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SAP Admits to 'Inappropriate' Downloading of Oracle Code

Posted by Zonk on from the think-then-do-think-then-do dept.

netbuzz writes "SAP's CEO Henning Kagermann uses the undoubtedly lawyered term 'inappropriate download' to describe the company's questionable actions. Henning blames a rogue business unit, but there can be no mistaking the fact that Oracle caught SAP with its hand in the IP jar on this one. The legal proceedings that will follow should prove interesting. 'The admission hurts SAP's reputation in the battle with Larry Ellison's Oracle in the $56 billion market for software that manages tasks such as payroll. The rivalry between SAP and Oracle escalated when Oracle filed its March 22 lawsuit claiming SAP workers hacked into a Web site and stole software codes on a grand scale.'"

10 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. Bah by Richard+McBeef · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just a little harmless copyright infringement. There shouldn't be a problem here.

  2. Can I get a consensus opinion? by shark72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe that the Slashdot zeitgeist is that the word "stole" is used incorrectly here -- many Slashdotters believe that the term "to steal" should only be applied to an instance where a physical item is moved from one place to another, and should not be applied to instances of copyright infringement or unauthorized duplication -- although I presume that exceptions can be made for "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses" and the like.

    So -- was the code really stolen?

    --
    Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    1. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > Was the code stolen?

      No. Theft is the removal of property with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. This is not removal of property, it is the illegal copying of IP. Therefore, illegal, but not theft. "Stole", "Stealing", etc. seem to have a less theft-y connotation than "theft", in general use, and tend to pass in these cases without much argument, but that needs to stop. Theft is theft, and infringement is not.

    2. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by abigor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you're saying is, if I break into your house and write down the combination for your safe, I haven't stolen the combination? I think the popular use of the word "theft" would cover such a case. I've stolen the secrecy, which is the value in a secret combination.

    3. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by kebes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, you're quite right. This is not "theft" in any useful sense. Certainly in regards to the law, "theft" has a specific meaning. The present actions, if true, are probably illegal, but are not theft.

      Similarly, the other examples you gave: "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses". None of those are "theft" in the legal sense (in fact half are not even illegal). Moreover, if you were trying to have a refined argument about any one of those topics, I believe most rational debaters would agree that none of them are "theft" in the strict sense of the word. The word "theft" is being applied in those cases to make the term catchy and easy to remember.

      In regards to copyright infringement being inappropriately called "theft" (which is what you were indirectly referring to), similar arguments apply. It is not "theft" in the legal sense of the word, and I believe in a critical argument of the subject, using the term "theft" is imprecise and essentially an appeal to emotion rather than logic. The reason why many people in the copyright debate request that the terms "theft" and "piracy" be expunged from the debate is that, while they are catchy and easy-to-use terms, they muddy the debate by injecting moral preconceptions into the debate. (Thus, by using the terms one is implicitly already supporting a certain moral position, making impartial debate more difficult.)

      Similarly, I think if there was a serious debate about the morality of giving one's lover a quick kiss, it would be a weak argument from the anti-kiss debaters if they said "stealing a kiss is, like all forms of stealing, immoral since theft is wrong." The pro-kiss debaters would be well within their debating rights to request that the term "stealing kisses" not be used, and the more neutral term "quick kiss" be used instead.

    4. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by The-Ixian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      However, you have not deprived the owner of the combination and he/she is able to change it.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    5. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > So what you're saying is, if I break into your house and write down the combination for your safe, I haven't stolen the combination?

      YES, I AM SAYING EXACTLY THAT!

      Pretend now that my safe is on display at the end of my driveway, and you, passing by, happen to see the combination written on the front of it. Have you stolen it? No. The only thing you've done illegally in your example is Break and Enter.

      Pretend I leave my wallet open on a table, and you read my credit card number. Have you 'stolen' the 'secrecy' of my number? No. You haven't 'stolen' ANYTHING! However, should you choose to use my credit card number, you'd be charged with Identity Fraud and theft (since at that point, you would be stealing my money).

    6. Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You shouldn't have to pay a company to release a patch to you that they are holding for ransom.
      Well, there are differences between essential patches and non-essential ones. Security holes, operating flaws, sure -- I agree with you. But a lot of other patches are to introduce more functionality or to improve efficiency, and if you choose to buy software as-is, and then go elsewhere for support -- well, then, why should you have access to those patches? You certainly aren't contributing financially to the development of them.

      This is not abnormal for software companies -- if you want access to upgrades & non-essential patches, you pay for support of that software from the developer, or from authorized resellers. Pretty much an industry standard from my experience.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  3. When you take something that doesn't belong to you by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...that's stealing. People may try to justify stealing because the laws are bad (and the laws may need to be changed) but that doesn't change the fact that we steal things that don't belong to us.

    We are stone-cold thieves. That's the human condition.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  4. Re:Heh by Shuntros · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Greetings! American unit who didn't bother to RTFA, or the comments. Them, up there ^^^

    How exactly is entering a valid username/password (albeit that weren't theirs) breaking the unbreakable? It's not, is it. So you're not funny. STFU.