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Auction Site To Sell Security Vulnerabilities
talkinsecurity writes "A Swiss research lab has built an eBay-like marketplace where hackers and researchers can sell the security vulnerabilities they discover to the highest bidder. WabiSabiLabi could replace the back-room, secret sites where researchers and hackers used to sell their exploits and replace them with a neat, clean way to make money by finding security flaws. Those who have seen the site say they are concerned about how the buyers will be vetted, and how the marketplace will ensure the flaws aren't found through illegal methods."
Yeah, like it or not there's a good deal of trust involved for sites like eBay. I don't think that's going to work when extortion and thousands of dollars are on the line.
The whole value of the exploit is that only a few people know it exists. How do you preserve that when you would need to divulge something of the nature of the exploit for it to be marketable?
I wonder if the people putting this on are actually looking to make a point about software vendors and their products. Any chance that they are looking to do nothing more than score some legal victories for the good of the public?
Regards.
Companies like Microsoft seem to have developed the attitude that people shouldn't find their security holes at all, but if they do, they should be obligated to report them for free.
I think a free market approach like this is good.
As for vetting buyers and sellers, I don't think that's either necessary or desirable. If people find security holes through "illegal means" (whatever that means), it's a matter for the police and courts. And if the mafia outbids Microsoft, well, then Microsoft will have to live with the consequences or pay more next time. Companies like Microsoft should be exposed to the true costs of their security vulnerabilities, and they will be exposed to that only if the "bad guys" are in on the bidding, because vulnerabilities aren't worth a lot to the other "good guys".
If prices and damages get high enough, companies will invest enough in software development to stop creating security vulnerabilities in the first place.
System - Microsoft Windows
Flaw - You name it
Bid - 1 beeeeellllion dollars
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Tons of ways. One of the most common and easily explained is a denial of service attack. People tend to think that DoS just means hammering the line into submission; it's a broader topic than that. If that kernel memory leak can be triggered by any outside signal, then anyone who wants to bring that box down just needs to trigger it over and over until the box has run out of RAM and swap. On a high speed network, that can often be done shockingly quickly - on the order of tens of minutes, occasionally faster.
If you're interested in these things, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is read a good operating system book - in my opinion you're best off with either Tanenbaum or Silberschatz - those books describe these problems in detail in terms of debugging your work, but in many cases, compromising a system is about leveraging unfixed bugs (enbugging, if you'll pardon the coining;) as such, a book meant to teach one to fix these is a great way to learn what needs to be protected against, as well as why.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
While someone dumb enough to, say, screw over a Russian Mafiya buywer, I can see where there would be more than enough idiots out there who would happily try (and hiding behind eGold and proxies, etc for payments... it may even be feasible )
Not like there would be much in the way of honor among theives when it comes to a near-total-anonymous thing like malware and malware kiddies...
(besides, all one would really have to do to make a killing as a seller is to dredge through securityfocus' vulns DB... the smart crims would avoid bidding on it, and the dumb ones? Well...)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I wonder how long it will be before someday auctions a vulnerability discovered in the auction site itself.
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and how the marketplace will ensure the flaws aren't found through illegal methods.
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In which country?
People tend to think that DoS just means hammering the line into submission; it's a broader topic than that. If that kernel memory leak can be triggered by any outside signal, then anyone who wants to bring that box down just needs to trigger it over and over until the box has run out of RAM and swap. On a high speed network, that can often be done shockingly quickly - on the order of tens of minutes, occasionally faster.
In the web services industry we call this ColdFusion 5 and Microsoft Access.
It reminds me of the joke:
If its a real vulnerability, you can sell it over and over again. None of the buyers is going to leak it - they'd lose their investment, and chance to make $$$.
So, sell it once for $X, or sell it 20 times for $X/2?
This is just someone else with a lame attempt to insert themselves into a market.
So an exploit is auctioned to the highest bidder, and then on a different account the researcher auctions the same exploit to yet another highest bidder.
Sounds good to me, but don't the buyers feel cheated? I can't see anything to stop this from happening, so it doesn't seem like much of an _auction_ to me.
Also, consequently, after you buy an exploit you could auction it off to a bunch of other people and potentially make all your money back and more.
I don't really see how the auction format can support non-tangible items, is all I'm saying.
While I applaud this free-market approach to vulnerability and that careless software engineering should cost company money, I have to ask the question. How do bidder verified that a bug is indeed found as claim? I mean, what's stop someone from claiming bug X exist, ask for a bid, and leave the bidder in cold? I suppose the same problem with ebay but in ebay, at least there is a picture (not necessarily of the item itself of course). What's there to stop cyber racketeering and blackmailing??
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
This is going to vanish under an avalanche of litigation.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Might as well post an explanatory link - it's a Japanese term, if anyone was wondering about the origin of the name: http://nobleharbor.com/tea/chado/WhatIsWabi-Sabi.h tm
Sure. Reverse Engineering - Legal. Stealing source code - Illegal. Just because you're discovering potentially exploitable flaws doesn't mean that you're actually breaking the law yourself.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
Sounds like a great way to wash your hands after selling a vulnerability to the mafia. "I don't know who you are, or what you intend to do with this weapon. I don't want to know."
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Me failed English...
FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
Actually most EULA's prohibit this, thus making it illegal,
At best, breach of contract. Even if the EULA is valid, which many aren't. Plus you have to prove that the information was obtained through "illegal" means.
What would Lemmy do?
It was an InfoSec class in a Masters program.
Question- what do you do if you come upon a security hole?
Answer- ?
Case in point, some grad student in physics accidentally came across a vulnerability in the engineering dept's site. He reported it to his adviser the same day. (Yes, it was all proven). Adviser told the engineering dept., they fixed it, high fives all around. About a year later, the psych dept. gets broken into with a quasi-semi like exploit. Who does the uni and cops go straight after as a suspect? Yup, the kid who turned in the engineering vulnerability. Eventually was cleared, but how great is it to be a "Good Samaritan"?
So now you are student who comes across a commercial exploit. Now what? Auction is off for some moohla, let the company know, sit tight? If you auction it off and don't get sued by the company, does the school have a right to kick you out due to "unethical behavior"? If you let the company know, what kind of exposure do you have then? Can they accuse of being a hacker? If something similar in the future happens, can they come back to you? If you're a fan (or fanboy) of the company and sit tight, and later it gets hit by the same exploit, how is your conscience?
Now ramp the whole thing up to be a person in the commercial field. Tell your boss, etc.?
Now ramp it up to government level. Tell.... ? (underpant gnomes- had to fit that in somewhere)
Now ramp it up to classified level. Wait... nah, you cool as long as you tell your boss so -they- can exploit it.
As an individual at home, you'll probably be fine as long as you don't use the exploit to your advantage, and if you report it to a security site or the company I would think you would be fine.
Personally, I wouldn't touch this site with a 6 foot pole.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.