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Groklaw Explains Microsoft and the GPLv3
A Groklaw Reader writes "After all the questions about how the GPLv3 will or won't apply to Microsoft following Microsoft's declaration that they weren't bound by it, PJ of Groklaw wrote this story about how and why the GPLv3 will apply to Microsoft. Specifically, it covers in what ways Microsoft would convey GPLv3 software under the Novell agreement, and how Microsoft's refusal to allow previously sold vouchers to be redeemed for GPLv3 software would impact that agreement. Given that Novell has said that they will distribute GPLv3 software, Microsoft may have had the tables turned on them already."
It is all about mindshare, not compliance or enforcement - and GPL is clearly winning the mindshare battle. How could it possibly stop Microsoft from doing anything they do as long as no one has the money or the reason to take them to court over it and see it through completion. IBM is the only company I can think of that would really have both, and Microsoft isn't stupid enough to violate any of IBM's licenses, nor is it strategically positive for IBM to place themselve directly against Microsoft right now either. IBM is not Microsoft's only enemy by any stretch. Had it been so, SCO vs IBM should've ensured the death of Linux. IBM still maintains both strings to it's bow - Linux AND AIX. But the marketplace and MORE IMPORTANTLY the Developer community have adopted Linux and GPL in a big way. Visual Studio Express and free editions of many other s/w offerings indicates the growing mindshare of Free Software as a viable commercial model for developing and distributing software; and proprietary firms' changing tactics to counter this onslaught. Otherwise, who are we really expecting to take Microsoft to court? Novell? The Free Software Foundation? Please... Microsoft has been stalling the sum total of *Europe* for almost half a decade, if you think Novell or the FSF is going to force Microsoft to comply witht eh GPL you're delusional. Going to a court of law to ensure antitrust compliance or even standards compliance is so '90s. The customer has already voted with his dollars for Free Software solutions, and even companies like Dell have woken up to this fact. Companies offering standards compliant, open source s/w under less restrictive licenses are growing in number as well as stature. GPL3 removes the threat of the patent sword hanging over customer's heads as well.
All in all, recent moves have clearly indicated that the GPL is really working, and achieving the stated objectives of the FSF. Kudos to Stallman, Moglen and co.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Hmmmm - So when I use Microsoft software with their EULA that states quite clearly that they can changes the terms of the license at any time by simply posting the change on their web site, why can't others move their software from GPL2 to GPL3. When Microsoft can make changes to their license at any time, why can't others do the same?
Because that is evil, and stupid.
If Microsoft posted on their website tomorrow new terms to their license that I give them full rights to do anything on my box, or that I owe them whatever, if people really fought it in court, the people would win. You can't hold people responsible for terms that they didn't initially sign up for.
The FSF is claiming to be the good guys here, so why should they do something so underhanded as to claim a new license alters previous agreements retro-actively?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
> She is under the impression that issuing a coupon is the same thing as distributing
No, no she's not. The GPLv2 limited itself to distribution, but copyright law has fun theories of secondary liability, etc. The GPLv3 expands the scope that it covers to something close to the full scope of what's covered by copyright law.
Did everyone but me forget just how BROAD copyright law is? It covers loads of crap. Just like I can't sell warez vouchers for Joe'z Warez Sitez which happen to be hosted in a copyright-hostile country and claim no liability, you can't "procure the conveyance" of GPLv3 software as a license dodge any more. Yes, you COULD dodge like that under the GPLv2, but only because the GPLv2 said you didn't need permission for anything but distribution. But not any more, because the GPLv3 forbids it and copyright law says you need permission.
The rules have changed, folks. The GPLv3 is stronger, because it takes advantage of the ridiculously strong copyright laws that are so prevalent. But it really shouldn't matter much unless you dislike things like compatibility with the Apache license or planned to undermine people with weird software patent threats.
Right, because lefties aren't influenced by money? Microsoft has billions of dollars in cash, more than enough to buy whatever politicians happen to be in power.
Corruption isn't just a conservative phenomenon. By the time you get to the White House, unless you end up there by mistake, you're already crooked. The process of getting there guarantees it. I'm sure Microsoft slathers its campaign contributions around so that no matter who wins, they owe Redmond a few favors.
The only reason any politician would ever break up Microsoft would be if they thought they could somehow capitalize on its demise, and I don't see any reason why that's possible. You don't win votes by torpedoing one of the crown jewels of the U.S. economy and its economic dominance, even if you're a leftist. There might be some saber-rattling, but it's not going to be anything serious.
Your faith in one batch of weasels over another is cute, but ultimately I think you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Oh yea? I beg to differ.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
His fund just passed McCain's because of the people, not Fuck 500 companies, and big government, NWO, globalists.
When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. - Jefferson
For all the wailing that distributing vouchers doesn't give MS any liability, if MS stopped distributing those vouchers prematurely, and not just prematurely, but about the time that this supposed liability became public knowledge, then that says one of two things:
- Random corporate shit happened and it caused a halt to the voucher distribution, or...
- Microsoft's lawyers believe that the vouchers DO have the potential to put enough liability on MS to really fuck them up.
My money is on #2. And I find it very humorous to think that the extremely expensive and super effective with the sneaky-tactics lawyering team at MS missed the problem in the first place and OKed the whole SuSE voucher sneakiness. They were trying to pull a dirty-tricks campaign by manipulating SuSE and they ended up hoist by their own petard. It's just amazing that MS would make that big of a tactical blunder.When information is power, privacy is freedom.
That might be true under the US system but not necessarily elsewhere. There is much less sue/counter sue in Europe for example. And in the UK the loser pays the costs of both parties. Now the Groklaw explanation seems convinces me that Microsoft have realised that they have shot themselves in both feet and received powder burns to their hands. I wouldn't expect to see a European judge being unfairly biased towards Microsoft, particularly with their recent history over here, so I would be quietly confident about my position providing that at least one of the vouchers has been submitted and honoured. As many have been saying for a few months - the call would be "Go ahead, Microsoft, sue me".
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
Ok, think of it this way: Let's say I run a cafe that is close to a bookstore. To drum up business, I enter into an agreement with that nearby bookstore. I pay the bookstore for 500 copies of the new Harry Potter and the bookstore issues me 500 coupons that allow the bearer to get a free copy. I then run a promotion - come to my cafe and order so many meals and get a coupon. A customer takes advantage of this and turns in the coupon for the book. The customer is the buyer, the bookstore is the seller, and my cafe is doing nothing but paying the purchase price.
Now, saying that Microsoft is at all liable for anything under GPLv3 is like saying that J.K Rowling could claim the cafe is violating her copyright. I don't need J.K. Rowling's permission to give out coupons for her book, because my cafe didn't copy it. The publisher/bookseller (I'm lumping them together to make the analogy simpler) copied it. The publisher/bookseller is is the party that needs permission to copy the book, not me. I'm just acting as a mediator to bring together someone who is licensed to sell the book with people who want the book.
Now, if the bookstore was making bootleg copies of the book, and I knew this and got some sort of a discount on their coupons because of it, then a case could be made that my coupons facilitated copyright violations. This is where facilitation clauses in copyright law come in - but this doesn't apply in the Microsoft deal. There is no inherent copyright violation in Novell's distributing of Linux, so Microsoft giving out coupons for it doesn't count like that. Microsoft is not facilitating copyright violations with their coupons, because Novell is licensed (by the GPL) to hand out Linux. If Novell was violating the GPL in some way, and Microsoft knew about this and was using the coupons as a way of facilitating that violation, then they could be said to be liable under copyright law. That isn't the case, so Microsoft has nothing to fear. Microsoft doesn't need the GPL's permission to do what they are doing, because they aren't copying.
The GPL is not keeping anyone from suing Microsoft over this deal, because the GPL doesn't apply to Microsoft in this deal. Microsoft isn't copying the work. They are bound by nothing, just as my cafe isn't subject to any copyright laws for distributing harry potter coupons.
Yeah, I pretty much hate Microsoft's OS...and their business practices really suck...but their stranglehold on the industry is finally weakening.
What I'd really like to see happen is that Microsoft actually starts legitimately competing to hold onto its market share... Starts turning out a quality product... Makes Windows less of a headache to deal with... Makes Office appealing for reasons other than "we have to buy it because everything is in Word format."
Unlikely, I know... But anyone who can help point them towards the light deserves credit.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde