Motorists Sue Over 'Hot' Fuel

i_like_spam writes "Motorists in 13 states have filed lawsuits against big oil companies and gas retailers alleging unfair pricing practices related to fuel-pumping temperatures. From an industry standard developed in the 1920's, the price for a gallon of gasoline is based on the density of the fuel at a temperature of 60 degress F. A gallon of gas at higher temperatures is less dense, and therefore contains less energy. The lawsuits claim additional costs of 3 to 9 cents per gallon without temperature adjustments. The fuel industry claims that the costs of installing temerature-adjustment sensors on every pump would be prohibitively high. These sensors are already installed in Canada, however, where the colder temperatures favor consumers."

Comments

Of course it would be prohibitively high

[ChronosWS]

Because not only would they have to pay for the cost of the installation, but then they'd lose money due to the metering changes based on temperature. Then again, it's not like THEY pay for it. We do.

Should be quite easy to do

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Gas is mainly stored underground in reasonably stable temperatures. A daily measurement should be good enough.

Sure there's a small amount of gas (probably less than half a gallon) above ground in the pump that will warm and cool relatively quickly but since it is only half a gallon who really cares?

Re:Should be quite easy to do

[i_like_spam]

Yeah, it's stored in pressurized, insulated tanks underground, which will buffer the gas from temperature fluctuations. For this reason, I think that the lawsuits won't get too far.

But, the recent Congressional testimony on this topic and the multiple lawsuits in many states (some of which are class action), makes me wonder if there's something more to the story.

Common Sense/Observation != Science

[thesandbender]

I grew up around big oil. Wells, refineries, etc. and I've heard this premise more than once. On the surface, it makes sense but it doesn't hold up in practice. There are really two problems with this theory:

1. (the most important) gasoline tanks are buried 10+ feet under ground. They don't experience the same temperature fluctuations that the surface does. The temperature of the tank can easily be 15-20 degree below ambient air temperature or more. Also, it doesn't fluctuate as much.

2. In the vast majority of the country, the *average* weather nullifies this. Even in Texas, where I grew up, a lot of the state averaged 40-50 for a few months out of the year. In New York, where I am now... the *average* daily temperature breaks 60 for a few months out of the year. Average is important. If it's only above 60, even 70, for a few hours out of the day that will have *no* effect on the tank which is sitting comfortably at 50 or so. So yes... a few months out of the year you're paying more for gas. But a few months out of the year your also paying *less* for gas and most of the time you're breaking even.

I can see this being a valid argument in AZ, Southern NV, AZ... places that are at 100+ right now. But everywhere else in the country it's just someone else trying to get something for nothing.

You also have to bear in mind that this is going to hurt the station owners, not the petroleum companies. In some cases the petroleum companies own your local gas station (usually only in high profit locations) but most of them are licensed by franchises (still private individuals) or independent owner/operators and they will end up eating the cost of the equipment. Not "big oil".

I'm not a shill and I actually don't care for big oil at all... but this is just a stupid lawsuit. Sue them for not pursuing alternative energy. Sue them for not upgrading to more efficient and clean refineries. Sue them for not managing their waste products.

This is just a petty waste of time and doomed to failure.

Always trust what a business says

[suv4x4]

The fuel industry claims that the costs of installing temperature-adjustment sensors on every pump would be prohibitively high. These sensors are already installed in Canada, however, where the colder temperatures favor consumers.

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Re:Congressional testimony on Hot Fuels

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, were talking a couple of percent difference in energy per gallon here. Don't people suppose that their cars efficiency might also vary by a several percent with ambient temperature?

People in the United States buy around 350,000,000 gallons of gas every day. Even if the temperature difference accounts for only one tenth of a percent, that's about 350,000 gallons a day. Or $1.1 million a day at $3.15 a gallon. Pocket change to an oil company, but most people would appreciate the slightly lower gas prices.

"Motorists" in 13 states means "Lawyers"

[SashaMan]

Great, so as a motorist, if I win as a member of this class action lawsuit, I'll maybe get a coupon for $5 of gas, while the lawyers will get tens of millions. I can't wait.

Go Higher Gas Prices!

[stewbacca]

I'm I the only American on the planet rooting for higher gas prices in the US? Higher gas equals less SUVs and trucks which equals less congestion. I live in England now, and $7.50 gallon gas is the norm. Get over yourselves already America.

Re:Go Higher Gas Prices!

[Lumpy]

I used to root for the higher prices to put the pinch on those soccer moms and other idiots tht think they NEED a 7 foot wide 14 foot long vehicle to drive alone in.

But a reality kicked in. The poor only can afford the throw away from the rich. Right now the poor are sucking up the SUV's because they are all over the place at the $1500-$3900 price tag, which is all the car they can afford. The efficient cars like the older GEO metro the VW TDI and others are not selling for such low prices (I just sold a 3cyl Geo metro on Ebay for $6500.00 Bluebook is $3500) as the middle class are sucking them up off the used market.

So if Gas goes up it only punishes the poor. The rich and middle class like to bitch about it but it really does not affect them one tiny bit. The poor and working poor are those it hits incredibly hard as they cant afford a car that get's > 20mpg cant afford to have their car's in perfect running condition, and cant afford things like Low rolling resistance tires to beef up their cars economy (I have a 2001 Aztek, after a few modifications I am getting 28mpg.).

Soaring gas prices are simply extending the gully between rich and poor. Rich dont care, middle class bitch but really dont care as they are not selling their H2's or Surburbans to get smaller cars...

It's the poor that care. if the price were to increase enough it will make the difference between eating meat and dairy this week so daddy and mommy can get to work.

Re:Congressional testimony on Hot Fuels

[ptbarnett]

This is precisely because the proper metric for the determination of the energy content of a fuel payload is the mass of the fuel rather than the volume of the fuel.

No, it's because the weight of the fuel is a significant factor in calculating the gross weight and the center of gravity of the aircraft.

Re:Congressional testimony on Hot Fuels

[node 3]

I find myself extremely skeptical. fuel tanks are usualy fairly far underground. buried tanks are going to be fairly near isothermal and the ambient temperature is not going to change the temp very much on it's short trip to the tank. The question isn't whether the temperature stays the same, but whether the temperature the gallon is measured at matches a reliable, established, standard, which TFA claims it doesn't.

If anyone is getting ripped by this, it's the independent fuel stations. In other words: if someone else is getting ripped off worse, then the person getting ripped off less can't complain?

Finally, were talking a couple of percent difference in energy per gallon here. Don't people suppose that their cars efficiency might also vary by a several percent with ambient temperature? So, then it's perfectly fine to be overcharged so long as something entirely separate affects efficiency after the sale?

Finally, the station sells gas by the gallon not by the BTU. No one said it was. What is claimed is that it's sold by the gallon, with the gallon being defined as at a certain temperature. Or do you buy your produce "by the pound", but allow the grocer to define the gravity it's measured against?

Tell you what, if you *truly* believe your arguments are sound, I'll sell you pound of gold (based on Jupiter's gravity), measured at prices defined against Earth gravity. You shan't complain because I'll sell the same amount of gold to someone else at Moon-measured pounds. And just to be fair, I'll measure the gold I sell you at a constant, "isojupiterpound" level. And even if you *do* think you still have grounds to complain, I'll remind you that there are other factors that will affect the value of the gold you're buying, not just the gravity I measure the pound against. Besides, you're buying by the pound, not the gram, and even if I get to choose the gravity, these measurements are all pounds, aren't they?

Re:Congressional testimony on Hot Fuels

[DrSkwid]

because transporting 30kg of extra fuel around is free

Re:Congressional testimony on Hot Fuels

[bkr1_2k]

They didn't "piss away the savings" on a Coke, they made an additional, completely separate purchase with money they wouldn't have had otherwise. Just because it's not how you would choose to spend the money doesn't mean it was pissed away.

People rarely consider their own time when figuring the cost of things, so it's no surprise that the 10 minutes spent waiting is completely overlooked.