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Microsoft to Simplify Downgrades From Vista to XP
castrox writes "Microsoft has noted that many corporate users want to run XP instead of Vista. They are now simplifying the downgrade process for top OEMs. Currently, all OEMs must call Microsoft whenever a downgrade is done. After the new procedure is put into place, OEMs may submit batches of keys to Microsoft online. According to the Microsoft blog on ZDNet, the 'downgrade software' will still need to be supplied by the end user. The deal is rather perplexing — it does not seem like you can convert the license since the only eligible versions for downgrading is Ultimate and Business. The company has more details available in a pdf document online."
...will probably be named:
Turbo Debuggerer
Solomon
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
Only Microsoft can make otherwise simple activities into tortorous affairs.
Why do the companies have to tell Microsoft everytime they "downgrade" a PC from Vista to XP? Does the company receive some sort of credit for being forced to buy an OS they don't want/need?
Why can't they just buy the PCs with XP already on them without having to uninstall Vista, then re-install XP, then beg for Microsoft's forgiveness, THEN apply all the hundreds of patches - each of which also requires a reboot, and then...
Is a huge reason we dread getting Vista here. Compatibility isn't too much of an issue, we have been doing preliminary testing and found a reasonable expectation with it to work with our software.
However, having to set up an activation server, have users log back in every 180 days... is just idiotic.
If we get audited, we get screwed anyway. So why make it so difficult?
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
For environmental reasons, Microsoft should continue development and support of Windows 2000 and XP. Older machines will keep running longer and so stay out of landfills, and they could eventually give these operating systems away free to benefit the penniless basement-dwellers of the world who keep typing "F1R5T P05T" at the start of every thread.
technical writing / development
I'd consider it an upgrade.
Yeah, they're missing an opportunity here - if they admitted it was an upgrade, they could charge for it.
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
My friends tell me that what the summary reports is accurate:
This is true for home users. Your Vista license can not be used for XP, even if you simply upgraded. When you transfer your XP license to Vista, M$ won't give it back to you with their "Please let me use my OS" validation page. So, if you make the mistake of "upgrading" XP to Vista, you will have to buy XP again if you don't like Vista. Let's just say that people have not been happy with that and hope that M$ fixes it real soon.
Business users, I'm sure, get the usual double M$ tax. They pay the M$ tax when they buy the computer and they pay it again when they buy the OS and actual software, assurance plans and other nonsense.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I work for a university in the US -- this doesn't affect us one bit. No matter what the machines come with, we wipe the drive and drop our XP image to it (a lab/classroom image or a faculty image, depending on where the machine will end up).
.img file that is called by isolinux/syslinux from the UBCD4.0 custom disk I also created) to add the .DOS driver and PCI ID string so the NIC detection works properly.
When I build the image, any new models we receive have their drivers added to the image with this as part of our sysprep. We use Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.x (we use the DOS based DeployCenter to actually drop the image from our central imaging server to the workstations). I also have to modify the DeployCenter boot floppy (stored as an
I kinda went off topic there, however, the point is we have a MS Campus agreement for ~2000 seats (we are somewhere around 1600 to 1800, actually) for XP/Office2003/Vista/Office2007, so no matter what the computers we order come with, it's wiped and replaced with our own image (without even allowing the OEM drive to do its first boot).
The only people I see this affecting are businesses that use the machines as they come in, loading software on a one-by-one basis. It won't affect LARGE businesses (or those in the same situation as the university).
bork bork bork!
"Because I'd bet that you'll still have the great benefit of paying the hugely inflated prices for Windows Vista"
I'll do whatever it takes to make my business people-ready.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
The Vista downgrade process is horrible beyond words and we've had cases where it would of have been cheaper to buy an oem XP than pay for our time.
What the current process is - and I have a "manager's manager" (a guy somewhere in North America) on tape with this - is that you install using any legit media and a legit xp cd key.
Then, when the PC fails activation (which it will, if you've used the same key a few times), you call in, do the song and dance with the crap voice recognition system, talk to an Indian and hopefully* get an activation key.
This method will no doubt cause us problems in the future with genuine advantage, etc, but there isn't a damn thing we can do about that.
*I say hopefully because Microsoft reps don't know what the hell they are talking about and different call centers will get you different answers / route you to the wrong people. We've had a call where 2 managers were yelling at each other in Indian in a very heated argument while we sat wondering "wtf". Getting a key normally takes about 2 hours although we've got them in as little as 5 minutes after we've passed through the pointless activation voice system. The process is generally quicker now, although we dread calling. Oh... and we've gotten completely conflicting information - although MS is not supposed to generate xp keys, I've had several keys generated for me (if you bully the female Filipino csrs, they generally do stuff they apparently shouldn't)
Of course, for customer satisfaction, we've written most of this off - it totals in the thousands of dollars at this point. We've been pleading with Microsoft (we have system builder status, but we usually act as resellers) to get us a better process, because this is a waste of our time, but nothing has happened. False promises, missed deadlines, et al. OEMs were supposed to have a policy in place months ago, but as far as I know, not a single large company (from Seanix to HP to Dell and Lenovo) has the capability for their phone technicians to generate an XP cd key to solve this problem.
We're especially hit hard because we mainly deal with small businesses - usually under 75 people (we're in a fairly small town, so those businesses have slowly grown to get that "big"). If our customers were bigger, they'd use volume license agreements. As it is, they don't and we can't exactly say "fuck it" and install a corp edition w/ a wga crack which is what I've heard some of the smaller companies around here are doing.
Furthermore, I worked for Vista support for a few weeks during the rollout (if anyone wants a shitty, low paying job, head up to Sutherland in Vernon, BC) nobody knew what they were doing and we got conflicting information during training. When we were sitting on the line during the downgrade process, none of the indian csrs knew what was going on.
From what I understand from my contacts there, nothing has changed.
I'm assuming that Microsoft can reach all their outsourced call centers and provide them with the correct information (they have a centralized call logging application).
The fact is that that they have had several months and they haven't. CSRs are still giving out bad info and managers still have no idea what the hell the process is.
I don't want to say that Microsoft is intentionally making the process difficult, but I can't see any other explanation except for mass incompetence.
I know for sure that we haven't heard the good news or the new process yet... Maybe people in Canuckistan have to wait a bit for the news to filter down...
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Free Software means never having to tell anyone what you want to run on your computers...
As you have showcased, free software means telling everyone what you run on your computers!
I would like to point out a couple innaccuracies in your post.
First of all, corporate customers on the volume license agreement pay per full time equivilent employee, not per machine, for their licenses. This license allows them to install any office or windows pro products on all systems the company owns, provided they originally came with any version of windows from the OEM.
The license does NOT cover, however, the installation of windows XP pro, or vista business, on a computer that originally came wihth Linux (Dell's Ubuntu laptops), freeDOS, or MacOS (all apple computers). The corporate license of the OS is for the UPGRADE only to the professional version of the latest or previous release. In this case, XP or Vista.
The problems for businesses are many:
- businesses or government institutions who are on the license and don't re-image all their systems end up licensing XP pro/vista business TWICE for each employee.
- In order to not double pay, you must buy the system with a home version of windows, then image it using the corporate license to XP Pro or Vista Business. In this way, you pay minimally for the home version, then upgrade the system to pro using the corporate license.
- Many places do a hybrid method, and only double pay in some instances: they deploy large quantities of desktops or laptops at a time and order with home edition, then since they are managing them all with altiris they just stick the corporate image on them when they arrive. But they also some employees to choose which system they want to order for example, customize one specifically for them from dell.com. Then, those people always end up ordering xp pro because they don't want to have to re-load the system when they receive it from the factory. Since these people are ordering one at a time, its difficult to manage them with an automated deployment system like altiras because of increased down time and technician time.
So, its not a clear cut argument. It is definately a problem, and this complexity is 100% due to microsoft's stubbornness on the "upgrade" license (fact: you cannot purchase a MS OS volume license that is not upgrade only). MS should be more kind to their large customers and allow them to install on ALL systems, not just all MS systems. But they specifically do it on purpose as the loophole way around the DOJ lawsuit which prohibited microsoft from banning OEM's from selling non-microsoft computers. So this way, they get to have their cake, and still follow the letter of the judgement.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.