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The Big Bang Vs. the Big Rumble

WBUR radio in Boston hosts a talk with two physicists, Alan Guth and Neil Turok, who represent, respectively, the consensus theory of the inflationary Big Bang and an upstart theory of the initiation of the universe in the collision of two three-dimensional "branes." Turok and Paul Steinhardt developed their "Ekpyrotic proposal" out of the mathematics behind string theory. In the audio the two physicists are perhaps more respectful of one another's views than the host wishes them to be. If you ignore the "let's you and him fight" framing of the debate, you will hear some interesting physics elucidated.

10 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Spock's Brane by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    brane comes from membrane. You got your 1-branes which are the "classic" cosmic strings. But of course they say that there are n-branes (0-branes, 2-branes etc.)


    You see theoretical scientists (you know the ones that have been working on stuff for decades and still don't have a single experimental piece of evidence) like to make up terminology and throw around big scary formulas to justify wasting time and money working on stuff that cannot even be proven experimentally. Sorry for the bitterness, but I wouldn't even call these people scientists. They might as well say that a giant spaghetti monster flies around and his noodly appendages form tiny knots and those knots are the elementary particles....BUT...OMG! the appendages are so thin that we cannot experimentally detect their presence...but they are there, trust us, here is a big hairy formula (don't worry about the solutions for know) it proves everything -- Give us another PhD!

  2. Non-cosmological redshift by Eukariote · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The cosmologies described here are based on the inference that the universe is expanding in a manner proportional to the observed roughly constant redshift-to-distance ratio (Hubble constant). The idea is that as space is stretched, the wavelength of light is stretched along with it, as it transverses that space.

    The problem with all these mainstream cosmologies is that observations have been made that require rather different (non-cosmological) mechanisms for redshift to exist. Halton Arp has made and detailed these observations, and the surrounding controversy http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Red-Redshifts-Cosmolo gy-Academic/dp/0968368905. Paul Mermet is another astrophysicist that has studied the matter http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/HUBBLE/Hubble.html.

    Essentially, current mainstream cosmology is likely to be complete bunk, because it is predicated on one particular ill-founded interpretation of redshift.

  3. Re: The cosmology controversy by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Current cosmology is anything but settled. The following interesting documentary shows the perspective of astrophysicists and cosmologists that believe the mainstream view is flawedhttp://www.mininova.org/tor/360930. There definitely are quite a few observations that do not fit the mainstream cosmology. Well hidden from university students and the general public? Is there some reason I shouldn't immediately dismiss this as more crackpottery?
    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  4. A Steady State Universe, Instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you want to get away from blackboard theory and consider what people actually see through telescopes, there is a strong case to be made, with many photographs of the objects in question, that many high-energy, high-redshift quasars appear to be located in close proximity to, and interacting with, low-redshift, low-energy galaxies. If indeed these observations are accurate (statistically they have a very low probability of being errors) then it's impossible to use red-shift as a metric for the "age" of the universe. And the rest of conventional cosmology also falls away. What do you get? No Big Bang, faster than light travel for rocket-ship sized objects, and other neat results.

    Dr. Halton C. Arp used to be one of the premiere U.S. astrophysicists (assistant to Hubble, winner of many awards in his own right, including "best young American astronomer", plenty of publications, etc.), but after 28 years as a staff astronomer at Mount Palomar was kicked off the telescope for his heretical views about red-shift. Now he's in a self-imposed sort of exile at the Max Planck Institut fur Astrophysik in Germany, but continues to believe that his many observations are valid.

    For a recent podcast interview (posted June 1) with Dr. Arp at Electric Politics, see here:

    http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/2007/06/a_ stellar_heresy.html

    And for Dr. Arp's personal website which has quite a bit of his research online, see here:

    http://www.haltonarp.com/

  5. Re:Spock's Brane by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sorry, English is my third language. How many languages do you speak?

  6. Re: The cosmology controversy by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem is the peer review system: they have trouble getting their observations and views published. That too is a favorite argument of cracked pots.

    So now I'm supposed to conclude that not only is the mainstream interpretation wrong, but that its supporters are conspiring to keep its problems out of the literature.

    Anything else I should know?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  7. Re: The cosmology controversy by Eukariote · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Anything else I should know?

    A few more things, by the sound of it. The first thing you should note is that the peer review system is very effective at filtering information. This makes it suited to both its official intent, which is to improve the quality of discourse, as well as to censorship. You seem to assume it is the former, but that is just an assumption about the intent and integrity of those holding editorial positions and key chairs.

    Secondly, editorial systems have been thoroughly corrupted before. For an example, read this book http://www.amazon.com/Into-Buzzsaw-Leading-Journal ists-Expose/dp/1591022304.

  8. Re:Pyrothechnic vs. Ekpyrotic by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually nothing has been 'proven' with regards to the beginning of the Universe. Everything is still theory, and while significant holes have been blown in the ekpyrotic model, I've no doubt that the 'real truth' if ever found will probably look significantly different from either the Big Bang or the Ekpyrotic model.

  9. Re: The cosmology controversy by Eukariote · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And you seem unaware that controversial views make it into the peer reviewed literature all the frikken time.
    I am fully aware of that. It is not the controversial views that get blocked, but rather the views that endanger a large vested interest.
  10. Re: The cosmology controversy by Eukariote · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I can somewhat imagine this being a bit of a possibility in the medical field, which is a large financial business if anything. But cosmology?
    Indeed. This has the people being censored bemused as well. They mostly think the vested interest being defended is the large amount of prestige and funding tied up in current the positions that the mainstream have staked out and their research programs. I think the problem is more fundamental: cosmology may not be that relevant, but it is based on physics which certainly can be very relevant. There are good reasons to believe that a proper cosmology will require fundamental revisions to physics, relativity theory in particular. See for example the observations mentioned in this online book http://surf.de.uu.net/bookland/sci/farce/farce_toc .html.