Father of Sony Playstation Steps Down

Raver32 wrote with a link to a CNN article about the end of Ken Kutaragi's time at Sony. His departure was announced back in April, and now leaves Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) headed by Kazuo Hirai, Sony Computer Entertainment's (SCE) former president and COO. "Though no longer a board member, Kutaragi will hold an advisory post at the gaming unit, according to SCE official Sayoka Henmi. The departure of Kutaragi, an icon among gamers, marks the end of an era at Sony Corp. that saw the company long dominate the video game industry with its flagship PlayStation consoles. But it also highlights troubles at Sony amid a series of blunders over the rollout of its PlayStation 3 and intense competition from Nintendo Co.'s popular Wii console and Microsoft's Xbox 360."

Comments

Honesty.

[Pojut]

While I have consistently prefered other consoles over the Playstation platforms, I cannot deny the impact that Sony has had on the gaming culture as a whole (both positive and negative). There is a good possibility that gaming would not be as prevelant and pronounced in our culture had it not been for the PS1/PS2.

Mr. Kutaragi, I rarely agree with your opinions on the business of video games, as well as your opinions on what gamers "want". However, you are still an icon in the industry and I respect you as such. Godspeed to you, sir.

Re:Honesty.

[Fozzyuw]

There is a good possibility that gaming would not be as prevelant and pronounced in our culture had it not been for the PS1/PS2.

I agree to your point that Ken was an important icon to gaming simply because he DID do what he did. However, I disagree with the point that the PS1/PS2 where instrumental to the gaming culture. By the time the PS1/PS2 came along, the gaming industry was doing nothing but picking up steam since it's crash in the late 70's early 80's. With the NES, SNES/Gensis battle, Dreamcast, PC gaming on the rise, advances in technology, etc. the "gaming culture" would not have turned out much different, IMHO.

Simply put, the culture drove the companies/systems not the systems/companies driving the culture. If the PS2 didn't exist, then there would have been someone else, with a similar system. Nintendo probably wouldn't have changed, which means the door for the "mature" console (read violence) would be left open. Maybe the Dreamcast would have been much more popular and Sega would have made the "Dreamcast 2" to fill the historical gap. Maybe it would have been more on the PC? Who knows. I didn't happen. However, the PS2 didn't "change" the culture, but it did "define" it.

Much the way I feel the NES defined my generation and the Atari defined the one before me. Thinking in terms of T-shirts and the ones with the NES, Atari joystick. 10 years from now, that generation be wearing a "Know your roots" T-Shirt with the PS2 dual-shock controller and think it's "retro".

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Honesty.

[Pojut]

I agree with everything you have said.

However, since the PS1/PS2 were released, the effect on the gaming culture in general did indeed happen. Personally, I would have LOVED a second Dreamcast (since it is tied for first place overall in which system I enjoyed the most....Super Nintendo is the other), however that is not what occured. I was merely regarding events as they happend (which is different from what I wish had happend)

Re:Honesty.

[aichpvee]

I don't know dude, "Playstation" kind of became synonymous with playing video games the way "Nintendo" was in the late 80s and early 90s. Plus they did sell 100 million of each of their consoles.

Of course, "xbox" is in a lot of circles the generic term for playing video games now and they've sold pretty horribly.

Re:Honesty.

[Anonymous Coward]

With the NES, SNES/Gensis battle, Dreamcast, PC gaming on the rise, advances in technology, etc. the "gaming culture" would not have turned out much different, IMHO

I think Playstation did change "gaming culture." Video games were targetted to the under-18 market, Playstation opened the appeal gaming more towards the 18-25 category.

Re:Honesty.

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbox original, while granted it did not sell 100 million, has sold over 20 million. That is massive and incredibly successfull for a first gen of there console. The 360 isn't selling as well as the Wii at the moment but it still has the largest current gen install base and both the Wii and the 360 are leaving the PS for dead.

PS2 was a great success for sony, but it was still dwarfed by PC gaming for the period and had very little influence on how the technology advanced. If anything from that point it was a failure as both the 360 and PS are adopting PC type GPU's and architectures rather than the more extreme custom systems.

Re:Honesty.

[LKM]

It's not as much the targetting changing, as it is simply gamers getting older. If Sony hadn't figured that out, Sega would have. Or maybe Philips, or somebody else.

Re:Honesty.

[Kashgarinn]

I never get the "Mr [insert the name of the person talked about in the news] here's my opinion as if I'm speaking directly to you!" replies to these kind of stories..

Do you really think Kutaragi is browsing slashdot for the comments on what ppl think? He's too busy updating his myspace blog, putting his resume on monster.com and posting his latest singstar performance on youtube for that!

Re:Honesty.

[Anonymous Coward]

and addressing someone who isnt even listening to you as sir for the benefit of an indifferent crowd just make you come off like a pompous oaf.

Re:Honesty.

[iocat]

Sony's revolution wasn't the PS2, it was the PS1. It was the system that first realy started the maturation of the game industry and how it was perceived. Other systems (NES, Atari 2600) were certainly insanely popular, but the PS1 was the first system, especially in Europe, that felt "cool," This was due to both its then revolutionary industrial design, its extremely advanced (for the time) graphics technology, and Sony's intense lifestyle-based marketing efforts. The Genesis and Super NES were marketed and accepted as kids toys. Having one in your dorm was considered a funny novelty, but serious people played games on PC, if at all, since games were for kids.

PlayStation 1 changed all that, and by the time PS2 rolled around, games were just seen as normal entertainment accessory among young adults, not something you grew out of. It's worth noting that while you mention the Dreamcast (a sweet system to be sure, and one that *should* have beaten PS2), you didn't mention PS1's competitors, the ill-conceived Saturn (which Sega originally envisioned as a 2D machine) or the late to the gate N64 (which, while it had the benefit of Nintendo's awesome games, sucked technically), or even the pathetic Jaguar of 3DO. Thanks to its brilliant design, and Sony's then-innovative technical and devloper support practices, PS1 totally chnaged the games industry internally, and how games were perceived by consumers externally. A lot of that comes down to Ken Kutaragi. In person, he came across as a really charming, brilliant guy (I met him a few times when I was in the press), and what he did for the game industry with PS1, I think, is his greatest accomplishment.

Re:Honesty.

[Fozzyuw]

It was the system that first realy started the maturation of the game industry [...]the PS1 was the first system, especially in Europe, that felt "cool," [...]The Genesis and Super NES were marketed and accepted as kids toys.

I cannot say I disagree with your point of the PS1's important being the system the DID herold in more 'mature' games (read blood, violence, and all kinds of squishy and dark stuff). However, I would disagree that they where the 'first'. Though, I do speak from an American side of the coin, oppose to a European side, which may, indeed be different.

My argument is that Genesis was, in-fact, the first system to do so. At least here in the US, Sega was constantly pushing the "cool" marketing theme compared to the SNES. Ever hear of Mortal Kombat by Ed Boon and John Tobias? There my example of how the Genesis started ushering in the 'mature' audience and tried to be 'ahead of the curve'.

I remember when all the talk was about how the Genesis had all the "blood and fatalities" while the SNES version made the blood into 'sweat' by turning it grey and they replaced some of the more graphical fatalities (Kano's Heart rip was removed or change if I remember and I believe it was Sub-Zero's ripping the head from the body with spine intact was removed or changed as well). Here, I found more info on Wikipedia. This "family friendly" attitude for the SNES (despite the game being much more enjoyable in graphics and controls), really hurt Nintendo and by MKII, they didn't bother changing the game.

It was the Genesis and Mortal Kombat that started politicians calling for banning games and implementing a ratings system, as parents found their kids ripping the heads off of their opponents (who where probably the parents) and blood being "everywhere"(tm) and glorified killing of others. Sound familiar? WAY before the Playstation's time.

Though, as I said, that was the 'real' start of mature gaming on home consoles. The PS1 being available and there had a lot more impact as it was a lot of the things you described. The market was larger by the time the PS1 hit and it influenced more people. While one could say Mortal Kombat was an "isolated incident", any game on the PS1 would call for a state of emergancy.

Though, you'll have to recall, my original argument was not that the PS1/PS2 were not the generation defining systems(ie. the Atari generation, the Nintendo Generation, the Playstation Generation), but that they were not pivotal to the game industry. If Sony never jumped in, someone else would have. I give Sony the respect for having 'been there' and 'done that', and they definitely didn't put roadblocks of "family values" in the way of game designers, like Nintendo does (notices "does" and not "did", because they still do). But I won't say that Sony made the game industry 'mature'. Rather, the game industry was mature, like a hidden cache of oil, and Sony was smart enough to know where to drill.

This is different than my feelings towards the original NES, however. The NES was a major breakthrough. It fought it way through fears and stigmas left behind from the video game industry crash, and walked directly into the popular culture of American and other places in the world. It become so much of a pop-culture that Mario was more popular than Mickey Mouse or Ronald McDonald.

The Playstation (either of them) and even Sega has never been able to achieve that kind of success. Sega gave it a very strong go with Sonic, but ultimately failed. PS1 tried hard with Crash Bandicoot, but failed. Nintendo had already started the wave, Sega and Sony were merely able to do more with it once it started (as the Genesis was more popular than the SNES, despite being less powerful, which sounds vaguely familiar today. Though, the SNES came back real nicely since it could last longer as a system).

Likewise, I would credit Atari with star

Icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

The departure of Kutaragi, an icon among gamers

Well, maybe in the same way that the ugly AOL triangle that you have to delete off any new PC is an icon...

Re:Icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

As an owner of PS2 and PSP I should be offended, but this is so funny. Really.

occasional failure.

[TheGeneration]

Why do the Japanese seem to always throw the baby out with the bathwater? One failure is not equivalent to becoming incapable of producing more success. I'll just be happy I live in a culture where occasional failure is seen as an opportunity to grow and become better.

Re:occasional failure.

[uarch]

And what makes you think this is entirely do to some perceived failure with PS3? There could be other factors at play including a personal desire on his part for change.

You also shouldn't be so quick to assume PS3 was that much of a failure; yes it's not selling as fast as many would like but it's playing a strong role in helping Blueray pull ahead in the format wars.

Re:occasional failure.

[Applekid]

In a culture where employment for life within the same company is the ideal, for someone to step down for something that's not a problem is pretty rare.

That said, he's not being outed like Nintendo outed Gunpei Yokoi. He's still going to be an "advisor" outside the board... whatever that means. Yokoi was basically showed the door after the Virtual Boy: a failure far worse than the PS3.

Re:occasional failure.

[aichpvee]

Seems to me that PS3 is doing pretty well. It's outselling 360 in Japan and selling about even here in the States. All that at a price tag that's basically twice as high. Of course 360 is selling about as well as the original xbox. So while it isn't exactly something to brag about, I wouldn't count Sony out yet. They've definitely got a good shot at being the dominant "HD" console this generation, and who knows how it'll be doing against Wii 3 or 4 years from now. Though I wouldn't put it past Sony to blow the chance that they have now since it won't be there forever and microsoft still has the chance to turn their fortunes around, too.

I guess I was just being redundant and agreeing with you. I'm not sure how much Bluray is going to matter for the "console wars" but it definitely has a better chance of giving Sony a boost than microsoft with their HD-DVD drive, especially in light of Disney (they sell a ton, regardless of quality) backing it exclusively and Blockbuster recently dropping HD-DVD at most of their stores.

Sony is actually in a very similar situation to Nintendo right now. It's totally their game to lose. The only difference is that it's a slightly different game given that the market today for HD consoles seems significantly smaller than for Wii. That and they aren't selling a billion consoles a day.

Re:occasional failure.

[TheGeneration]

I would have to agree that the greatest calculated success of the PS3 is the adoption of Blu-Ray by content providers and content makers like Disney and Blockbuster.

Re:occasional failure.

[dilvish_the_damned]

I live in a culture where occasional failure is seen as an opportunity to grow and become better

Nevereverland?

Re:occasional failure.

[hibiki_r]

About even? I guess that they are, in the same sense that 30 are 60 are about the same.

NPD numbers for May in the US:

        * Nintendo DS: 423K
        * Nintendo Wii: 338K
        * Sony PSP: 221K
        * Sony PlayStation 2: 187K
        * Microsoft Xbox 360: 155K
        * Sony PlayStation 3: 81K

The Wii sells twice as much as the 360, which sells roughly twice as much as the PS3. I call that a spectacular failure for Sony.

Re:occasional failure.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Seems to me that PS3 is doing pretty well. It's outselling 360 in Japan and selling about even here in the States."

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11 067

In the US, the PS3 has been outsold on average almost 2:1 by the XBox 360 since its release date. And that does not take into account that the 360 had millions of units sold before the PS3 even hit the market.

"Sony is actually in a very similar situation to Nintendo right now. It's totally their game to lose."

Are you delusional? Sony is only beating the XBox 360 in Japan - they are losing to the Wii in Japan by ridiculous margins, and they are losing to the 360 and Wii in every other region I can find sales statistics for. If their sales continue to be lethargic they will never be able to build up a decent library of exclusives - first-rate games typically cost too much to make if you are going to release them only on a system with poor market penetration.

Re:occasional failure.

[tuffy]

The Virtual Boy is a bigger failure in the sense that nobody bought one and it completely failed to catch on, but its economic impact wasn't as severe due to strong SNES and Gameboy sales.

The PS3's failure in the marketplace isn't as total, but its impact on Sony is greater since the PSP isn't strong enough to pick up the slack. So in that respect, the PS3 is the worse failure for its overall effect on Sony and the Playstation brand.

Re:occasional failure.

[vertinox]

Why do the Japanese seem to always throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Well, he should be thankful they didn't have another Sony Exec offer to be his second.

Re:occasional failure.

[The PS3 Will Fail]

"but it definitely has a better chance of giving Sony a boost than microsoft with their HD-DVD drive,"

Or it has a chance to cripple the PS3 as being overpriced. I believe that the majority of potential customers in the North American market are not clamoring for HD and that DVD is "good enough"; so, by including a Blu-Ray drive that is not driving sales but merely inflating the price, Sony is hurting the chances of the PS3.

Re:occasional failure.

[CronoCloud]

Hmm, have you ever thought that perhaps the PS3 sales numbers are low because the PS2 numbers are high? That perhaps Sony meant what they said a few years back about the PS2 lifespan? There's still good games coming out for it. YAPS2RPG (yet another PS2 RPG) just got game of the month award from EGM. The PS2 is still going strong.

I also must remind you that with all those RPG's still being released for the PS2, RPG fans have no reason to upgrade.....yet. A similar thing happened with the PSone, RPG fans didn't start buying PS2's till late in 2001

I belive that Sony probably intended to launch the PS3 this year, not last year but their hand was forced into an early launch.

Re:occasional failure.

[aichpvee]

No question. But it's got a way better chance to help Sony than that the HD-DVD drive add-on for 360 will help microsoft. Which is actually what I said.

Re:occasional failure.

[poot_rootbeer]

it's got a way better chance to help Sony than that the HD-DVD drive add-on for 360 will help microsoft.

The 360 HD-DVD add-on also isn't HURTING Microsoft in any way, though. It's just commodity parts inside a custom case, so it's relatively cheap to manufacture and not a major production risk. And best of all, it's OPTIONAL. You don't hear anybody complaining that they would like an Xbox 360, but won't buy one because they don't want to pay for a hi-def movie player they have no interest in.

Re:occasional failure.

[aichpvee]

Seriously, how the fuck did microsoft get to have fanois like you? No one EVER said it was hurting them. Well, maybe someone did but I sure as fuck didn't. I said, and reiterated in the post that you replied to, that Bluray has a chance to help Sony. Period.

Bluray might help Sony sell PS3. The chance of that goes up as the price goes down. It also might not help at all. If they don't suck up some more of the price or get the manufacturing cost down enough to drop the price it may continue to hurt them.

Because something is or could hurt Sony does not exclude it from being a possible benefit. And because HD-DVD has basically no chance to help microsoft says NOTHING about whether or not it is hurting them. Seriously, you're reasoning on the level of a small child there, buddy. But that isn't very surprising since the xbox fanbase is almost exclusively the intellectually shallow end of 16-year-old boys.

Re:occasional failure.

[The PS3 Will Fail]

"But it's got a way better chance to help Sony than that the HD-DVD drive add-on for 360 will help microsoft."

Yes, you did say that. I wasn't disagreeing with that point. I'm sorry if it appeared I was. My point was that there is a larger risk for Sony with the route they've taken in regards to HD movies versus what MS has done. I think that considering the 1 year headstart MS has had and my belief that there is not a real big push for consumers to replace their DVDs yet (it'll come, just not too soon) and (sorry, this is running on) the fact that in the console business, snowball effects are very prevalent and difficult to combat, Sony should have cut Blu-Ray out.

Re:occasional failure.

[DaveCBio]

Apparently you haven't seen the sales data. The 360 is outselling the PS3 2 to 1 in North America and the Wii is whopping them both with higher sales per month than the 360 and PS3 combined. The PS3 is NOT doing well.

Father of the playstation?

[niceone]

So the first two kids turn out fine, there's problems with the delivery of the third and he's leaving!? Does that make him the Delinquent Dad of the PS?

shame and dishonor

[Anonymous Coward]

Ken has obviously brought much shame and dishonor to his family with the release of the play station three.

Clearly, an honorable suicide is the only way to remedy this situation.

Re:shame and dishonor

[Applekid]

Clearly, an honorable suicide is the only way to remedy this situation.

I snickered when I read parent and the bottom of the slashdot page had the following quote:

Practice yourself what you preach. -- Titus Maccius Plautus

Re:shame and dishonor

[Lisandro]

Ken has obviously brought much shame and dishonor to his family with the release of the play station three.
Clearly, an honorable suicide is the only way to remedy this situation.

Mods on crack! This is a troll? Sheeze, i don't know who this guy is but he owes me a new keyboard.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Kutaragi!

It takes a lot of effort to move from complete and total domination of a market to being unable to compete with your PREVIOUS console, let alone other next-gen consoles.

Sony's managed to piss off any good will they ever had, they've become the joke of the gaming world. No one's interested in the PS3 any more, price cuts couldn't even save that abomination.

That's not a minor failure. That's a complete fuck-up. They should have kicked him out the door a year ago when he was pissing off the gaming press and generating the mountain of ill-will against Sony's gaming division. (Not that Sony's media divisions were helping, either.)

Re:Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

[senatorpjt]

Are there actually any nerds on slashdot anymore? I was surprised by the PS2, because the first thing I did after inheriting a PS2 was install a DMS3 modchip, in the process learning how to solder leads 0.5mm apart on legs of a chip. After installing the mod and pirating games, I realized I had more fun installing the modchip than playing any of the games. Similarly, I've had more fun messing around with the Cell in PS3 Linux than I have playing the games. (Although, getting the Cell SDK installed was more frustration than fun)

That said, the PS3 is more fun than the 360... at least for me...

Half a dupe?

[shoptroll]

Considering we already have an article anouncing that he would be stepping down today... did we really need another article now that he has stepped down?

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/26/ 1726200

I really hate it when I see "news" and think it's old, because I read the "announcement of the announcement" a month or two earlier. /rant

Bouncing tits

[jsse]

Once I asked a Japanese developers what came to his mind when comparing Japan-based console (e.g. PS3, Wii, etc.) and US-based consoles (e.g. XBox 360):

Bouncing tits.

Yes, bouncing tits. He replied without blinking. "The former sold games with rocky tits while the latter sold games with bouncing tits."

Japan based consoles manufacturers care about the reaction of traditional Japanese parents so they tend to sell games with relatively 'clean' contents(even the external game developers are aware of their concern). That'd be in contrast with your believes in Japanese culture when looking at their AV and H productions, but think about the major market segment of game consoles in Japan comprised of very young children, this could be understandable.

What I want to say is, Ken Kutaragi faced the major challenge from Wii, not XBox 360, in Japan.

....Actually, I wanted to talk about bouncing tits not Ken Kutaragi from the very beginning, sorry.

Re:Bouncing tits

[dj_tla]

Is this post a joke? Maybe my sarcasm-radar is on the fritz, but if you're serious, you and that developer are off your respective rockers. Maybe different consoles have different standards for games they licence; I don't know, I've not developed for a console before. But to think that their different standards have something to do with the country they're based in is ludicrous. The forum thread you linked to discusses differences in Resident Evil 4 between various versions; one poster noted: You got it wrong. The japanese version has bouncy tits, the american don't. And its the japanese Playstation 2 version. Look at the textures. I suspect that the difference is the console the game is on, not the country the game is released in (which, according to that post, is backwards from what you describe anyway, assuming that poster is correct).

Just to put things in perspective, the primary console (not including the PC) that the AV and H productions publish their games on is the Dreamcast, what you would consider a Japan-based console. People also like to reference the Dead or Alive series when talking about bouncing tits, a series that lived until recently primarily on Sega's and Sony's consoles.

We need to stop obsessing over and searching for differences between cultures. There are so many more similarities than differences, obsessing over what sets us apart only serves to keep us apart. I, for one, am glad at how much international collaboration happens in the game industry as opposed to other media; we need to keep this train rolling forward, as we still have a long way to go.

Re:Bouncing tits

[jsse]

I'm glad that you replied than modded. Thanks for your information.

Sony "blunders" are not limited to the PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

They also include the root kit as well as all proprietary formats "ATRAC, Betamax, Memory Stick, UMD, and Blu-Ray"

Continuing to operate is their biggest blunder today. They don't even deserve to be in business today.

Re:Sony "blunders" are not limited to the PS3

[laffer1]

Yeah maybe you didn't see the Blockbuster selects blueray announcement. I don't think HD-DVD will win this format war. A better example would be the SA-CD format (or whatever it was called). Even MiniDisc did well in Japan.

Re:Sony "blunders" are not limited to the PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but I give this no credibility. It's obviously a boost for Bluray, but you're discounting the consumer end of the equation completely. If no one rents the discs from BB, it doesn't matter how many discs BB can put on the shelves. Last time i checked, the PS3 was the cheapest Bluray player on the market and no one was buying it in the numbers necessary for supporting an entire format.

One could even argue that blockbuster is tying themselves onto a sinking ship by going exclusive with BluRay.

Re:Sony "blunders" are not limited to the PS3

[nschubach]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8403 514&st=bluray&type=product&id=1180743330749
- $499.99 is $100 cheaper than a PS3.

And the PS3 is sitting right around 3-3.5 million 6 months off the block. So, if we say that people didn't buy them for the games (which my brother didn't) you might safely guess that quite a few of those (>1 million?) are dedicated players. Not even including the sales of the dedicated players themselves. Blu Ray is picking up like it or not.

Re:Sony "blunders" are not limited to the PS3

[senatorpjt]

Yeah, which is why you should get a 360 - Microsoft would NEVER use a proprietary format!

Politics

[rlp]

My understanding is that there was no love lost between Kutaragi and Stringer. Kutaragi had expected to be made CEO, but instead the board picked an outsider. Problems with the PS3 gave Stringer an excuse to ease Kutaragi out.

old news

[Bizzeh]

didnt Kutaragi step down a few weeks ago? and slashdot already report on it?

Gaming grew up along with Gamers

[LKM]

I agree. It's not as much a single vendor, changing the industry, as it is simple gamers getting older. The NES was the first console that created a generation of children who viewed gaming as something normal. The VCS didn't really do that - even though it was tremendously popular, it never became "normal," as shown by the temporary demise of the gaming market. People viewed the VCS as a fad. The NES, on the other hand, was part of common culture.

The people who grew up on the NES are now adults, and the video gaming market has aged along with them. NES: Childhood. Genesis, SNES: Early teens. PS1, Dreamcast, PS2: Later teens to early twens. Wii: Adulthood. A natural progression, accompanying the "gaming generation" much more than defining them.

Had Sony not entered the market, somebody else would have provided the kind of console that we wanted, just like now that we're adults and Sony has missed the boat, Nintendo has stepped up and provided a console for us.

Re:Gaming grew up along with Gamers

[cbreaker]

You can't know that for sure - that someone else would surely have came out with a more "mature" console in time. Timing is everything with these things; if someone had come along two years later, it might have been a flop and we might not have seen a game system for the "older" game player for a long time.

You give no credit to Sony, and I don't know why. They really did push forward the console game system market.

PS. Not everyone loves the Wii. I think the games are rather boring after you play them twice, the graphics are an absolute joke for a $250 piece of equipment, and it's networking abilities suck. The PS3 and the Xbox 360 are both a lot more "mature" of systems then the Wii was ever intended to be. It was designed for children like everything else Nintendo makes. They just got lucky that a lot of 20-somethings happened to like it too.

PS2 owners looking towards the Wii for replacement

[LKM]

Hmm, have you ever thought that perhaps the PS3 sales numbers are low because the PS2 numbers are high?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If anything, Wii sales are so low because PS2 numbers are so high. The PS2 and the PS3 target different markets, interestingly. The PS2 was the casual, cheap console last generation. This generation, it's the Wii.

Personally, I think a lot of PS2 owners will switch to the Wii instead of the PS3. I own both a Wii and a PS3. By default, PS2 owners tend to be interested in the PS3, until they hear how much it costs, at which point the Wii suddenly becomes the "next-gen" console for them.

Over here in Europe, PS2 owners own these consolese to play stuff like Singstar and Buzz. For these people, the Wii is much more of a natural progression than the PS3.

Nintendo targets Miyamoto's wife, not children

[LKM]

You give no credit to Sony, and I don't know why. They really did push forward the console game system market.

I would agree, but now that you've said it, I have to ask: In what way do you think Sony pushed to console game system market forward?

I actually remember that time. The market was not lacking for attempts at creating a more mature console. Philips, Amiga, Atari, 3DO... Everyone was trying to enter this market. Sony was just one among many. They won not because the PS1 was so amazing, but because all other consoles had pretty big flaws.

Not everyone loves the Wii. I think the games are rather boring after you play them twice

Uh, what games are you talking about, specifically?

and it's networking abilities suck.

Why, what's missing, in your opinion?

The PS3 and the Xbox 360 are both a lot more "mature" of systems then the Wii was ever intended to be.

I agree with the quotes around "mature." If you equal "blood and wiggling tits" with mature, then the PS3 and the 360 are more mature than the Wii (at least so far, but games like Manhunt 2 seem to be turning the tables somewhat).

It was designed for children like everything else Nintendo makes.

Ah, but this is, of course, patently wrong. Nintendo does not target children with most of their products. They target wives. Or, more generic, they aim to make games that all players find fun. Would you say that something like "brain training" is less mature than "Resistance"?

Re:Nintendo targets Miyamoto's wife, not children

[cbreaker]

Maybe Sony should be given credit because they DIDN'T have major flaws in their console?

The PlayStation was the first console to offer real 3D acceleration, which made a huge impact on the types of games available for this system versus anything else before it. They didn't have silly cartoon mascots. The controllers were nearly perfect for any size hand. Even the look of the machine itself was simple, elegant. The machine WAS pretty damned amazing.

The other console options at the time were either A) Too expensive, B) Not available, or C) Old technology that couldn't compete with the PlayStation.

I thought 3DO was awesome when it appeared, and I liked that fact that it wasn't single-vendor. But it's initial offerings were extremely expensive and there was no software available for it.

What Wii games? Well, I've played the one where you can play tennis, bowling, etc. My friend has a couple more, too. We played them with a few friends a couple times and then we all kinda started just wanting to watch a movie instead of playing the Wii. The games seem to end up being all about the controller and swinging it around, and without any real accuracy. It's not fun once you discover that you don't really need to develop any skill to play any of the games.

The graphics and processing power of the Wii are such a joke that I can't believe they even charge $250 for it. It's insane.

Why do I think the PS3 and 360 are more mature systems? Because they aren't all cute bubble cartoon animations and cutesy sounds everywhere. They don't focus on games like WarioWare and Mario and Zelda everything. Everything about the Wii, from the GUI to the games, is child-centric.

The network stuff on the Wii is a PITA. The whole friend code nonsense needs to go.

Nintendo marketing can tell you all day long that the Wii is for.. what is it, Wives now? and you'll believe it, apparently. While they might try to make all games fun for all players, that's an approach that will inevitably lead to games that are mediocre at best: not hard, not complicated, ages 6 and up..

You can argue how much I should love the Wii all day long, and I just will never find it to be that fun. Sure, it's amusing for a little while, but I just don't like it.

Re:Nintendo targets Miyamoto's wife, not children

[LKM]

Maybe Sony should be given credit because they DIDN'T have major flaws in their console?

Not sure what you're trying to say.

The PlayStation was the first console to offer real 3D acceleration

Not sure if the PlayStation's geometry transformation engine actually counts as "3D acceleration." Well, I guess it does, but really...

Also, the Jaguar had 3D hardware, too, and was on the market a year earlier.

which made a huge impact on the types of games available for this system versus anything else before it.

That is wrong. What made a huge impact on the types of games available was Sony's licensing restrictions.

They didn't have silly cartoon mascots.

What? Are you kidding? Were you even around back then? Of course they had "silly cartoon mascots." Just none that reached the popularity of Mario or Sonic.

The controllers were nearly perfect for any size hand.

It was definitely better than most other controllers available at the time. It hasn't stood the test of time, in my opinion, but it was a good controller back then.

Even the look of the machine itself was simple, elegant. The machine WAS pretty damned amazing.

Yes, the PS1 was an amazing machine, but not really that much better (or better at all) than many other contemporary consoles.

The other console options at the time were either A) Too expensive, B) Not available, or C) Old technology that couldn't compete with the PlayStation.

Yes. The PS1 had the advantage of being pretty cheap and readily available.

What Wii games? Well, I've played the one where you can play tennis, bowling, etc. My friend has a couple more, too. We played them with a few friends a couple times and then we all kinda started just wanting to watch a movie instead of playing the Wii. The games seem to end up being all about the controller and swinging it around, and without any real accuracy. It's not fun once you discover that you don't really need to develop any skill to play any of the games.

(For the record, that was clarifying your statement that "I think the games are rather boring after you play them twice")

Obviously, you haven't played Wii Sports enough. You don't just swing it around "without any real accuracy." In fact, all five Wii Sports games allow for astonishingly deep control. For example, you can slice the ball in Wii Tennis in all directions, and with timing, you can control its direction. In Wii Boxing, you can make uppercuts, block or hit on different heights, and hit from the side, among many other options.

Yes, the games seem simple. No, they are not. They are rather deep for a free pack-in game.

And please don't tell me that games like Zelda, Godfather, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario or Trauma Center are boring after playing them twice.

The graphics and processing power of the Wii are such a joke that I can't believe they even charge $250 for it. It's insane.

You don't buy a Wii for the graphics. You buy it for the fun.

Why do I think the PS3 and 360 are more mature systems? Because they aren't all cute bubble cartoon animations and cutesy sounds everywhere.

Yeah. See, that's the issue. You think that Hostel 2 is a more mature movie than Monsters Inc. because it doesn't have cute animations. I think this is an absurd way to determine what media is mature. I'd rather watch Monsters any day. I think Hostel 2 is a childish piece of crap aimed at teens.

And I think this applies to most 360 games.

Gears of War is a great game, but really, you're running around in a greyish-brown world, killing alien mutants with chainsaws that spill blood all over the place. How childish is that? How in the world is this mature?

They don't focus on games li

Re:Nintendo targets Miyamoto's wife, not children

[cbreaker]

See, here's the problem. It's as if you believe that because the Wii is an old system repackaged, with a new controller, automatically every game is "built for fun" whereas games on other systems are not. You've fallen into the marketing brainwashing and you don't even realize it.

It's not all about the graphics, but they sure do count when you're talking about real cash and future game development. I still lug out my old Atari 2600 (with full faux wood-grain and working paddles) to play the classics like KaBoom! and Super Breakout. They're a lot of fun, and require skills. But I wouldn't pay $250 for an Atari 2600 today because the games are "purchased for fun."

I buy entertainment-centric equipment based on what value they have now and what value they are likely to hold for the future. The Wii just doesn't have the staying power, in my opinion, to retain any real value in the next few years to come. There's been a very underwhelming list of games to be released on the system, and there's a growing sense of "okay, that was neat. But I'm all set" with the system.

Besides, I LIKE GOOD GRAPHICS AND SOUND. What's so bad about that? What's so bad about enjoying ever-increasing realism in games like Elder Scrolls, that offer more and more immersion with each new generation of game system? What's wrong with ever-more realistic flight and driving simulators, or even side-scrollers with fantastic looking models? And what's wrong with wanting to make some use of my HDTV's resolution with my supposed "next gen" game system?

ps. I played a lot of Wii Sports. I must be some kind of prodigy because it's pretty easy to master those games... Swing the controller at the right time and you win. Might as well just be a button.

I find it highly interesting that

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the 55th post after several days. Apparently fewer people here care than I thought might.

Fun times in wacko Sony land.