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Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
After all the comments that Dell should sell Linux machines, and that they shouldn't charge more for them than the Linux one, it is time to put your money where your mouth is and start buying these beauties. I, for one, know that if they ever offer it here on good ol' Europe I'll be buying one as my replacement laptop. Not only buy them, but recommend them for people that are buying their first computers and never had contact with Windows. If they are going to give any serious use for the computer (that meaning, no mass marketed games), they will not miss anything on Windows. Peace.
What you pay for is garanteed hardware compatibility.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Once you start adding the price of office and other commercial software with a solid foss alternative the gap widens even more. Of course, that's if you don't count the cost of your time spent managing your computer and its software. Depending on how familiar you are with one OS or the other, that could be a lot. Most importantly, linux should not be promoted as " just" a low cost alternative to windows. Keep in mind that it's also higher quality ;) (i can hear the hackles rising from here)
#!/usr/bin/english
Well, getting the same laptop at $599 instead of $649 is a nice little savings. It's not huge. The real reason that this is important however is that there needs to be some incentive for people other than those of us who already use Linux to buy a Ubuntu PC from Dell. So now the choice is you can either a.) stick with the familiar Windows system or b.) save a little cash. If they were priced the same there would be very few new people trying the Ubuntu PCs and sales would be too low for it to really be profitable to Dell to offer them at all, and they'd probably eliminate them from the lineup again in a year or two.
That's my take on it anyway.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
They are on a back page. If you go to Dell's web site and navigate to buy an E1505 laptop, Ubuntu is not an OS option anywhere along the way. I had to type Ubuntu in the search box to find the page where I could see/configure one.
Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...
So really, why don't pay, say 10 USD more to get Windows and THEN if you like to be cool, get the Linuzz pain and install it?
I can now buy a 64 bit computer with 4 gigs of RAM that is guaranteed to work with Linux for $1000. This will allow me to have one machine that can comfortably run 1 desktop-friendly virtual machine and several developer-friendly virtual machines using Xen or VmWare. Last week I would have to wonder if my $1000 "bargain" would have caused me lots of grief because of Linux incompatibilities. Dell just eased my mind and made a grand off of me.I must say that I'm really skeptic about this whole thing.... but who knows... After all we all know that THIS is the year of Linuzzz on the desktop.
http://nyamenation.org/
"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?
To my mother, who I am proud to say has been using Linux since Ubuntu 6.06 was released, Linux seems more reliable. She still clicks on those goofy advertisement images that look like they have real buttons, but guess what - her machine doesn't need to be reformatted within a week after that takes place! So in her eyes, the machine is more reliable.
To my grandmother, she only wants to be able to talk to family via email. Why does she need to spend any more than the bare minimum? Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.
And why not take this a little further... What if I'm a small company in need of some "thin client" computers. Why should I pay even a little extra for an operating system on 20 computers, when I can get it for free and completely avoid those fees (which would be a significant price difference, no doubt).
(Though this does not apply to the dell desktops directly, these could be used for this purpose...) John/Jane Doe wants to start a new business where a web-based application with a database is required. Why should he/she need to pay for a Windows server environment and Microsoft SQL Server licenses? The benefit here is clearly that a good deal of additional money can be focused on the business requirements, and not initial licensing costs.
Of course, I could present many more real-life examples I'm aware of... While that may not be a majority of the market, it is a solid start to appeal to these constituent groups, and it could to be quite lucrative long-term. Your needs are one thing, but I'm merely suggestion not being egocentric and suggesting we think of others' needs instead. Doing this will clearly benefit the entire community long-term.
this is the main reason I'm havn't switched. I put together an old dell cpx for my new business and wanted, really wanted to just install Ubuntu on it and be done. You know, start the biz on open source from the start. But my primary application was going to be dreamweaver which doesn't run on linux. I looked for a good linux alt, but there isn't one. the best i could come up with was NVU and it doesn't come close. So I installed an old copy of 2000 on it and went on, wondering just how much longer i will have to wait to finally rid myself of M$.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
Well, that and the 'Dell recommends Windows Vista' line at the top of every page....
Why is 50 bucks such a big deal?
Well, if for no other reason, it's interesting because the ol' "Microsoft Tax" canard is one of those foundation building blocks of MS hatred. How many times have you read, right here, that even if a major direct-to-consumer dealer/manufacturer WERE to ship boxes with Linux onboard, that Teh Evil Micro$oft would still be making sure that machine sold for MORE than an OEM-Windows-equipped box would. This is interesting because it lets some of the hot air out of that particular troll.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I think the goal was to have good open source drivers, ATI and nVidia haven't quite stepped up to the plate on that yet. I hope this may cause them to put a little more effort into either open sourcing their drivers, or improving their closed source ones.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Right, and then every pleb will pick Ubuntu cos its cheaper. 10 mins after pleb gets their new machine and plugs it in they are on the phone to Dell support moaning that they can't install MS Office, their games or whatever software they have.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Thats the thing about a community, they seldom speak wit hone unified voice.
I have this same qualm to some degree. I think it's stupid to put Ubuntu on desktops. Anyone who is interested in Linux will most likely be interested in building their own computer. Where it gets interesting is on the laptop. I can't build one of my own, so I am interested in buying one that supports Linux. Since I would have to buy a manufactured one anyways, the Dell is quite attractive for its compatibility. Unfortunately, I would like to see some more powerful laptops in the lineup. The current single model isn't really up to par.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Dell Has Been selling linux that isn't news. What's news is that the coolest most hip linux is now being sold on home user class hardware (As opposed to the workstation class hardware on the business side)
The whole point is guaranteed compatibility (i.e. "hassle free"). We want Dell to use their might to improve the driver situation for Linux.
BTW, I totally understand that in the amazingly short time-frame Dell launched this, it's not realistic to expect that they could solve a problem that the Linux community has been just living with for years. Kudos to Dell for what they've accomplished so far.
But I still hope they find a sane way to offer a compatible modem.
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?
My bicyles
My 3 year old 2.6 GHz Toshiba laptop (from work) with 32 MB NVidia handles Ubuntu with Beryl just fine. It's a pleasure to use. When I installed Vista (Ultimate) on the same machine, Aero was not even an option because the graphics card wasn't supported. Also, the Vista Media Center refused to play videos at all (which would play under WMP), citing missing files. It would suggest a reboot, but of course that never fixed it.
The whole Vista interface was sluggish, especially in Media Center. Now, Ubuntu, on the other hand, was great. And I could install the Myth Frontend to watch TV I had recorded on my backend at home. It all works great, and is very responsive.
Really this argument is probably somewhat offtopic, because I'm sure most currently selling PCs will handle Vista just fine, and Dell isn't selling 3 year old PCs. But as far older hardware goes, you really don't need to worry as much about system resources as much with Ubuntu as with Vista... and when you consider options like XFCE, the requirements go down even further.
The few that will have the foresight to get the windows networking driver before they wipe the drive. (I don't think dell will put a windows drivers disk in the cardboard box).
Besides, it'll boost the ubuntu sales, MS doesn't get the cash for the sale, and Dell definitely does not have to give them Windows support.
In any case, it's illegal to use a pirated copy of MS software. Bad Karma.
"Piter, too, is dead."
Yeah, I agree with the idea of sending a message. But it has to be "worth" sending that message: would I rather pay $600 and get a Windows license that I don't want, or choose from a more limited selection, and pay $800 to get a nearly identical system without that Windows license?
Of course, I made the choice that is most personally advantageous to me. I suspect this is a big reason why desktops bundled with Linux haven't caught on: small companies that try and sell Linux-based desktops don't have the same purchasing power and economies of scale as behemoths like Dell and HP which bundle their systems with Windows. So us Linux geeks buy the systems with Windows bundled and just discard it. We save money, but we pay Microsoft as well, so we're not saving as much money as we could in theory.
I think this is a pretty bold and impressive move by Dell... I just hope that they extend it across their entire product line. If the Customization options for every Dell system included a choice like, "Operating System: Ubuntu Linux (subtract $50/$100 from price)", you'd bet there'd soon be a *lot* more people running Ubuntu. Maybe a rough adjustment for those users and for tech support at first, but I believe the Linux community would come out far ahead in adoption in perception in a short amount of time.
My bicyles
Per your narrative, they did not consider Linux the first time. Also, per your narrative, someone that knows they wants Windows but doesn't know about Ubuntu may not be the target market. Perhaps a complete noob would be better. Regardless, Dell will have similar and more insurmountable problems with various flavors of Windows to say nothing of the growing limitations of DRM. At least they can solve Ubuntu problems over the phone. You can't upgrade a Windows install so easily nor can you circumvent its limitations legally (Dell can't, at least).
The Ubuntu promo has nothing to do with operating system, browser, or user agent (well for the most part).
If you look at the page source you'll see they have a javascript array of urls, one of which always includes the Ubuntu promo link/image. These arrays are all sent to their 'montage' function which is supposed to cycle through the different promos (open the dell home page in IE and you'll see the desired function in action).
In Firefox 1.5.x for whatever reason (they have too many errors for me to even bother trying to track it down) the page will load the first random image which could possibly be the Ubuntu one. This is why you have to usually reload the page to get it. However, if you have NoScript enabled (or javascript disabled, take your pick) you will never see the Ubuntu promo as you will always get the default image.
So Dell did put an advertisement for Linux on their front page, and if they purposefully targeted anyone it was IE users, the people least likely to be informed about Linux.
Well... they all offer 64-bit if you upgrade the processors, but the default processor for the laptop is a Pentium Dual-Core (rebranded Intel Core Duo with half the cache). You have to pay about $100 extra to get 64-bit and virtualization. Whereas for $500 they offer the Inspiron 1501, a Windows laptop, with the Turion 64 X2 TL-50 processor which has both those Linux-hacker-friendly features: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /inspn_1501?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=FamCustom
My bicyles
" No, you'd have to manufacture that interpretation, given the context, out of sense of over-defensiveness."
LOL. Amazing! Not only have you claimed that I "manufactured that interpretation" but you claim to understand my motivation for the alleged conduct!
No, I am not defensive at all. My conclusion that your comment was unnecessarily insulting comes from the fact that you engaged in name calling and cutting remarks.
Or perhaps you can explain how labeling Open Source advocates as "hippy-types" and saying that they are "growing up" and suggesting that they don't have real jobs is not being insulting?
Although your intent may have been to make the points you made in your last post to me the delivery of the original post was insulting. Maybe you didn't realize?
Not every computer user is a gamer. In fact, gamers are in the minority.
It's true that computer gaming is one of the few tasks for which Windows is obviously more appropriate than Ubuntu, but that's not enough reason to say that Ubuntu is inappropriate for most people. Ubuntu even works pretty well for the occasional gamer - UT2004 online is a lot of fun.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
1. Hey, my windows office that I copied from my buddy doesn't install!
You copied it from your buddy? Must be that DRM copy protection.
Have you ever seen shockwave work anywhere? Have you seen Homestarrunner.com?
It's already installed, but it's called "Rythmbox Music Player" in the menu for some reason.
GIMP is a more advanced version of Photoshop. Don't you hate it how new versions of software change things around?
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.