Novell Partners With EFF on Patent Busting

Seymour writes "Novell and the EFF have announced that Novell will be contributing to the EFF's Patent Busting Project. Novell will also support the EFF's efforts toward patent reform, including with the WIPO. Could this be Novell trying to get back in the good graces of Linux users? 'Novell's agreement with Microsoft has been a source of contention within open source circles, with one Red Hat executive accusing the company of appeasing Microsoft; others have accused Novell of violating the GPL with the agreement. Either way, signing the deal with Microsoft did a lot to sully Novell in the eyes of many Linux users, and Novell's decision to link up with the EFF on patents may have been made with an eye towards getting some of its street cred back with the OSS community.'"

Comments

Doesn't really work like that

[26199]

For me, at least, there aren't any second chances. The great thing about the Linux market is there's plenty of choice. Why choose Novell now?

I won't be.

(Same idea behind not buying Sony ever again.)

Re:Doesn't really work like that

[physicsphairy]

Why choose Novell now?

Because it is based on that expectation that their actions were pursued, and if you do not reward companies which make these 'selfless' maneuvers on behalf of open source, then none will. It's the same as eeking linux loaded comps out of Dell, in regard to which numerous persons have commented on the necessity of now purchasing these comps to validate the move.

Now, I've never used SuSE, and don't really plan to, and I'm not saying everyone should now jump ship to Novell in servile gratitude. But I do think it's fair for us to tender some rescinding of animosity in regard to Novell's previous patent deal--for those persons who were upset about it--or elsewise indicate appreciation of their latest move.

Why shouldn't we be nice to people who are nice to us?

Re:Doesn't really work like that

[oztiks]

If thats the case we would of seen similar reactions from Redhat or another enterprising companies that "sell" Linux. The way I see it if a smoker is to sue the tobacco companies for their own bad health, it opens the door for anyone else who smokes also to sue them as well.

I think in this case it would be exactly the same. Do unto Novell what you'd expect happen to your own company, with the recent adoption of Linux to Dell and the lacking of what is and what is to come i.e "Windows Vista" this is just yet another part of this constant struggle of playing the right tricks to make the most easy cash possible.

This whole coupon deal was just that, lets see, umm ... Microsoft threatens to sue Linux users, Microsoft finds a way to screw a distribution of Linux whose maintained by a company that needs Microsoft support in other product lines. Redhat you see doesn't need Windows where as Novell really does, just like Norton needs Windows but is also getting screwed with the same sort of tactics. After Microsoft finds this way to screw Novell and make that easy cash, they publicly announce (because they know they cant win) that they are NOT going to sue anybody for using Linux any time soon.

So what would you expect? Novel is like F**k what did we do? a) We pissed off a pile of people / businesses that use our product (or did) b) had a pile of our customers purchase something they didn't need c) worked directly with Satan himself, then bastard ran off with our soul and we look like a pile of D**ks to everybody now so lets go into repair mode PR style and see what we can do about cleaning up the mess.

Re:Doesn't really work like that

[houghi]

Don't forget to take out any code put in the kernel, KDE and GNOME and other projects made by people that are payed by Novell. Put your money where your mouth is.

Same Old Story - With a Different Beat

[Bob9113]

Husband sleeps with his secretary. Wife finds out. He buys her a Tiffany's bracelet. For some wives it's the bracelet that matters. For some it's the remorse (or lack thereof). For some there is no uncheating. Same story here.

Patent Busting eh

[mastershake_phd]

Patent Busting? That sounds like a business model. I bet you could patent that....

Oblig

[phalse phace]

Billg: Novell partnering with EFF? That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft.

The proof of the pudding...

[HiThere]

Novell isn't yet, quite, in my list of totally untrustworthy companies. They seem determined to get there, but for now I'm willing to not condemn this move before I see the results. For now.

This doesn't mean that I'm willing to use or recommend Novell software. That appears wantonly reckless. Perhaps *AFTER* I seen the agreement with MS, and decide whether the redacted parts might be larger than a couple of words, and get some reactions from independant lawyers. Perhaps after that I'll be more willing to trust them. Maybe. And maybe just the opposite. The weasel words so far used in public commentaries don't inspire any confidence at all. They're rather like the MS pledge that "We don't currently have any plans to sue...". They could change their mind at any minute, and they aren't obligating themselves to give any warning. And there could exist plans right now that this spokes-thing just doesn't know about, possibly on purpose. Novell seems to aim more towards incoherence than ambiguity, but the effect is the same. The promises appear worthless, and certainly not legally binding. (And if a corporation is carefully insuring that its public statements aren't legally binding, what does that imply about its trustworthiness?)

Well, possibly these were off-the-cuff remarks, and not carefully thought out. Possibly. But they have explicitly refrained from making any carefully thought out statements that address the topic...unless they were so vague as to be worthless. (Or unless they were statements about how someone else would behave, which they obviously can't be responsible for.)

We'll see what gets published about the MS-Novell deal, and we'll see how this quest for "patent reform" works out. Perhaps after those resolve we'll decide that Novell was merely clumsy about what they did and were misunderstood. Possibly. Until then, however... well, Safety First. And that means avoiding Novell, as well as MS.

They should be in our good graces...

[dteichman2]

Novell worked out a deal with Microsoft. Novell got a big bucket-o-cash, and Microsoft got what still seems to amount to nothing.

Now with this, it seems like two things are true.

1.) Novell costs Microsoft money.
2.) Novell actively works against Microsoft.

Awesome

Re:They should be in our good graces...

[apokryphos]

That's nonsense. Novell have made it explicitly clear, and since they have, the only thing it possibly does is make Microsoft look silly (as they regularly do). Although you clearly don't want to admit it, this deal has been very beneficial for Novell (and, in turn, Linux), and it's hardly like Microsoft have used the deal to begin their campaign on Linux infringing on MS's patents -- that has always (ALWAYS) been around.

> if they knew how the deal would likely be perceived in practice, such a statement is likely to be meaningless or just legal ass-covering.

The only people who perceive it that way are some Microsoft speakers and a few clueless people in the Linux community. I haven't seen any indication anywhere else to suggest otherwise.

The reason 99% of the people (and, I know this from direct experience) in the Linux community are annoyed about this is because there's some (as usual) very vocal poisonous people in the community who spute out countless of erroneous negative headlines without even knowing what's going on. Others in the community see these headlines, think the headlines alone are evidence, and don't even consider the matter. I mean, the amount of people I've seen who think that Novell have some immunity from Microsoft (completely false), or the amount of people I've seen who think that countless of people have left Novell because of this (when only two have permanently left), or the amount of people who think that Novell is losing money from this (when they're getting a few hundred million), or the amount of people who have no clue about Novell's hundreds of Linux engineers in the open source community (KDE, GNOME, Linux kernel, OpenOffice.org, etc), is always astounding.

It's an unfortunate simple fact: people like fighting for a cause when the ideal (freedom) is good, even when there's no threat to it or they're ignorant of who the enemy is.

This headline is nothing new from Novell (I mean, they're an OIN founding member), but people will still interpret it in a silly way.

Re:They should be in our good graces...

[apokryphos]

> JUST WHY DO NOVELL CUSTOMERS NEED PROTECTING FROM "MICROSOFT IP" BY THIS COVENANT NOT TO SUE?

This has been answered countless times. Personally, I think Andreas Jaeger said it best: Let me state clearly: We do not think that Novell's Linux distributions violate valid patents - but if they do, we do change the code to avoid or work around the patent. Meanwhile we have some means in place to protect customers and developers better. So, it's some kind of important insurance.

We did not expect that Microsoft would sue individuals. But who would have known a couple of years ago that the record industry is going after individuals downloading or copying music and driving them in bankruptcy. Therefore the agreements consider a promise not to sue.

The meaning is clear: customers want the extra assurance. When you've got billions of dollars, you cannot avoid so many risks, you become a big target. This is why Microsoft customers asked for the protection from Novell as well, of not being sued.

Mythbusters...

[hoojus]

They could make a show called Patent busters where they could test patents and mark them as Plausible, Prior Art or Laughable. Then to keep in the spirit of Mythbusters they could use explosions by blowing up the companies that try to sue based on Prior art or laughable patents.

KOL novell

[steveoc]

You have encountered an Horned Novell
 
`O'
/|\
  | [MScontract(tm)]
/ \
| |
 
He takes you by surprise and tries to Pimp slap you with his MSContract (tm)

Novell's attempts to work with the EFF are all well and good, but really .. for as long as there remains any ink on any deal with Microsoft's name on it:

An exploiter is you.

Novell may have gained many meat from this deal, but the loss of moxiousness is overwhelming. Until Novell clicks on the unequip link to the MScontract(tm) in their inventory, they will continue to suffer a permanent drain to their Moxie. No amount of practicing the accordian will ever be able to put this right.

Re:All this shows

[giorgiofr]

Why does one always have to make this kind of choice? OSS vs MS, MS is t3h debul, wtf... Every time I build a system I assess its needs and choose the right OS for the job. Sometimes it's Win, sometimes it's Lin, sometimes it's BSD, but *never* does it become a religious matter. Why do you, and many other people, make one out of such trivial issues as what OS to use?

Re:How curious

[mrsteveman1]

I found this gem in the opensuse faq about the deal

"Novell has also created or is among the top sponsors of projects such as the Linux Kernel, GCC, OpenOffice.org, KDE, GNOME, Tomboy, F-Spot, Banshee, Beagle, (K)NetworkManager, Kickoff, Evolution, XEN, Xgl, and Compiz etc. Are you refusing to use any of those as well? Since they all have substantial amounts of Novell code."

Microsoft CAN'T sue Novell

[DrYak]

If MS gets serious about pursuing litigation [...] Novell is sitting on a plump little target -- Suse

No. Suse can't be a target for the simple reason that Novell and MS have both signed a mutual agreement no to sue (in addition to agree to collaborate for interoperation).
In fact, that's where the whole story began. Microsoft hoped (and somewhat managed it) that people think that this should mean is that Novell could get sued because of Linux patent infringement and thus signed a deal with MS. Whereas in fact, the net cash flow was massively in favor of Novell (thus you can imply that, maybe, MS was affraid of Novell, somewhat. Novell has indeed a lot of rights inherited from the original Unix).

And that's where the problem currently lies. Novell has earned $wad_of_cash with this procedure. But now Microsoft is starting to go after the rest of the OSS community. Novell knows that all comunity members must work together to protect their work. But Novell can't retaliate, because there's quite a few thing they promised in their agreement with Microsoft, and that $wad_of_cash is nice enough. They don't want to breach the contract and loose their precious.

Helping the EFF fighting is an indirect way that enables them to do thing some of which may be against their agreement with MS.
Just like before, MS used SCO as a proxy to try to sue Linux shops.

If MS threatens to sue over patents, Novell can't counter sue them, but they can help the EFF to either : bust those special patents OR destroy the whole bogus patent system through reforms.