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High Paying Jobs in Math and Science?
An anonymous reader asks: "Where are the high paying jobs for those who are good in math and science? I've heard about math and science shortages for almost two decades now, and I was wondering what high salary/high demand jobs have resulted from these shortages. Most science majors I know actually make less than teachers (in Texas teachers make $38-40K to start for nine months of work). In terms of money, what career would you pursue coming out of college right now with a math or science degree?"
... Actuary (insurance, etc)
The one you're most interested in. Seriously, if all you care about is money, go be an investment banker or a money whore somewhere else. Our field is littered with people like you who get a job hoping for big bucks but end up circling the drain for a few years while producing horrible work.
However, software engineers at the various consultancies pay fairly well. Perhaps the R&D arm of a pharmaceutical company as well.
Any related to economics. So, things like an actuary or something related to the stock market (e.g. analysis/prediction) would give high pay. Degrees in Physics and Math could get you there.
:)
There is also several consulting firms that *love* Physics Ph.D.'s. Not sure about Math people on that one though. This one would require *a lot* of travel though.
Hope that helps
I'm a scientist working for a government subcontractor in Albuquerque (mostly for Sanida Labs and AFRL). Fresh out of school with a Bachelor's and Master's Degree in Physics I started making $50K a year plus fringe benefits. To contrast, starting teachers salaries with a Master's degree are ~$30K a year.
Best paid job for those good with science and math is hedge fund manager. Top earners make $2,000,000,000 or more annually. As a bonus, you don't have to pay regular income tax on your pay. Good luck in your new career!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._E._Shaw_&_Co.
You'd make good money as a chemical engineer or petroleum engineer. This claims $55-$100k depending on experience. Petroleum engineers also make good money.
One nice thing about the job is you get to work with huge cool dangerous equipment. If you work for the right company in the right capacity you might even contribute to solving some important problems, like petroleum dependency.
Man, you really need that seminar!
There is no shortage of math and science majors. I'm nearing completion of a PhD in science, and if I could go back 6 years, I would go to law school instead. Yes, there is a shortage of brilliant scientists and mathematicians because hey, our economy depends on innovation that comes from the elite few. Science and math jobs? Maybe you can call engineering jobs related to science and math and of course corporations don't want there to be demand of engineering students because that would drive up salaries.
Anytime I see American corporations complaining about the need to outsource labor due to a "shortage of qualified American workers" it makes me laugh to myself. It is absolutely hilarious how the same corporations who ceaselessly discuss the virtues of an open market suddenly revert when it comes to the issue of paying high enough salaries to attract qualified candidates.
The talent is always going to go where the money is. If the serious money was in math and science (instead of finance and business) then the brightest young Americans would be pursuing careers in math and science.
Get an MBA, then do something in the financial industry, which has a stranglehold on everything else to the extent of destroying progress. American corporations and government no longer care for education or REAL progress, unless it can make a buck, and even then aren't willing to reward the people who actually create that progress.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Applied math is a good bet. Operations Research ("OR"), as Wikipedia defines it, is "an interdisciplinary science which uses scientific methods like mathematical modeling, statistics, and algorithms to decision making in complex real-world problems which are concerned with coordination and execution of the operations within an organization." It's a mixture of math, stats, CS, and engineering.
There's OR applications in areas such as health-care, environmental management, forestry management, transportation, and much more. Environmental management, in particular, is something that operations research is going to play a huge role as government and industry focus on reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
And because there's such a practical role towards it, there's plenty of support from government and industry, not just in terms of jobs at the end but also scholarships, fellowships, etc. Ask around a math, CS, or engineering department! I'm sure it won't be hard to find someone who can point you in the right direction.
I'm finishing my PhD in computational mathematics in about a month, so I've been doing a huge job search right now.
.. thats with a PhD though) and there is nothing quite like the freedom you get from an academic job.
Some of the best non-academic jobs out there for math/science are government or government contractors. Obviously, the NSA is a huge one. There are many other national labs and research institutes. Sanida, LLNL, NSWC, etc. Pay is good (not actuary good, but good) and benefits are very good. The added plus is you work a 40 hr week. With a masters, I think you can start between 50-60K. That beats starting at 70-80K in finance and working twice as much... but that's just my feeling.
On the other side, there are government contractors. Metron, SAIC are two big ones. There are numerous smaller ones. These will have slightly higher pay, and some retirement plans at them are really fantastic. The downside is that some smaller ones rely heavily on one specific type of research.
The other thing I've noticed in my job search is that, not to insult engineers, but many companies feel that if you know the math/science, you can learn the engineering quickly. If you have some basic experience in, say, math application in petroleum engineering, then Exxon would love to talk with you.
That being said, I'm staying in academia and doing a post-doc next year. Pay is okay (55K
Good luck to any of you who decide to go into math/science. The US REALLY needs good scientists!
...then you are overpriced for the market.
Here's the test: can you go out and form your own company and make more than you are being offered? If you cannot, then you've just discovered why somebody else doesn't want to hire you for that kind of money. Stop thinking about it as how much you are "worth" because of your educational expenditures, and start looking at the income you can reliably, continuously produce for your company. Once you have that number, divide it by three* and that's what your salary should be.
*okay, maybe two in a really large organization with low overhead, or if you fall at the very low or high ends of the payscale. But you're unlikely to be in either of the high/low paid cases.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The challenge is that the current generation of college students and recent graduates has been led to believe that they are entitled to a life filled with stuff and with little self-sacrifice required.
If *everyone* would learn to adjust their expectations about what constitutes a minimal acceptable standard of living so that they can live without debt within or - gasp - below their means - our culture would be wealthier, stronger, and better equipped to face challenges.
My next door neighbors are first generation immigrants from El Salvador. They have a three bedroom house which the two parents, three kids, his dad, her mom, share the house with two renters who live in the basement. 9 people in a 1700 square foot house! This is in one of the wealthiest counties in the States. The mom and dad have two jobs. The grandmother has a job, and the dad has occasional work on a third job. These are people who have little education and very poor English skills. They are thrilled to have the opportunity to live in this country, and they are making it happen. It's tough going, but a better deal than in Central America, and they consider it a privilege to have American citizenship. Perhaps we should, too.
Most of these college kids could live at home, have a part time job, enroll in community college for core credits, before transferring to a 4 year college, drastically cutting their tuition. They could refuse to allow themselves to spend more on their credit card than they can pay in a given month. They could live off-campus with several roommates to minimize housing costs. They could forego cable, cell phones and cars to reduce their expenses until their income increases.
Instead, our culture of consumption tells people that they should "buy it now." People actually think that they cannot expect to pay off a car or a house within their lifetime. Ridiculous!
We're generally narcissistic and convinced that stuff, power, or sex will satisfy us. This leads to frustration, deeper debt, and hopelessness.
It's not that life is hard and these kids are victims! It's that mostly they think that they have to obtain a standard of living that is higher than their income, and they become indentured servants at 20%/year interest.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
The great teachers put in the extra time. Most of the teachers don't do any more time during the school year than your typical "40 hour" salaried employee. And, for the record, I think they technically 10 month employees, since they are often required to be in school the week before and (sometimes after) the academic year.
/. time, of course - it's my watercooler) - when I'm not under a real crunch, though I find that trying to get in more the 60 hours is pretty wasted time. I used to be a company guy, and I've done some side teaching (not much, and not k-12). I don't do well with other people's schedules, so I work for myself. I couldn't deal with 30 adolescents every day, and I don't know a k-12 teacher who can design a seismic moment resisting frame.
Most teachers, esp. those whohave never done anything else, don't realize that most salaried workers work more than 40 hours for their paychecks, and often see about 15-20 days of total leave.
Most non-teachers don't understand that for most of the day, a teacher is "on" and teaching requires more "quality" work time during those 4.5-6 hours than your typical cube drone in the same span of time.
Me? I don't work for the Man, I am the Man. When I don't come in to work, I don't get paid. If I take vacation, I don't get paid. If I don't do my job completely, I don't get paid. I don't get health insurance, retirement benefits, disability, or any other perk unless I pay for it. I have to pay for my annual training twice - once for the training, and again in the time that I'm not able to bill clients. I work about 50 hours a week (plus
Teachers actually get paid similarly what someone in industry with similar "ability" would get paid, on an annual basis, but they do have a lot more free time. If they choose to spend that free time on their classes and their career, that's their choice for the most part. Every discipline has people who like what they do, and part of that time is rightfully considered "hobby", not paid service. The trick is finding that person to work for you, or be your teacher, or provide you with their service.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Sorry, but had to bring something up here:
Show me a teacher who only puts in the hours 8-4, and I'll show you a teacher that the administration feels "isn't putting in the effort", and "is only doing the minimum needed to get by".
And the thing is, they're right. 8-4 is just the time they are required to be AT SCHOOL, in the room. Any teacher worth their salt spends plenty of extra time making sure that their lessons are prepared for the next day (or week) and that they are generally ready for anything the class can throw at them. Teaching doesn't just "happen"; it requires a tremendous amount of prep and organizational work.
Also, the vacation is lengthy, but fairly inflexible. Hope you don't want to take any time off OTHER than what the district says, or you've got some problems. Want to take a month off in March instead? Too bad! It's definitely a trade off.
Don't get me wrong, the vacation time is nice, but it has its flip side, and if you think it's a 40 hour a week job, you're deluding yourself. (Or talking about the crappy teachers who DO deserve the low end.)
Which brings us to...
"but why should experienced teachers get more money than the new teachers. They are doing the same job"
Erm.
EXCUSE ME?
Let me turn it around, and see if I can point out just a little bit of hubris on your part. Why should an experienced software developer get more money than a new one? They're doing the same job? Why should an experienced ANYONE get more money?
Answer: Because they do it better. Because years of experience mean that they will generally be more efficient at whatever the job is, do it better, with fewer errors, and have more bandwith to deal with more things. They will also have the experience to deal with the stranger situations that pop up, and will generally require less supervision and be more valuable employees. If you somehow think that this doesn't apply to teachers just as much as it applies to anyone else, then you have a very distorted view of teaching.
Not only is the vacation fairly inflexible, it's not always what other people think of as vacation. As someone who works for a school district, many of the teachers I know have to get summer jobs to pay the bills. Also, in order to keep my job and my certification, I'm required to take so many college credits every few years and I have to pay for it out of pocket. As for a job you can get "right out of college," many places now require a degree beyond a B.A. to be hired or to keep your job beyond a certain number of years.
For me and other people in my school, we are required to be at school from 8-4. However, we also run programs before and after school, often unpaid. During athletics, I might spend another 15 or 20 hours on the weekend supervising the student store. I coach Academic Decathlon for a stipend of $500 per YEAR. I run a peer suicide intervention program that also earns me a stipend, another whole $600 per year. Students often call my home or show up at my door at all hours. I tutor, I meet with parents, I run evening workshops to help students write college essays and do their FAFSA. That doesn't include grading or lesson planning or report cards or any of the million things that have to be done.
Last week was my last week of school and this week, I'm working at the district office for a week, revising curriculum so that it will work better for our students. I considered getting a summer job, but instead I have to go to school to take classes so I can keep my certification. I'll finish school the week before my fall inservice. In addition to specific college classes I have to take, I have to do yearly trainings on the weekend on topics like Fetal Alcohol Effect, Domestic Violence, and First Aid/CPR.
I don't mind doing a job where I make less money than I would somewhere else, because I made a conscious decision to leave my tech job and take a job in education. I do however mind being told how easy my job is, and how great the hours are, and how well I'm paid. I'm also tired of people who think I must not have been able to get a "real" job and that's why I got an education degree.
...has a master's degree in Science!
Investment banking is not about math. It's about Andover, Exeter, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, yachting, golfing, playing squash and knowing which years were good in Graves vs. Medoc. It's a salesman's game. Same with law. If you want to be one of the rich lawyers, you must be a salesman. The lawyers who are not salesmen do not make partner and see the 7-figure annual distribution checks.
If you enjoy math for the sake of doing math, you're going to want to look into physics, cosmology, astronomy etc...and you're going to be looking at PhD to get employment. There's only so many jobs in these fields and there are more PhD's than jobs, so why hire anyone without a PhD? Don't go there unless you really love math and you're more talented than 90% of the math majors.
If you want to work in science, you've got chemistry which is revived as nano-this and nano-that, biology which is really genetics or molecular biology for big pharma, and you've got computer science, robotics, and the various engineering disciplines. If you want to get somewhere with a BS, you'll probably do better in engineering and CS.
If you like talking to people, solving puzzles, or cutting meat, go to medical school.
If you want to really make money, start a business. No college required. Just a good idea, ability to sell, ability to execute, courage and persistence. The good idea is the easiest part.
My brother majored in mathematics at a top school. He minored in philosophy. He had a 3.75 GPA. After getting his BA, he could have gone the teacher route, the professor route or into defense contracting. Instead, he chose to work in housekeeping at the lodge on the north rim of the Grand Canyon. 15 years later, he manages a $15 million unit of a billion dollar business with a couple of hundred employees reporting to him. The most direct route isn't always the most rewarding.
As lots of people are saying 'become a Quant' - I thought you might like a Quant to tell you about it -
There are many kinds of Quant, this is what some of them do, but it's not exhaustive -
1) Desk Quant - help traders understand trading issues on a day-to-day basis. Rapid application development (probably on Excel/VBA/C#), quick/pragmatic thinking are essential skills here.
2) Analytical Developer - less math (still got to understand it though), more programming (exceptional skills). Development of analytics libraries - probably implementing/optimising/enhancing ideas that a Desk Quant or Modeller has developed for the desk. Much more 'backroom', but not as well paid.
3) Quant Modeller - concentrate on developing new model ideas, and requires very very very good maths skills. What most people mean when they talk about 'a Quant'. Make a packet of cash if they develop something useful (before the rest of the market does).
What do I do? I'm mostly 1 and 2 in Equity Exotics at a US bank. I'm well paid and love my job. It's very hard work, but that's what you get paid for! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Make sure you study stochastic calculus in your degree (Math/Physics/CompSci). Do the degree to an advanced level at a good school (get at least a Masters or Phd). You should at least know what Black-Scholes is and how to derive it. Don't be scared to apply - those who don't ask, don't get.
There are many other things to consider - what asset class you would like to work in - Equities, Credit, Energy, FX, Commodities, Rates... or which area - Risk, Trading, Research, etc., Each has different emphasis on skills, different requirements of computing and math skills. My bank lets Quants move between asset classes and job emphasis, I don't think this is universal though.