Slashdot Mirror


FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance

prostoalex writes "FastTCP technology, developed by researchers at CalTech, is being commercialized. A company called FastSoft has introduced a hardware appliance that delivers 15x-20x faster FTP transmissions than those delivered via regular TCP. Says eWeek: 'The algorithm implemented in the Aria appliance senses congestion by continuously measuring the round-trip time for the TCP acknowledgment and then monitoring how that measurement changes from moment to moment.'"

23 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. hmm by biscon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wouldn't you need to have FastTCP routers throughout the route in order to reach the speed mentioned?
    and if so why bother using the old FTP protocol instead of just making a new and more modern protocol?

    1. Re:hmm by GWLlosa · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, basically its just an optimization of packet rerouting and timing in hardware, instead of software. So its the same 'old' protocol, but with bits of it implemented in chips for speed, specifically the 'hey should I reroute now and it is ok to send a packet right now' bits.

    2. Re:hmm by stud9920 · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. TCP is end to end, the nodes in between could not care less (except for dubious filtering purposes) what layer 4 protocol is piggybacking upon IP proper.

    3. Re:hmm by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Al Gore didn't invent the Transmission Control, he invented the Internet.

      Al Gore never claimed to invent the Internet. That's just a Republican spin on relatively accurate statements that Gore Made. What Al Gore invented is Algorithms. That's why they are called that!

    4. Re:hmm by sudog · · Score: 3, Informative

      .. yea, sure, they'd be great.. if they actually worked. Which they don't. If you have any non-standard device sitting in between a client and server which speaks a non-standard protocol, unless the device can guarantee that to each end there is in fact no modification of the traffic, that the device itself is completely transparent, the device is useless.

      And I mean that: next time you implement one of these so-called miracle devices, run a TCP dump from both ends. If the TCP syn cookie is different, DO NOT INSTALL IT, AND RETURN THE DEVICE IMMEDIATELY.

      Don't say someone didn't warn you.

      I've spent the last four to six months debugging peoples' networks where it has invariably come down to these WAN-accelerators getting in the way and mangling network traffic.

      *VERY* poorly implemented, to a one!

  2. No Way by hardburn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Regular TCP can't be more than an order of magnitude away from the Shannon Limit, can it?

    --
    Not a typewriter
    1. Re:No Way by maharg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is that "regular" TCP mis-interprets long Round-Trip-Time (aka latency) as link congestion and backs off the rate at which it is sending packets.

      The bandwidth between point A and B may be rated at a high throughput, but TCP protocols such as FTP will never achieve that speed if the RTT is long. Increasing the bandwidth won't help !! So a slowdown of 20-30x is not uncommon on WAN links with high latency e.g. transcontinental, via satellite.

      I've looked at technologies like Digital Fountain (and it's Java implementation, FileCatalyst) which use UDP and some clever mathematics to overcome latency, however it's not clear from TFA what FastTCP is doing underneath..

      --

      $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
      @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
    2. Re:No Way by Stellian · · Score: 3, Funny

      Shannon-shmannon. How dare you !
      If you've read TFA you'll know this revolutionary technology not only increases the speed by a factor of 15 to 20 times, but also insures "overall client happiness". Amazing !

    3. Re:No Way by maharg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      .. although I keep coming back to the sentence "...senses congestion by continuously measuring the round-trip time for the TCP acknowledgment and then monitoring how that measurement changes from moment to moment.".

      I would imagine in the typical high-latency scenario, where regular TCP is mis-interpreting long RTT as link congestion, and backing off the rate, FastTCP is able to actually keep pushing the rate up, meanwhile keeping an eye on the RTT. I mean, the RTT shouldn't increase in line with the rate, unless the link actually *is* congested. So just increase the rate until the RTT increases, at which point you are genuinely maxxing out the link. I think that must be how it is working..

      --

      $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
      @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
    4. Re:No Way by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It doesn't, unless your TCP implementation is from the stone age.

      I love how fastsoft likes to compare themselves to Reno. 4.3BSD "Reno" was released in 1990, and the classic Reno implementation is LONG obsolete (and does indeed suck on a wide variety of connections).

      I can see how it would be quite easy to achieve 10-20 times the throughput of Reno on a high-loss or high-latency connection, in fact a stock untuned Linux stack will do so in many situations. (For example, a few months ago I was doing TCP throughput tests dealing with some faulty hardware that liked to drop bursts of packets due to a shitty network driver. A machine running VxWorks 5.4, which is pretty much vanilla Reno, could only send 160 kilobytes/second over a 100Base-T LAN to that machine due to the packet loss making it throttle back. An untuned laptop with Linux 2.6.20 managed 1.7 megabytes/second over the same connection to the same destination.)

      High latency connections were a major problem for TCP prior to RFC 1323 were a problem, but TCP stack authors have had 15 years to implement RFC 1323.

      FastSoft's product may have been big news in the early 1990s, but if a company has to resort to making performance comparisons against the "Reno" TCP implementation, they're a snake oil salesman because Reno is such an obsolete and shitty TCP congestion control implementation.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    5. Re:No Way by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Informative

      FastSoft's product may have been big news in the early 1990s, but if a company has to resort to making performance comparisons against the "Reno" TCP implementation, they're a snake oil salesman because Reno is such an obsolete and shitty TCP congestion control implementation

      Well, let's see. They won the 2005 supercomputing bandwidth challenge with their system. They also have numerous publications in peer-reviewed journals, invited presentations at conferences, etc. Sure doesn't sound like snake oil.

  3. FastTCP is just a fancy name for TCP Vegas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    FastTCP sounds like a fancy name for TCP Vegas (which has been around for quite some time). Window scaling and Vegas should buy you pretty much everything that FastTCP seems to be offering... Sounds like marketspeak to me.

    1. Re:FastTCP is just a fancy name for TCP Vegas? by bach · · Score: 3, Informative

      These slides http://www.fastsoft.com/downloads/Optimizing_TCP_P rotocols.ppt refer to TCP FAST as a faster version of Vegas.

    2. Re:FastTCP is just a fancy name for TCP Vegas? by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Funny

      FastTCP sounds like a fancy name for TCP Vegas (which has been around for quite some time). Window scaling and Vegas should buy you pretty much everything that FastTCP seems to be offering... Sounds like marketspeak to me. You wouldn't want to use TCP Vegas, the packets are unroutable. What happens in TCP Vegas stays in TCP Vegas.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  4. Hype by Zarhan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sounds like they just skip TCP slow start algorithm and stuff like that - so it's probably not faster than regular TCP after the window has stabilized. Slow-start and backoff algorithms of course cause slowdowns.

    Other possibility is some sort of header compression.

    Anyway, to use this safely you'd need to be *sure* you know your link charasteristics. The reason TCP has the slow-start mechanisms in the first place is to make sure you don't overflow the link - that's why it's known as flow control :)

  5. Re:Powered by handwavium by bockelboy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, FAST TCP is also available as a linux kernel patch. It's a well-tuned Caltech product which has been in development for years:

    http://netlab.caltech.edu/FAST/

    Several highlights include:
    - Caltech held the world record for data transfer for awhile
    - Won the bandwidth challenge at SC05

    It's one of the best ways to tune a single TCP stream. Finally, the list of about 50 TCP-related publications should indicate this isn't handwavium:

    http://netlab.caltech.edu/FAST/fastpub.html

    Traditional TCP streams (such as what you get with FTP) top out around 10-20 Mbps. If you want to see a single stream go a couple hundred Mbps, you need TCP tweaks like FAST (however, FAST is one of many competing TCP "fixes").

  6. FastTCP == 4 LoCs per hour by maharg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, you read that right - 4 Libraries of Congress per hour !!!!

    See http://www.fastsoft.com/research.html

    --

    $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
    @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
  7. Re:Nonsense by MindStalker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Only for short lengths. For international or especially satellite connections you get less than 10% with normal TCP.

  8. Re:Nonsense by bockelboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Think again. I suspect that you only have tried that on a low-speed link (DSL, Cable, FIOS, etc). Try thinking about 2 orders of magnitude faster.

    I transfer about 20 TB / day at work, and that wouldn't be possible with a "typical FTP connection".

    If you read the papers coming out of Caltech, you'd see they were optimizing for 10 Gbps lines, not residential lines. 15-20x faster is a very fair estimate; look at Caltech's presentations at SC05 or SC07.

  9. impossible to know if real from site by sentientbrendan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's true that early implementations of TCP were very naive. Over time this has been fixed, but there are still a number of problems remaining, especially to do with packet loss on WIFI networks (which it sounds like this may address).

    The primary problem with WIFI networks is that they naturally have a lot more packet loss than normal links. On other links, a lot of packet loss tends to indicate packet congestion, so TCP likes to decrease throughput to try to solve it. Under WIFI, that's of course unnecessary and won't solve the underlying problem.

    The article is missing some important technical details and there's a little too much marketing speak, but it does clearly sound like an improved TCP implementation, and probably some kind of traffic shaping hardware on one end (so that they don't have to change the networking stack on linux and windows, patch all their machines, etc).

    There were a couple of other posters that suggested that such a thing wouldn't work. One guy even suggested that it would require different routers end to end! This is of course nonsense.

    1. TCP != IP. Routers don't have to know anything about TCP to work (although they generally do for NAT, ACL, and traffic shaping purposes).
    2. TCP implementations have been changed a number of times in the past. Changing the implementation is not the same as changing the protocol. Nothing else on the network cares what TCP implementation you are using as long as you speak the same protocol.

  10. Congestion Control by pc486 · · Score: 4, Informative

    FastTCP isn't really a full TCP replacement but rather a congestion control algorithm. There are many competitors to FastTCP, including BIC/CUBIC (common Linux default), High-Speed TCP, H-TCP, Hybla, and many others. Microsoft calls their version Compound TCP (available in Vista).

    If you use Linux, have (CU)BIC loaded, correctly setup your NIC, and tune your TCP settings (rx/tx mem, queuelen, and such) then there is be no way for FastSoft to claim a 15-20x speedup improvement. I've done full 10 gigabit transmissions with a 150ms RTT using that kind of setup. FastSoft's device doesn't even support 10 gigabit, and their 1 gigabit device still isn't released.

    This article is nothing other than a Slashadvertisment.

  11. Re:Nonsense by bockelboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It works fine, but we actually tend to lean toward many streams as opposed to uber-fast single streams.

    Truthfully, you have to tweak the system pretty hard to get decent performance over a single stream (for us, 155 Mbps isn't sufficient - I work on a LHC project), especially from Nebraska to Switzerland (CERN). FAST TCP helps out a whole lot. GridFTP is the other piece of the equation - it is basically FTP with multiple data streams.

    We tend to lean on hundreds of streams a whole lot more than tweaking TCP settings, and the Caltech guys give us heck for that. They're right, however - if you're getting 100s of KBps per stream to some European site, it just takes a ridiculous number of streams to get up to 100 MBps. Right now, the storage systems are behind the network, so we haven't even been able to start playing with FAST TCP yet.

    http://cmsdoc.cern.ch/cms/aprom/phedex/prod/Activi ty::RatePlots?graph=quantity&entity=dest&src_filte r=&dest_filter=Nebraska&no_mss=true&period=l14d&up to=&.submit=Update

  12. XMODEM by BinBoy · · Score: 5, Funny

    This could be the XMODEM killer.