. Break that down and it comes out to $13/hour. Don't forget that teachers quite often must pay for materials for special out of their own pockets without guarantee of reimbursement. Teachers don't make that much. That being said, we need good math and science teachers. You'll just have to eat Ramen noodles, drive a beater and take abuse from smarty pants teenagers AND their parents for the first 10 or 12 years.

I could not disagree more

[anomaly]

The challenge is that the current generation of college students and recent graduates has been led to believe that they are entitled to a life filled with stuff and with little self-sacrifice required.

If *everyone* would learn to adjust their expectations about what constitutes a minimal acceptable standard of living so that they can live without debt within or - gasp - below their means - our culture would be wealthier, stronger, and better equipped to face challenges.

My next door neighbors are first generation immigrants from El Salvador. They have a three bedroom house which the two parents, three kids, his dad, her mom, share the house with two renters who live in the basement. 9 people in a 1700 square foot house! This is in one of the wealthiest counties in the States. The mom and dad have two jobs. The grandmother has a job, and the dad has occasional work on a third job. These are people who have little education and very poor English skills. They are thrilled to have the opportunity to live in this country, and they are making it happen. It's tough going, but a better deal than in Central America, and they consider it a privilege to have American citizenship. Perhaps we should, too.

Most of these college kids could live at home, have a part time job, enroll in community college for core credits, before transferring to a 4 year college, drastically cutting their tuition. They could refuse to allow themselves to spend more on their credit card than they can pay in a given month. They could live off-campus with several roommates to minimize housing costs. They could forego cable, cell phones and cars to reduce their expenses until their income increases.

Instead, our culture of consumption tells people that they should "buy it now." People actually think that they cannot expect to pay off a car or a house within their lifetime. Ridiculous!

We're generally narcissistic and convinced that stuff, power, or sex will satisfy us. This leads to frustration, deeper debt, and hopelessness.

It's not that life is hard and these kids are victims! It's that mostly they think that they have to obtain a standard of living that is higher than their income, and they become indentured servants at 20%/year interest.

Re:Nine months... what?

[Overzeetop]

The great teachers put in the extra time. Most of the teachers don't do any more time during the school year than your typical "40 hour" salaried employee. And, for the record, I think they technically 10 month employees, since they are often required to be in school the week before and (sometimes after) the academic year.

Most teachers, esp. those whohave never done anything else, don't realize that most salaried workers work more than 40 hours for their paychecks, and often see about 15-20 days of total leave.
Most non-teachers don't understand that for most of the day, a teacher is "on" and teaching requires more "quality" work time during those 4.5-6 hours than your typical cube drone in the same span of time.

Me? I don't work for the Man, I am the Man. When I don't come in to work, I don't get paid. If I take vacation, I don't get paid. If I don't do my job completely, I don't get paid. I don't get health insurance, retirement benefits, disability, or any other perk unless I pay for it. I have to pay for my annual training twice - once for the training, and again in the time that I'm not able to bill clients. I work about 50 hours a week (plus /. time, of course - it's my watercooler) - when I'm not under a real crunch, though I find that trying to get in more the 60 hours is pretty wasted time. I used to be a company guy, and I've done some side teaching (not much, and not k-12). I don't do well with other people's schedules, so I work for myself. I couldn't deal with 30 adolescents every day, and I don't know a k-12 teacher who can design a seismic moment resisting frame.

Teachers actually get paid similarly what someone in industry with similar "ability" would get paid, on an annual basis, but they do have a lot more free time. If they choose to spend that free time on their classes and their career, that's their choice for the most part. Every discipline has people who like what they do, and part of that time is rightfully considered "hobby", not paid service. The trick is finding that person to work for you, or be your teacher, or provide you with their service.

Re:Teachers

[Mathonwy]

Sorry, but had to bring something up here:

Show me a teacher who only puts in the hours 8-4, and I'll show you a teacher that the administration feels "isn't putting in the effort", and "is only doing the minimum needed to get by".

And the thing is, they're right. 8-4 is just the time they are required to be AT SCHOOL, in the room. Any teacher worth their salt spends plenty of extra time making sure that their lessons are prepared for the next day (or week) and that they are generally ready for anything the class can throw at them. Teaching doesn't just "happen"; it requires a tremendous amount of prep and organizational work.

Also, the vacation is lengthy, but fairly inflexible. Hope you don't want to take any time off OTHER than what the district says, or you've got some problems. Want to take a month off in March instead? Too bad! It's definitely a trade off.

Don't get me wrong, the vacation time is nice, but it has its flip side, and if you think it's a 40 hour a week job, you're deluding yourself. (Or talking about the crappy teachers who DO deserve the low end.)

Which brings us to...
"but why should experienced teachers get more money than the new teachers. They are doing the same job"

Erm.

EXCUSE ME?

Let me turn it around, and see if I can point out just a little bit of hubris on your part. Why should an experienced software developer get more money than a new one? They're doing the same job? Why should an experienced ANYONE get more money?

Answer: Because they do it better. Because years of experience mean that they will generally be more efficient at whatever the job is, do it better, with fewer errors, and have more bandwith to deal with more things. They will also have the experience to deal with the stranger situations that pop up, and will generally require less supervision and be more valuable employees. If you somehow think that this doesn't apply to teachers just as much as it applies to anyone else, then you have a very distorted view of teaching.

Re:The one you like

[CastrTroy]

You have pretty high standards for what constitutes living comfortably. Many people are never able to buy a house, nor are they able to pay for their children's education. My parents didn't pay for my education, and I was able to get one. It's great to be able to finance your child's education, but that is a luxury. Like I said, 30 K is quite enough money, especially as a starting salary. If you don't think so, you need to re-evaluate your priorities. Also, your calculations are off, because you aren't considering that there's a second person making money in the family. While some people still have the wife stay home, the vast majority of families have both parents working. So, your 600K becomes 1.2 Million. Just as a reference point, I'm currently making $45,000 a year, and my wife isn't working, because she stays home and looks after the kids. I have no problem paying the bills, and actually have quite a bit of money left over at the end of each month. And we are still paying off our student loans (Total $300 a month). In 3 years, I'll have enough saved up for a down payment and I'll be able to buy a house.

Re:The one you like

[Lord Ender]

In terms of money, what career would you pursue coming out of college right now with a math or science degree?

The one you're most interested in. Seriously, if all you care about is money, go be an investment banker or a money whore somewhere else.

The only way anyone will ever truly be able to do "what they love" is by first being a "money whore" (or being born rich).

No man has true freedom unless his passive income exceeds his living expenses. Only once you reach this level of freedom (which corresponds to having about $800k well-invested in most of the USA), can you really do whatever the hell you are truly passionate about, with no compromises.

The quickest way to get there, for most people, is to get a college degree in a field with high market value, live cheap, and invest everything you can in revenue-generating business that you don't have to manage (so you can keep working on what you specialize in). ETFs (like DIA) make this REALLY easy to do. If you can stomach extra volatility, leveraged ETFs (like DDM) could greatly shorten the time it takes for you to be be a self-made trust-fund baby (er... middle aged person).

Advice of "do whatever you're most interested in [regardless of pay]" sounds nice, and may be more fun in the short term, but it is much less likely to bring you true freedom than being a "money whore."

When you can live off of your investments, you can change jobs, contracts, and careers at will. Otherwise, you will be filling out TPS reports, all-the-while chained to your current job for the ability to feed yourself and afford medical care.