Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today

javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."

Comments

Re:Typical

[thegnu]

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.

So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.

Next to worthless

[JonasH]

I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.

Price Subject to Change?

[RedHat Rocky]

Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?

It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.

If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.

SOP, nothing to see here.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

[Billosaur]

Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.

Re:Inspirons

[d3ac0n]

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.

A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.

And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.

Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.

Meanwhile, in the UK...

[Simon Brooke]

We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page, but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.

Price ranges

[AncientPC]

Dimenson E520n ranges from $289 - $399 with FreeDOS. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is +$310.

XPS 410 ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.

Inspiron E1505 ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

[je ne sais quoi]

I'll believe this deal has a chance when you can get an option from installing ubuntu as the OS by just going in through Dell's front page. Right now, this is all I see, no mention of Ubuntu for the E520. If this changes by 4 PM CST then I'll think that Dell's serious about giving linux a chance, but if you have to know about it before you can find it as an option, or go to a special page, I imagine it will only be as successful as their redhat offering.

I'll pay to be sure Linux works now AND later

[KWTm]

I've been waiting for this day, so I plan to buy the Ubuntu laptop in the next week or two.

At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:

1. probably not by much
2. In the long run, the Windows laptop may be more expensive when I have to pay more for add-ons that are on the Linux Hardware Compatibility List. (You know, like buying a wireless card that works.) Even if I end up wiping the system and reinstalling some other Linux distro, I want to know that the hardware works with Linux.
3. Even if the add-on itself is pretty cheap, I've found that often I will end up buying a number of the cheap add-ons before I find one that's Linux compatible, so that effectively I've spent more money than actual list price (of the peripheral) to get it working. For example, I've got some webcams lying around that I ended up giving to the wife for her notebook. (She told me, "I only need one, you know...")
   
4. Most importantly, my time is valuable to me. I don't want to have to spend the time messing around with a Linux distro trying to see which video driver is going to work for me. Hey, don't get me wrong: I like tinkering just as much as the next guy, but in the meantime I want to have a working system. I'd rather tinker to see what I can make even better, rather than tinker to get something working.
   In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
5. The above referred to my willingness to pay more to receive a machine that works when I receive it, but I also get a future benefit by joining the critical mass that Dell creates by selling this machine. Specifically, since there is only one notebook (Inspiron E1505) from a major vendor that comes with Linux, I can be pretty sure that when someone comes out with something in the future for a notebook running Linux (say gRoadMaps or something), the author or the community will make sure it runs on that notebook. The same might not be true for some cheaper notebook with some weird chipset.
6. Dell responded to us as a community. We should support them, not just to reward Dell, but to show the rest of the corporate world that, yes, it is worthwhile supporting Linux. I'm not just referring to Dell's competitors, but manufacturers of Linux-INcompatible hardware (WinModems, anyone?).
7. You know we'll set up some Ubuntu system for the relatives so we don't have to do tech support for all their malware complaints? Well, this is the hardware equivalent. My dad's laptop is getting old and is starting not to meet his needs. If I'm happy with this Inspiron/Ubuntu package, I'll get one for my dad. Maybe then finally we can have hassle-free GPG-encrypted email and tunneled VNC for tech support. (Currently I refuse to support his Windows laptop.)
8. As a sibling poster noted, perhaps the Linux notebook is cheaper ($600 vs $699 for Windows?)

So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.

Changing the rules of the game---in MSFT's favor?!

[raw-sewage]

It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)

Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".

But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).

Re:OK fanboys...

[Anonymous Coward]

.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

Put your money where your mouth is :-)

You know there is no way in hell that will happen. The evangelists want everybody else to use Linux, but already have plenty of machines running Linux themselves (why else would they be evangelists?), thus the people who asked for this will not be purchasing these machines, that is plain to see.

What the evangelists need to do is participate in word of mouth advertising for Dell and recommend these machines to all their non-techie friends and family. Though myself, I would not recommend a Dell to my worst enemy, and I bet many of the Linux evangelists feel the same.

Don't get me wrong, its nice to see this option and perhaps enough average folks will be interested for the line to survive (plenty of store display models would help, and a little advertising campaign). Either way, this will not make or break Linux for the mainstream, the merits of the Linux product alone will determine that(despite all the conspiracy theories that tell you otherwise). Linux's biggest enemies are multiple distributions and non-free, non-open Linuxes like RedHat's and Novell's.

Myself, I think QNX has a better chance at producing a successful desktop OS for average domestic use, though that is no their target market, but if they set their sights on it, it would be a snap. With the increase in ubiquity of embedded computing devices we may yet see a day when QNX is the most popular OS running on dozens of devices in the average home and car. Granted the OS is not free, but man its good at what it does.

The success of this line of Dell products will depend entirely on word of mouth advertising, television advertising and the quality of the product (the weak link in the chain with Dell). Linux evangelists will not be buying them, we already know that.

Re:Inspirons

[Lehk228]

it's actually their $950 laptop with a rebate down to $700 for the windows model.

they must be saving a LOT putting OSS on the machine.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Paint Shop Pro at $70 can be easier to bear than the alpine
> learning curve of the GIMP.

Do you actually understand what ``alpine learning curve'' means?
It means that you get to a very high level of capability in a very
short period of time.

If you're telling me that with Paint Shop Pro I'd spend a long
time learning and not actually become very capable then I'm
glad that I use The Gimp and CinePaint!

Re:Dial Up

[flyingfsck]

The Conexant modem works with Ndiswrapper. I have an Inspiron 1200 and has been running Linux on it for years. Everything works.

What's the point?

[Cereal Box]

I almost wonder what the point of all this is. Linux fanboys have made such a fuss about Dell and other companies shipping Linux machines, but I find it hard to believe that the "do it yourself" Linux crowd would actually even consider buying a machine that's already been built. The laptop makes sense I guess, but the desktops don't.

Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.

Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.

I'm one of those 3. Here's the system I'll buy:

[KWTm]

I thought I should hang back and let others do the initial buying, to see how well this works out and whether the hardware crashes and burns. But if everyone did that, then nobody would buy because no one would want to be first. Since I've been looking forward to getting a Linux notebook, I think it should be okay for me to be one of the first "tryer-outers". Also, hopefully this venture of Dell's into Ubuntu will be high-profile enough that if I encounter any problems, I'll scream and shout that I'm going to post about my problems on Slashdot, and then Dell shall suffer the wrath of Slashdot!!</voice> and they'd be more willing to fix it.

In addition to the basic notebook at $599, I decided to upgrade the memory from 512MB to 2GB (+$200), since it's probably the most precious commodity around; if I try to upgrade later, say in 2 years, some new memory standard will probably have come out and I won't be able to find the proper chips.

I figured I'd upgrade the hard drive, too, from 80GB to 160GB. I had thought I would upgrade the 2.5" HDD myself, but it comes with a SATA hard drive, and I've only worked with PATA hard drives[1]. Anyway, that's another +$125 for the HDD upgrade.

My third upgrade is for the DVD burner. The original price comes with a CD burner/DVD-ROM drive, but I've always had problems with Linux and DVD burning --my Kubuntu box has the LITE-ON DVD DL burner, and so far I've had to power up our Win2k box to burn DVD's. For +$40, I'm happy to get the DVD DL burner, and I want to see if K3b will let me burn all 8GB+ onto a DL DVD. Would be sweet if I could.

The only thing I don't like is the screen size. I don't care about widescreen[2], and you can't directly compare diagonal screen sizes of 16:9 (widescreen) screens with 4:3 (conventional) sizes, so I converted. The diagonal of a 16:9 screen is 1.22 times as long as a 12:9 (that is, 4:3) screen for the same height, so I divided the 15.4" diagonal length of the widescreen by 1.22 to get 12.6". So I'm really getting a 12.6" screen, except it's wider. That's tiny. The ThinkPad that my work gives me is 15" (4:3 aspect, same screen height as 18.3" widescreen) and I don't think it's big enough. Well, at least the small screen size makes the laptop smaller and portable.

By the way, what the heck is "TrueLife (glossy)"? I have the option to have it or not have it for my screen, at the same price, but it sounds like a load of MarketSpeak.

So, anyway, here's my system, cut&pasted from the Dell page:

Intel® Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife(TM)(glossy)
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM
160GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability

53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g

1Yr Ltd Warranty and Mail-In Service
Recycling Kit and Plant a Tree for Me

Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Integrated Audio
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor

I'll probably sit on this till next week, and then make the purchase.
Any comments? Is this a good deal, or am I being foolish?

I'm experimenting with the Slashdot journal, so maybe I'll post stuff in my journal about how the purchase is going, and I think I can set it up so that people can post comments.

-----
[1] PATA notebook drives: It's not that I'm afraid of SATA drives; it's that I've been standardizing on PATA 2.5" drives because I have a number of 2.5" notebook enclosures that, for $25, turn the internal notebook HDD into an external USB HDD that fits into my shirt pocket.

[2] widescreen: Please don't give me that crap about "But if you're screen's not wide enough, you don't see the whole movie --it will be chopped off at the left and right sides!" Well, then, just shrink the movie! I don't see anyone ever saying, "You need a 4:3 screen, because your TV show will be chopped off at the top and bottom by a 16:9 screen!"