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Backyard Chefs Fired Up Over Infrared Grills

Vicissidude writes "With the expiration of a key patent, major gas-grill manufacturers have scrambled to bring infrared cooking to the masses. The grills are still powered by propane and have traditional gas burners that heat mostly by convection — or hot air. But they also can cook foods with radiant heat generated by one or more infrared burners. Char-Broil says its advanced burners operate at 450 to 900 degrees, hotter than the 450 to 750 degrees of standard gas burners. And unlike charcoal, which can require 20 to 30 minutes to reach its 700-degree cooking temperature, heat from the infrared burners can be adjusted quickly. Bill Best, founder of Thermal Electric of Columbia, S.C., developed the technology in the 1960s, primarily to give automakers a faster way to dry the paint on cars."

39 of 229 comments (clear)

  1. Apocalypse by McGiraf · · Score: 3, Funny

    I like the taste of paint in the early morning

    1. Re:Apocalypse by bobo+mahoney · · Score: 3, Funny

      Will you be able to get that glossy shine on you steaks too?

      --
      Bobo Mahoney
    2. Re:Apocalypse by arivanov · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tell me about it. I used to have a circa 1980 Soviet industrial paint drier operating on this principle (they did not give a flying f*** about American patents at the time). IR gas burner. No visible flame, no open flame in fact. The entire burner was neatly enclosed behind the IR radiating body. With this contraption it took 10-20 minutes to completely dry half a wall painted with emulsion or with fresh wallpaper in 3-5C temperatures (compared to 3-4 hours). The only problem was that it ate most of the oxygen in the room in no time at all so you could not use it to warm the room itself and you had to have all windows opened while using it. Quite a strange experience. The room was freezing cold and the humidity was at solid 100%, but the paint was drying in no time none the less. Me and my dad decorated most of our apartment that way at the time (1984).

      I have not tried cooking sausages on it at the time (in a hindsight - I should have).

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  2. Paris, is that you? by niko9 · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's hot!

  3. YRO? by bronzey214 · · Score: 5, Funny

    How, how, HOW(!?!?) is this related to my rights online?

    Will owning this grill magically make my Firefox not fit in my internet tubes? It's from all the hamburgers isn't it?

    Maaaaybe, it's for roasting my Thunderbird on a spit glazed in BBQ sauce. I guess that's somehow related.

    1. Re:YRO? by mangu · · Score: 5, Informative
      As I understood it, the article is about a patent expiration. I think the message here is that the mass marketing of a consumer item was delayed a few years because there was a patent holding it back.


      So much for patents being an incentive to innovation...

    2. Re:YRO? by Zouden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the contrary, I think this is a perfect example of patents being an incentive to innovation:

      With the expiration of a key patent, major gas-grill manufacturers, including market leader Char-Broil, have scrambled to bring infrared cooking to the masses with models in the $500 to $1,000 range. Previously, such grills cost as much as $5,000.

      So Bill Best invented the grill, patented it and used his temporary monopoly to sell the grill for a high price and (presumably) made lots of money from his invention. Why shouldn't he be allowed to do this? It's not like an infra-red grill is a basic human necessity.
      Now the patent has expired, other companies are free to improve it and sell it for cheaper. Fine. That's why patents have a limited term of 20 years (and it's exactly why copyright should have a much shorter term too).

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    3. Re:YRO? by Jartan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As I understood it, the article is about a patent expiration. I think the message here is that the mass marketing of a consumer item was delayed a few years because there was a patent holding it back.


      The article is worded badly. The original patent was created in the 1960s and expired in 2000. Then after it expired they started trying to figure out how to use it in a grill and it still took them 7 years to make it cheap enough for home owners.

      The article doesn't seem to really go into WHY they waited for it to expire though. It could be that they couldn't use it anyways for all we know.
    4. Re:YRO? by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So Bill Best invented the grill, patented it and used his temporary monopoly to sell the grill for a high price and (presumably) made lots of money from his invention. Why shouldn't he be allowed to do this?

      The question is not why he should be "allowed" to do this, but why other people's freedoms should be restricted to facilitate this. Remember, a patent doesn't give the inventor rights, it takes away rights from everyone but the inventor.

      And in this case, it might not have been a bad call. However, the fact still remains that, instead of spurring on the invention of consumer-level infra-red grills, this patent held back development until such a time that the patent was no longer an issue.

    5. Re:YRO? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then it's pretty ambiguous. For all we know, it might still have taken until 2007 for the cost of the materials & technology to go down far enough to be affordable for this use.

      The article didn't say for sure if the original company was willing to license the technology out at rates low enough to allow affordable grills, nor did it say how much they wanted for the licenses.

      I would suspect that it's very possible that it was the actual construction cost and not the patent cost that was prohibitive, but it's hard for me to be swayed either way on this particular case given how little information there is.

    6. Re:YRO? by az1324 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just wait for the USB powered version from Japan.

    7. Re:YRO? by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if patents are only 20 years (i thought it was meant to be 17 years), and the "invention" was in the 1960s, why is the patent only expiring now?
      They extended it by adding 1) a network card to the device 2) the words "with a computer" to the document.
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:YRO? by flyingsquid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      They slow down technological progress.

      Pretty much everybody seems to agree that the current situation with patents has gotten out of hand. But if patents are always such a hindrance to technological development, why did the United States produce so much new technology throughout the 20th century? The light bulb, the telephone, the phonograph, the AC motor, the transistor, helicopter, the PC, new drugs to combat AIDS, DNA amplication by PCR, just to name a few... arguably this is one of the most impressive runs of innovation in human history, and it happened with robust patent law in place.

      I'd argue that here the system, while imperfect, was doing more or less what it was supposed to. Inventors knew they could make a buck because their rights would be respected. Venture capitalists were willing to fund inventors because of the same thing. And people like Alexander Graham Bell, Igor Sikorsky, and Nikolai Tesla chose to be inventors here, rather than in their respective home countries, despite our system of patents, and probably in part because of it. There must be any number of countries that don't respect patent law, but I can't think of any that have become centers of technological development and innovation, where inventors flock to them. Maybe the system is broken now, but the answer is to fix it, not to throw it out.

    9. Re:YRO? by rizzo420 · · Score: 4, Informative

      wrong.

      i used to work for an outdoor furniture, grill, wood stove store that sold higher end grills (TEC, ducane, PGS, and some vermont castings). the TEC grill i mentioned was not made by char-broil, it was made by the same company that invented the infrared paint dryer thingy. they were the most expensive grills we sold and had the problem the article describes with the ceramic parts.

      i was never a fan of these grills, (1) because they were expensive (cheapest being like $900), (2) because they cooked so damn fast (these didn't have the regular gas burner on one side, it was all infrared), and (3) because they go so damn hot that if you left it on long enough and closed, the top could weld itself shut (we've seen this). this was 7-11 years ago that i worked for this place (summer job in high school and college). so no, they did not wait for it to expire. if you re-read the article, you will see that the other grill manufacturers waited for it to expire, but there was one company who was making these grills... the same TEC (Thermal Electric of Columbia) that made the paint drying stuff (and it's described in the about section of the website i linked above).

      while with the expiration of the patent, the price might come down a bit, i don't think it'll come down a whole lot. the grills are generally made with stainless steel to deal with the high heat. so all the nuts and bolts and screws and everything are stainless, driving the price up a bit.

      --
      please me, have no regrets.
    10. Re:YRO? by LordVader717 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the sad fact. Even the more justifiable "genuine" patents are nothing more than a very simple implementation of existing technology, and the only reason it hasn't been already used is because there hasn't been any need so far.

    11. Re:YRO? by VampireByte · · Score: 2, Funny

      It has the word "patent" in it, so it must be YRO. So if a little girl scuffs her patent leather shoes, it must be reported to slashdot regardless of the fact that "rights" and "online" are not involved. If it was her right shoe then it will show up here even faster because such an event is certainly as important as losing our freedoms.

      --

      Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.

  4. Ahhh by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there anything propane CAN'T do?

    1. Re:Ahhh by bl8n8r · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes. Dry the cat.

      --
      boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  5. This is perfect topic for slashdot by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 4, Funny

    There is lots of hot air.
    Everything gets grilled.
    The idea is analagous to car technology.
    And there was a patent involved.

  6. Hey, I've got one of those by Whuffo · · Score: 5, Informative
    Just got a new grill a couple of weeks ago and it came with an "infrared burner" in it. There's nothing that says that a geek can't enjoy a nice grilled T-bone from time to time is there? Can't have pizza every night, you know.

    OK, so this fancy burner looks different but doesn't seem to make a significant difference in performance. YMMV and all that, but I wouldn't pay extra for one of these. It's basically a ceramic grid that the gas blows through, so it's more fragile than the typical rolled steel or cast iron burner - probably cheaper to manufacture, too.

    Actually, it's about as close to a non-significant change in gas grill technology as you can get. Who greenlighted this story?

  7. Yay, a hotter grill! by Stickerboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now more steaks and burgers can be burned on the outside, raw on the inside!

    --
    Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:Yay, a hotter grill! by vidarh · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Just the way it should be. Well perhaps not burned, but brown. The ability to get me a steak that is juicy enough and red enough that my plate looks like I've just slaughtered an animal on it by the time I'm done is the measure of someone who knows how to do a good steak. I want it warm all the way through, but still pink/red all the way through or the flavor will have been completely ruined.

      It's hard enough to find a steak house capable of delivering a truly rare steak that isn't lukewarm, and without warmer grills there's no way I'll bother eating a grilled steak.

  8. Where's the flavor? by Ninety-9+SE-L · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been using propane grills for a number of years, now. Although simple to use and quicker at reaching their desired heat, I find they're quite a pain to clean and maintain. Yearly, I have to replace the burners, lava rocks, and scrape all the crud off the sides. I think the glass plate may or may not help in this department, however, it all depends on if you let the grease sit on it for too long. I recently switched back to charcoal for the time being and I have to mention, the taste you get from charcoal is unbeatable by any propane grill. With that in mind, what kind of taste are you going to get from a virtually flame-less grill? To me, it's no different than sticking a steak in the oven (assuming an oven could reach 700-900*).

    1. Re:Where's the flavor? by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually they are quite easy to clean. I just light it and run it at maximum for 15 minutes. Whatever is left after that doesn't matter...

      BTW, this is best done after you finished cooking your steak, since it takes a long time to cool down to a usable temperature. Don't let the barby stand dirty.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  9. Waste of money by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 5, Informative
    CharBroil is now selling consumer propane grills with technology licensed (or parts directly purchased?) from Thermal Engineer Corp, I understand. My restaurant used TEC commercial char broilers successfully for years, and they performed well. Recently, we tried switching to the infrared-style grills, and almost immediately purchased new grills made by another manufacturer. We were assured that the TEC infrared models would cook fast and evenly without flaring up. However, they caught fire in spectacular fashion on a regular basis. Utterly terrible.

    To make matters worse, the glass plate that does the work precludes misting or dousing with water to extinguish small fires. Food particles, marinade, etc. fall on the glass and collect there, and are almost immediately ignited. I can't wait to see the complaints CharBroil gets after Joe Barbecue Wizard every shatters his glass plate trying to clean it or sets his house ablaze.

    If you think this shouldn't be posted here, you are a loser. BBQing and grilling out = stuff that definitely matters!

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  10. It's a Cook Book! by JohnnyGTO · · Score: 2

    It's a Cook Book!

    --
    Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
  11. Only One Statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    OMGWTFBBQ

  12. Bah! by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you can't master a simple task like making a charcoal fire, you don't deserve a steak.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  13. What's wrong with patents by evanbd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a perfect example of one of the big problems of patents as currently implemented. They're supposed to be there to reward inventors and promote innovation -- but here the patent was doing the exact opposite, it's preventing new grill designs. The headline shouldn't be "patent expiration enables new grills," but rather "patent expiration makes grills cheaper." In theory, the market should make this happen through patent royalties. But obviously this patent holder would be making more in grill royalties if the patent were being licensed at a reasonable rate, and the grill makers and grill users would be better off too. So why do we all too often see patents *not* being licensed? The more I see this occur the more I think a compulsory licensing scheme for patents would be helpful. Remember, patents aren't just supposed to reward inventors -- they're supposed to encourage inventors to share their ideas *so that society can use them*. Patents should be benefiting both the inventor and the rest of us!

    1. Re:What's wrong with patents by mr_matticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, the patent expired 7 years ago, so there goes that theory.

      Patents do encourage inventors to share their ideas, but they were never meant to go into society's hands concurrent with issuing. Without a limited patent duration, you have two possible realities: either the company gets a perpetual stranglehold on that technology because government has no business limiting it (the Libertarian approach) or you have companies terrified of introducing their discovery because if cost them millions of dollars to figure it out, and cheap knockoffs for a fraction of the price would appear on the market nearly instantaneously (the "information wants to be free" approach).

      Neither one is particularly beneficial for society or companies. This sounds exactly like evidence for why patents work and are an important part of the innovation cycle. It also demonstrates that companies like to hide behind patents keeping their "great products" from the market when in fact they haven't really figured out all the details (i.e. a smoke screen for their vaporware products). If it was the patent holding back innovation, this article would have been written in 2000. There have certainly been infrared products offered for sale for several years now, legally, but beyond the reach of most customers. If you think that's because of the patent and not because of the newness and narrowness of the market, though, you're kidding yourself.

      Adapting a technology to a new market and new packaging costs a lot of money and involves a lot of trial and error. Any patent licensing on the method is just one small part of that.

      Yeah, at first glance it sounds like a great idea for "the rest of us" to get things 15-20 years faster. But the flip side is, "what's in it for the creator/investors?" Investors deserve to get something out of the deal, too. If that's a decade or two of exclusive use to generate profits, which are in turn invested in new products (and corporate accounting blunders), so be it.

      Yes, we could force companies to have profit limits, spending requirements, and compulsory licensing of their creations. We could also eliminate hunger entirely by dictating food production and distribution. It's only a matter of what you want to give up to do that. Part of living in a "free" society is understanding that there's a good and a bad side to that freedom, and you can't just pick and choose the good parts without accepting the less-than-ideal consequences.

  14. Re:unlike charcoal by futuresheep · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mesquite Charcoal and a charcoal chimney. No filler, no fuel needed, burns hotter and cleaner, leaving a much smaller mess behind.

  15. Re:unlike charcoal by Ossifer · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't know about your favourite foods, but oak chippings is way down on my list...

  16. Re:Why? by localman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Call me a heretic, but there are a few reasons why I do it from time to time. Mainly it's fun, more fun than using my indoor broiler. But also it still tastes better than inside cooking if you thow some mesquite chips on the grill first, right on top of the lava-rocks that sit on top of the propane. It's convenient and it still tastes pretty good and you wouldn't want to do that indoors. Also, even without the mesquite chips, grilling over a flame seems to work better than grilling under a flame. Something about heat rising, I would guess.

    In the end I will admit that a true smoke is the way to go for ultimate flavor, but for me I can get most of the flavor, most of the fun, and less hassle with a propane grill.

    Cheers.

  17. Re:Infrared emissions == HEAT by Whuffo · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Good idea - ask Alton why you'd want to cook meat at higher temperatures than found in the home kitchen. The holy grail of steaks: nicely browned and grill marked on the outside, tender and juicy on the inside - can only be found through the application of very high temperatures.

    Many steak house kitchens use a cooking device called a "salamander" to cook steaks. It's essentially two of these infrared elements; one above, one below and just enough room to slide the steak inbetween. Those reach temperatures of 1500 degrees or more - and the people who eat the steaks rave about how well they're cooked.

    Being a proper sort of geek, I converted my new grill from propane to natural gas before lighting it the first time. A quick change of inlet hose and a little numbered drill action on the orifices and I never have to worry about running out of propane. While I was at it, I uprated the main burners just a touch so that I can get it up to some even higher temperatures for cooking meats.

    Cooking at these higher temperatures isn't like cooking on charcoal or a regular propane grill. Things cook faster and flare-ups don't happen; drips vaporize (poof) and only provide added flavor.

    If I feel like I'm missing the good old campfire flavor, I can throw some wood chips in the smoker box. Hickory is nice, sometimes cherry is better. I think I've got a bag of mesquite chips around here somewhere...

    For those who wonder why anyone wouldn't use charcoal - turn knob, push button - 15 minutes later the temperature is passing 700 and it's time to toss the meat on. Yum yum - and after cooking, turn the main burners all the way up, close the lid, and check back in 30 minutes. All the mess is now ash; brush it away and it's clean again.

    Why not broil in the oven? Not the same thing at all! Your household cooking appliances are designed so the average knuckle-dragger won't burn the house down. Those gray steaks that only have a thin pink stripe in the middle are a poor shadow of what a well grilled steak is like. And by having the cooking fire outdoors, the house stays cooler in the summer.

    Gas grills are a very good thing when well designed and well handled - capable of better and more dependable results than a charcoal fired grill. Does that ceramic infrared burner add anything to the equation? I'm not convinced; it's more of a spec sheet checkoff for the marketing department.

  18. Re:unlike charcoal by MtViewGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    By the way, if you insist on cooking with wood or charcoal, get a Big Green Egg--you might not want to use anything else afterwards.

  19. Re:unlike charcoal by ScottBob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But I LIKE the taste that petroleum coke, lignite coal, wooden pallets, limestone, starch, and triple distilled jet fuel gives to food! MMMMmmmm... Brisket... droooooool...

    What I don't like is whenever people try to cook TOO MANY burgers at once on the coals, for instance, at a company picnic. All the grease dripping from the burgers leads to a raging grease fire, which lends a sooty taste reminiscent of burnt plastic to the burgers. Attempts at putting out the grease fire with a squirt bottle usually causes it to rage even more and kicks up ash which further gives a bad taste to the burgers.

    My favorite way to grill burgers and steaks over charcoal is on a hibachi. Do they even make those anymore?

  20. Re:Why? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One day someone will be able to explain to me the point in going outside to use a grill that cooks your food in practically the same manner as the broiler in your oven.

    One day someone will invent a grill that cooks food in some manner resembling an oven broiler - and your question will have meaning. Until then, grilling cooks food significantly differently that a broiler. Among other things, a broiler does not produce smoke from the food dripping. A broiler also tends to operate in a 'damp' enviroment (because an oven is a closed box), while a grill tends to be dryer.
     
     

    I'll take a bag of mesquite charcoal and my New Braunfels smoker over something like this any day. You grill for the flavor. Propane, electric, and now infrared just miss the entire point AFAIC.

    Yes, I grill for flavor - and propane provides it in spades. I own a charcoal grill too, and I choose between them depending on the effect I want and what I'm grilling.
     
    Someone who grills over nothing but one kind of flavored charcoal is the one missing the point. It's kinda like pouring ketchup over everything, because it all ends up tasting the same.
  21. Still a Charcoal Griller, Thank You by Roblimo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I, too, vote for mesquite (or other high-quality "real wood") charcoal and no-fluid, chimney charcoal lighting.

    I have an easy-to-clean Son of Hibachi for everyday grilling and a big, oval Patio Classic BBQ with adjustable airflow for slow cooking -- that also functions as a party-scale grill when we host cookouts for large groups.

    Some people seem to think lighting charcoal is a big deal. Not so. Crumple 3 sheets of newspaper, put them in the chimney (the Son of Hibachi functions as a chimney in its "closed" position), pour the desired amount of charcoal (15 briquets or so for our small grill, full to the brim for the big one) into the chimney on top of the paper, light paper through the air holes at the bottom of the chimney, then do something else for 15 minutes.

    Now pour the charcoal into your grill or BBQ and.... cook. Or, in the case of my Son of Hibachi, open it out flat, spread the briquets, and... cook.

    For slow-cooked BBQ (super-tasty ribs and briskets), be prepared to add more charcoal after two - three hours. Lift the grill, pour in about as many unlit briquets as lit ones already cooking, and use your charcoal tool (in my case a giant cast iron spoon) to make sure the unlit briquets are nestled well among the lit ones, put the grill and food back, and close the lid. Come back in a couple of hours and... eat.

    Both of these units are super-easy to clean. I have BBQ heretic (propane-using) friends who are amazed when they see that cleaning my charcoal cookers is *easier* than cleaning their flavor-destroying, gaseous monstrosities.

    Infrared heat is great for drying paint on cars and metal surfaces in general. But for cooking? (shudder) Not on *my* Florida patio. When it comes to BBQ, we like the real thing around here.

    - Robin

  22. Nice ad-piece by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    The entire article was written as if were an ad for Char-Broil. The whole thing was, "Char-Broil did this, Char-Broil has adopted this feature, etc." Oh, except for the one line:

    "Most leading grill makers, including Solaire, Weber and Whirlpool's Jenn-Air, also offer grills that use infrared."

    No shit, sherlock. Most of them came out with it before Char-Broil, and quite possibly have done it better. Napoleon Grills has had this feature for a few years now, and makes a far better barbeque than Char-Broil.

    I hate articles like this. Just enough information to make people believe they're reading news, rather than advertising.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban