Japan Bans Use of Web Sites in Elections

couch_warrior writes with a BBC article about Japan's choice to restrain political speech in the 21st century. The nation of Japan bans the use of internet sites to solicit voters in its upper house elections. Based on election laws drawn up in the 50s, candidates are restricted in the ways they can reach their constituents. Candidates are even restrained from distributing leaflets that will reach more than 3% of the voters. What's more, people who are trying to change the laws are failing. Despite heavy internet usage and a strong installed base of high-speed connectivity, young people just don't feel involved in politics. "In Japan, 95% of people in their 20s surf the web, but only a third of them bother to vote. Some, though, do not seem keen on politicians using the web to try to win their support. 'I believe that internet resources are not very official,' says Kentaro Shimano, a student at Temple University in Tokyo. 'YouTube is more casual; you watch music videos or funny videos on it, but if the government or any politicians are on the web it doesn't feel right.' Haruka Konishi agrees. 'Japanese politics is something really serious,' she says. 'Young people shouldn't be involved, I guess because they're not serious enough or they don't have the education.' There cannot be many places in the world where students feel their views should not count. Perhaps it is really a reflection of the reality — that they do not."

Comments

Nonsense.

[Anonymous Coward]

In any democracy, all people who are affected by the laws should have a say in how those laws get made. Indeed, they have a responsibility and a duty to make their voices heard.

To paraphrase an old saw about reading, "the person who doesn't vote is no better off than the person who cannot vote!"

Re:Nonsense.

[cheater512]

At least the Japanese excuses are better than the Americans. "I'm too lazy to vote" doesnt inspire confidence in a country.

I'm too stupid to be posting a comment.

[Lordpidey]

Hey, I just realized, I'm too stupid and uneducated as a person to post comments, please take this away from me.

Re:I'm too stupid to be posting a comment.

[Dan East]

I thought about modding your post down, thus martyring your post by censoring it. It would prove your point in a very ironic way. But then someone else would post and say that Slashdot should add an "Ironic" moderation. If that existed then your post would be modded back up as Ironic, making it no longer ironic since your post's score would be high. An astute moderator would observe your post is without irony, and would moderate it overrated. Thus would begin a vicious circle consuming Slashdot Moderation points, until none were left to moderate other posts in other stories. First Post posts, spam and trolling would go unchecked without moderator points to hide them, and Slashdot would lose readers because the signal to noise ratio would be so low.

So I thought it best to avoid the entire fiasco by making this post instead, thus removing the lingering temptation to mod the parent down.

Dan East

That's the difference!

[jforest1]

...between Japanese and American students. American students think they know everything and people care what they have to say. Japanese students know everything--including that nobody cares.

--josh

Re:That's the difference!

[Anonymous Coward]

Japanese university students hardly know everything. For the most part, university is the first time that they get a tiny bit of intellectual freedom from the test taking grind of junior and senior high. Most of the university students I meet in Japan are still relatively underdeveloped in terms of personality and it is not until their dreaded job search that they start to become part of society. Point in case, usually when someone becomes a full-time employee they are then referred to as "shakai-jin" or a member of society.

That being said, I really wish these students were involved with politics. They could make such a tremendous difference if they even gave the topic the smallest amount of thought. These young people aren't afraid of the changes happening around them and they have a generally positive outlook of the future. The current politicians are just about as corrupt as you can get, and that's saying a lot when you compare that to the current US situation.

Re:That's the difference!

[badasscat]

Or perhaps there's simply a nation more apathetic than the American one?

Well, if that's the case, then I'd say their relatively low crime rate (and ridiculously low rate of gun crime), low unemployment, high literacy rate, high median income, and the fact that they haven't been involved in a major war since WWII shows their apathy is working out pretty well for them.

Maybe we could learn a thing or two from their political process? Is is serving us in any way, shape or form to have presidential election campaigns that are now 2 years long? That's what internet campaigning has done for us...

Maybe the fact that Japan has rejected political appeals to a bunch of MySpace losers is actually a *good* thing...

Re:That's the difference!

[Mr. Sketch]

But when it comes to voting, American students think that their vote doesn't count, whereas Japanese students think their vote shouldn't count. Big difference, but ultimately, the same outcome: they don't vote.

Re:That's the difference!

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect Japanese kids saying they "shouldn't" vote is more of a cultural thing. I don't think the difference is actually that big insofar as why they're not voting. If kids aren't voting, no matter where they are, they just don't care enough and, if you could get them to be honest, they'd probably admit they don't *know* enough about what they're supposed to be voting for/against. That and they're probably more cynical about the whole thing than their parents.

Re:That's the difference!

[kklein]

Um, I teach university here in Japan. I've also taught university in the states. So believe me when I say:

These kids are dumb as rocks. Really, really dumb.

The argument for these people being smart and this education system being good is predicated on test scores. As an educator and an assessor, I can't tell you how dumb that is. Basically (and I speak from experience in the K-12 education system here) no one does any learning in school until a few weeks before a big test, and then everyone crams FOR THE TEST. They don't actually learn anything; they just learn how to take the test. The most immediate place you can see this is by trying to talk to any Japanese college graduate in English. These people have all had about 10 years of English. They should be able to carry on a basic conversation, right? But you'll find that they can only spit out a few words, horribly mispronounced, and usually lacking any kind of syntactic structure. Why? Because they've never been expected to DO anything based on what they studied; they were only asked to pass tests. And they do. But they have zero real-world language--or any other kind of--proficiency, unless they've become involved in something in their careers.

Companies here fill the role we in the Western world give to schools. Now, I have many CS friend who bemoan the fact that they didn't really learn how to program well until they hit the corporate world, but that's not even what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is that some of my English major students walk out of here into programming jobs--with no prior experience or education or even an interest in programming. Why? Because when they interviewed for the company (and you interview for COMPANIES here--not jobs--the company then will decide if they want you and where you should go and what you should do), they looked like the kind of person who'd make a good programmer.

So if that's the case, what is the impetus to learn anything in school? If it has no bearing on your employability, save the name of the school, why bother actually learning about politics, history, language, ANYTHING? Answer: none. There is no reason whatsoever to learn anything, unless you just happen to be interested. So my boys are interested in drinking and getting laid (nothing wrong with either, mind you), and my girls are interested in Prada and Louis Vuitton (and I have no problem with brand goods, either--although I'm a Gaultier man myself). Very few, however, are interested in anything we'd call "important."

Of COURSE there are exceptions. Of course. But the sick and sad thing that I see over and over is that the exceptions--the people who really did learn things and really are aware of their surroundings--do not fare any better than their benighted colleagues. They don't get better jobs. I'm sure that wherever they end up working, they do a better job, but they still get the same kind of generic jobs with the HORRIFYING starting salaries as the idiots around them.

Japan is not a meritocracy, and it shows. They have done very well for themselves by refusing to compete domestically and by keeping foreign entities on a short leash in Japan. But the lack of sound Japanese leadership has had a lot of repercussions that it seems most people don't realize. Look into who runs Nissan. Who has controlling stakes in Mazda. Mitsubishi. Who runs Sony. Etc. These "Japanese" companies--the companies we point to to say "Japan is amazing"--haven't been run by Japanese people for a long time. The exceptions, of course, are Toyota and Honda, and they're big ones. But still.

PLEASE stop buying the Japan hype, people. If you came over here and lived for a few months, you'd be just like every other gaijin, saying "I always thought Japan was X, but it's actually Y!" It is nothing like what you imagine. It is a silly place.

Re:That's the difference!

[DDLKermit007]

Acccctually the main problem is the main populous of Japan just doesn't care. They are FAR more apathetic to everything going on around them than any other simple minded part of the US. They generally don't care as long as something doesn't bother their microcosm of life. Even at that they'll far too often just move aside when it does. I really like the country (hell I'm still enjoying it even though were having an Fing MONSOON hitting land here), but thats something I just have never been able to get used to. People here just don't care, and those that do are seen as disrupting the flow of things, and thus all too often get ostracized.

This move is purely been made because the internet has allowed people in other places to stand up for themselves elsewhere. Sure it won't keep scandalous information about politicians, and hopefuls from getting out, but it'll sure help make sure such information is never taken seriously. China's government WISHES they could control media as well as Japan is able to, and they do it so effortlessly because it's all too often self censored. Anywhere like the internet where anyone can do some damage they make the "outer fringes" in people's minds.

Re:That's the difference!

[Anonymous Coward]

I was a keio univ student in japan (and is a japanese, 25 years old now), which i dropped off after staying for 6 years (2 years extra) by not even attending half of it.

while you have said tad bit too much at the end of it by calling it a silly place, i totally agree how education is sad. i've seen people play games on their comp while attending class, since computer displays can't be seen from professors. and just do everything for the exams and reports to be handed out at the end of semester. and students even rob others' belonging in the changing room when they're having class outside...

and this is the university that is called to be one of the best in japan, wow. and since i had no interest in learning in boring class, most of the time i learned programming and skills related to webs and linux on my own, and i can say i have surpassed most of my friends by a good margin in terms of those skills without taking any of the class seriously.

the thing is, parents don't understand, and people don't really understand you unless you take the proper route and graduate it, but im very too certain that im capable enough to surpass any of the same year students to be very useful and i've started my own business related to web service on my own.

i keep telling my parents how beating school with great score has no meaning and graduate paper is NOTHING but they had a hard time understanding it...

but that doesnt mean all of japan hype is sad though, i still buy how our skill is great on auto mobiles and electric products, not just becuase the CEO isn't a japanese doesn't mean all the skills needed to develop are foreign. and see how environmentally friendly (as in co2 emission) compared to other developed countries. and then again, no guns make it safer too imo. japan still has great parts but like the topic, education is sad, and the worse fact is students don't get how sad it is, so they just go along with the route deployed for them ending up as not so useful work force no matter how good of university they go to.

as a programmer i feel really sad how japanese lack any serious english skill as it IS required to be an ace programmer, for to look up resource and information and to communicate with other developers and so on. I hope someone fix this sad education system and basically i feel sorry how our young people don't try for the better but just sit in fixed environment.

Those damn vans.

[Takichi]

The article talks a little about the loud speaker vans candidates usually use to get their message out. I hate them! The volume they blast their cookie cutter pleads for endorsement are as deafening as they are annoying. My house is a little ways from the road that they drive by, and it sounds like they're right outside my window. If you're unlucky enough to be on the side of the road when they pass, you need to cover your ears to prevent damage to your hearing, all while they're smiling and waving in white gloves. The worst is when election day is coming, so you have three or four vans all trying to out do each other.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. But it gives you an idea about what those damned trucks are like. After reading this article, it looks like things won't get any better for a while.

Re:Those damn vans.

[Riktov]

In Japan campaign ads on TV and radio (and any other electronic mass-media, I assume) are not allowed in any form. Having experienced both the Japanese campaign vans and the obnoxious election-season American TV ads, I'd say it's a toss-up -- well except for the fact that you can just turn off your damn TV.

Breaking the apathy

[alvinrod]

'Young people shouldn't be involved, I guess because they're not serious enough or they don't have the education.'

I'm not up to date on the civics education in Japan, but I feel that in America it's sorely lacking and really explains why we have such poor turnouts for our elections. I didn't have Civics (American Government, or whatever you may have had instead) until Senior year in high school, and by then it was obvious that most of the students in my class didn't care. It seemed as though most were content to sleep or slack off during the class or agonize the teacher with idiotic questions or annoying answers.

I think if we would have had the class at a much younger age and a teacher who promoted the importance of voting and participating in government, more students would have been interested in their government and the political process, perhaps to the point that they would research candidates on their own and make informed political decisions or have intelligent political discussion beyond "Bush is a Nazi!"

Looking back on my education as a child, I really wished that there would have been more classes like this at a younger age or just more schooling in general. I look at the other countries where children receive more schooling than here in America and wonder why this isn't something that we as a country aren't attempting to emulate.

Re:Breaking the apathy

[try_anything]

I think the quote was referring to education that would enable one to vote intelligently, rather than education that would motivate one to vote. I had plenty of the second kind in elementary school. That could be why I was an idealistic little kid and still am*.

Still, despite the civics classes I had in elementary school and high school, I have a hard time feeling educated when I vote. I try to read every article about local politics I see, but it's like they're written in code. I know what all the words mean, but I don't have a deep understanding of them. I find it much easier to vote on national issues than on local ones. I'm pretty sure that no amount of American effort or manpower can fix Iraq, but I have no idea whether local schools need more money. I have no idea whether property taxes are too high or too low. Sometimes I feel like I should leave voting to people who are better educated, just like the Japanese guy who was quoted.

As I get older, I am starting to figure out why young people have doubts and older adults radiate confidence. As an adult, you get used to faking things, especially things you know you won't be called on to justify. Adults talk as if they have well-grounded opinions about property taxes, school boards, water districts, and so forth, but they're really just repeating things they read or hear. My neighbor seems to know everything about local politics, and he's always enthusiastic about elections. It's intimidating to hear him talk with assurance about local issues. I feel stupid and inadequate, because my understanding of local issues is so vague I can't even articulate it. On the other hand, my neighbor talks with the same assurance about high-performance cars:

Neigbor: "Did you know the 2009 Acura C5X-9000 is going to have neodymium assploditrons? It almost makes it worth it to drive my old 2006 heap another year."
Me: "What the hell is an assploditron?"
Neigbor: "Some cars have assploditrons instead of wickdumpits. Wickdumpits tend to accumulate carbon residue and get bendy. Assploditrons don't have that problem. The neodymium ones will supposedly eliminate bendiness altogether."
Me: "And that improves the efficiency? Or acceleration? Or handling?"
Neigbor: "It improves performance."
Me: "Ah. Performance."
Neigbor: "Yep. You wouldn't believe the difference. You have to experience it."
Me: "So what do assploditrons and wickdumpits do?"
Neigbor: "Well, wickdumpits accumulate carbon residue. Assploditrons don't, especially neodymium ones."
Me: "But what do they do for the car? Why are they there?"
Neigbor: "Ummmmm. I'm not sure. I think they might be part of the drivetrain. Or the injection system."

It's this kind of confident fakery that causes many intelligent people to feel apathetic and inadequate when it comes to voting. Those people should vote. If there's anyone whose votes are needed, it's the people who doubt their own worthiness to vote.

* (I'm a typical American liberal who thinks the United States has the best political system in the world but hates American complacency and keeps obsessive mental lists of things we could do better and foreign examples we could learn from.)

good rule

[Jeek Elemental]

Im not sure what the implications of this are in Japan, if it ensures all parties get the same air time Id say its good.
If used by the ruling parties to stifle others, ofcourse not so good.
A totally open system will only favour the party with most money/biggest corporate backers.

Where I live political ads on tv are illegal, and I think most agree its for the best. Anyone wanting to sling mud on another candidate has to do so face to face in a debate, and be ready to back it up or be called on it.

Re:good rule

[ceoyoyo]

I've long thought that all forms of election advertising should be illegal and "reaching the voters" should be done exclusively through debates where everyone gets equal air time. You shouldn't have to be able to afford TV commercials to run in an election.

Re:good rule

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't advocate going that far. Media such as web sites and email, which are within the reach of practically everyone, should still be permitted.

In the UK, paid TV and radio advertisements are banned, but you can still campaign via posters, leaflets and print advertisements.

The main problem with excessive restrictions is that you hand a substantial advantage to the incumbents, who will usually get substantial media coverage due to their position.

I suspect that has a lot to do with the Japanese system. As it stands, the ruling LDP gets far more airtime simply due to day-to-day (i.e. "non-election") political coverage.

Re:good rule

[vtcodger]

The article title "Japan Bans Use of Web Sites in Elections" is unusually inaccurate even for Slashdot. If one actually reads the article, they find that what is banned isn't having a web site. It is changing the content or putting up a new site in the final few weeks before an election.

If I recall correctly, this isn't even a new policy. I think Japan does it for every election.

Japan has no shortage of cultural excesses. (e.g. the sound trucks). They probably are addressing some real, and hopefully unique to Japan, problem with these rules.

Japan Bans Use of Web Sites in Elections

[Anonymous Coward]

The title makes more sense when you remember that the Japanese mix up their l's and r's.

Define "definitely"

[Lurkingrue]

As long as the aforementioned hypothetical 18-year-old can't be asked by his/her country to serve, and die in its service, I guess I'm fine with that. As far as this much-older-than-18-year-old is concerned, though -- if you're old enough to be a soldier, a sailor, a member of the police force, or a firefighter, then you should be old enough to vote.

Re:Define "definitely"

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as the aforementioned hypothetical 18-year-old can't be asked by his/her country to serve, and die in its service, I guess I'm fine with that.

Then again, 18 year olds in the military aren't doing a lot of thinking for themselves, are they? They are there to be molded into weapons. I think that's why youth is preferred.

Re:Define "definitely"

[timmarhy]

being asked isn't the issue - i'm fine with young ones not votng even if they are asked - it's the ability to say NO which is important.

Re:Define "definitely"

[Kickersny.com]

if you're old enough to be a soldier, a sailor, a member of the police force, or a firefighter, then you should be old enough to vote.

Yet you're not old enough to drink alcohol, apparently.

Re:Define "definitely"

[mcrbids]

if you're old enough to be a soldier, a sailor, a member of the police force, or a firefighter......

Or buy beer, get married, be tried for a felony with full penalties, etc. etc. etc.

You got my vote.

Re:Define "definitely"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not the issue. If an 18-year old can be sent to die in a war on behalf of America, shouldn't that 18-year old have some say in the process of that leads to making the decision to become involved in said war? Especially in the context of the draft, without giving 18 year olds a vote, you are making slaves of those drafted.

Re:Define "definitely"

[AuMatar]

Actually no. The vast majority of non-officers have never been to college. Many barely finished high school. Another large percentage did ok in high school, but can't afford college and are in it for the GI bill. The number of recruits from the middle and upper class are vanishingly small.

Re:Define "definitely"

[baboo_jackal]

I want to say that well over 2/3 of all the junior enlisted in my unit were taking courses in pursuit of a degree. Honestly, I can't tell you how many times I was approached by E-3's and E-4's asking about OCS, Green-to-Gold, Warrant school, (Medical School, even!!!), etc. These kids have goals, just like any other American - they're just working a full-time job while pursuing them, instead of going to college on their parents and the taxpayers' bill.

The dumb country bumpkin stereotype for enlisted folk just isn't true anymore. And even if it were, the Army takes those young people and very explicitly teaches them a system of values that acts as a moral compass that, quite frankly, a lot of Americans never get exposed to. I'm getting out of the military next year - I'm in Germany now - and I realized something a few months back:

I was walking home from the bar in my little German town with a couple of my buddies when a large group of rowdy "youths" approached - you know, obviously drunk, loud, obnoxious, mean-looking guys. I immediately knew they were American soldiers - you know, the haircuts, they were actually in good physical condition (not the typical emaciated-looking European), etc. As they approached us, they recognized us, quieted down a little, said hi (Sir), and kept on going.

It dawned on me that had this been America, and those *not* been Soldiers, I would have been really, really nervous about me and 2 other friends walking past a group of 8-10 rowdy youths. But since I knew they were Soldiers, I knew that they, regardless of their ebullience, would be overall, well-behaved.

Now, that's not to say that Soldiers don't get in trouble: they do! (And the media is somehow always right there, eager to point it out. Imagine if they paid as close attention to the behavior of similarly aged kids in college! That would be eye-opening!) It's just that, in general, I happen to trust young Soldiers to do the right thing in any given situation. I don't have that level of confidence in a random youth plucked out of the civilian US population, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Army culture instills a very definite sense of right and wrong, and gives these kids a way to make sound, rational judgements that I think the typical American lacks.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:definitely not!

[timmarhy]

agreed. i'm 27 soon and i've only just grown a brain in the last few years. before age 24, I just had no fucking clue, and worse yet i THOUGHT i did just like others my age.

i know there's probably plenty of people reading this aged 17 - 25, who'll hate this simple fact. Your too young to have experienced enough to have much of a world view.

granted i'm not old enough to look down my nose at you, but i have atleast the realisation i have lots to learn.

Re:Sounds like a great way to protect the status q

[PMBjornerud]

Living in Japan, I have various issues with the Japenese political system. Not being Japanese, I don't think it's my job to make any changes, though.

It's definetely impacted by the seniority system that permeates the country. If you're old, you have a say, if you're young, you do what you're told. Obviously this is not a hard rule, but there definetely is such a trend. The standard view is that such a system would encouage some serious corruption (having a real and powerful organizations of organized crime does not help, they assasinated a difficult major during the last election).

I can't say I understand the Japanese democratic systems. I'm sure it protects the status quo, will probably change, though will change very slowly as the next 2 generations grow up. The system works somehow, and people still have to option to change things if they get completely out of hand.

Election Day

[shalmaneser1]

I recently saw a documentary called "Election Day" about a Japanese man running for office. While noting that Japanese documentaries stylistically are very different than modern American documentaries: what happens, boring or not is what you see; it's still incredibly interesting.

There seem to be no television ads, no yard signs with slogans, no big campaign rallies. Instead there's the use of existing events: politicians visiting school exhibitions, attending morning exercise programs for the elderly, and so on.

There's also a lot of the politician himself walking around town, introducing himself to people on the street, and standing around with a bullhorn at various popular locations ( ex. the train station ) apologising for the intrusion and explaining his views on things to anyone who will listen ( no one ever seems to stop and listen for very long ).

In what seems to be the culmination of the campaign there's even a bizarre bus tour around the small town while he and his wife shout things over a pa and wave politely from the bus.

In contrast with American politics -- it's strange to say the least.

All in all though it was refreshing to see a politician taking cat naps in his ultra tiny car and pounding the pavement all by himself to connect with everyday people and to drum up votes.

Re:definitely not!

[Gogl]

And the 60 year old is going to be an intelligent voter? They're not going to blindly vote for any asshole who promises "morality" and "the good old days"?

Face it, all ages of voters have the potential to be (and often are) stupid. Frankly, I've talked to some pretty damn thoughtful 12 year olds. I'm not saying that newborns should vote, but 18 sure as hell is an arbitrary line in the sand. Some people grow up before then, and some never do.

Re:definitely not!

[Anonymous Coward]

> So really, low turnout of inexperienced people is not bad. We don't need any more people voting for the guy with the attractive haircut.

Hey, if I just turned 18, maybe it's just possible that I could actually be more politically informed and qualified to vote than 90% of the 30-year-olds out there. How are you going to determine I'm not?

The important point being, you don't have the power to keep me from voting just because you think I'm voting for a haircut!

Title somewhat misleading

[achurch]

It's not that Japan "just banned" the use of web sites; it's that the law as written doesn't allow it, and hasn't been changed (in relevant part) since the web came about. Or rather, it's that the law is believed not to allow web sites; a few candidates that tried it got a warning that it "might" break the law, and none of them were willing to actually take it to the courts. (Interestingly enough, in this election the political parties have started posting their non-candidate members' speeches, arguing that they're allowed as descriptions of party activities rather than restricted candidate activities. We'll have to see how that holds up.)

Incidentally, a similar problem with videos of campaign speeches was discussed here in April.

Japan at Election Time

[BillGatesLoveChild]

I've been in Japan at election time. There's a distinct lack of information to go off:

* You'll find each neighborhood plastered with election posters from 30 or so candidates. These show the candidate grinning or looking stern, their name and a 'Vote for Tanaka'.

* Election Vans drive around the neighborhood saying 'I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me. I am Tanaka. I am Tanaka. Please Vote for me.' These annoy the crap out of everyone.

* That's all folks! Try making your choice off of that!

* Websites would have given a place for some intelligent debate, because you get nothing from the above. If you watch NHK's News Hour you will get some reasonably intelligent analysis, but for local issues you have to rely on the local stations and they do next to no politics. If your household watches the variety show or the kids want to watch anime channels instead, you'll get no information at all.

* There's only one real party: The LDP. Sure, there are fringe parties, but apart from one glitch (quickly) corrected the LDP have always held power. (Don't get too cocky: In the US the Republicans and Democrats are pretty similar. Last Election both Pro-War and Pro-Big Business.)

* Most Japanese don't talk politics. They've realized it doesn't make a difference. They try and carve out a living and hope the politicians leave them alone (Again don't get cocky. The hours you spend sitting around shooting the breeze with your buddies might feel good, but ultimately makes no difference either.)

* There's a big disaster looming in Japan because the pension system has been paying out more than is coming in. This has been known for 20 years, but no one has had the guts to do anything about it. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's plan to Save Japan? He's going to make sure children know how to use chopsticks. Other than that, he's done nothing. How did Abe get elected? He didn't. The LDP appointed him. His Grandpa was an important politician and now it's "his turn".

Re:Japan at Election Time

[The One and Only]

Wow, Japan sounds like a less annoying version of the United States, right down to the failing national pension system.

Re:Japan at Election Time

[Rocketship Underpant]

You're quite right. I live in Japan at the moment, and as far as I can tell, Japan is barely a democracy. There's one party that always gets elected and decides everything, and the average person neither cares nor talks about politics. That doesn't mean people don't have a sense of civic duty; au contraire, they're very active in the nighbourhood and in their kids' schools.

Japan's culture is different, and I suspect it's the possibility of public shame and humiliation that restrains corruption -- the minister who recently committed suicide over what in the West would be a minor scandal comes to mind. The people don't seem to "believe" in democracy, "making their vote matter", or foisting their views on others; they simply live and let live, and I think that's a healthier attitude than many people in the West have, who seem to think life is all about politics and electing a government that gives you what you want.

Re:Japan at Election Time

[Bueller_007]

1) There is constant political and election coverage of election on the web (try Yahoo, etc. which have whole sites dedicated to election info.) Only political candidates are banned from updating their web pages. There is not suddenly a blanket thrown over the entire Japanese internet media.

2) There is constant political and election coverage in newspapers. How did you forget about those? As I recall, Japan has the highest newspaper readership in the world.

3) There is a lot of political and election coverage on television.

4) Contrary to what you state, the purpose of posters and election vans is surely not to provide insight into a politician's campaign platform. They are merely for publicity--the extremely annoying but more sanitary and time-efficient Japanese equivalent of shaking hands and kissing babies.

5) The LDP has indeed been the dominant power in Japanese politics since WWII, but you must realize that the LDP is a collection of competing factions with different political views that ***run candidates against each other***. In addition to all of these competing factions within the LDP, there are currently five other parties who have members in either the Upper or Lower House of the Diet.

6) Japanese people may not talk about politics with YOU, but you can't necessarily misconstrue this as a lack of interest (especially on the part of older people). Voter turnout in Japan is consistently higher than in America. 67.5% in 2005, 56.4% in 2004.

7) No, of course Abe didn't get elected. At least not by the public. He's a *prime minister*, not a *president*. But don't act like he was just appointed by the LDP out of the blue. He was elected by the Diet (each member of which was elected by the public). You're confusing his role as prime minister with his role as president of the LDP. The two are not the same. This doesn't change the fact that he's a miserable bastard and a terrible leader, but you're absolutely wrong on your charges.

Re:definitely not!

[rolfwind]

agreed. i'm 27 soon and i've only just grown a brain in the last few years. before age 24, I just had no fucking clue, and worse yet i THOUGHT i did just like others my age.

Have you maybe though that this is you and a fraction of the rest of the population? I am tired of someone's experience being expanded onto applying to everyone as a quasi-universal experience.

I know people over 50 that still act and think like teenagers. And I know teenagers that have it together without acting like they are the masters of the world.

That said, advocating passiveness of the original parent is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. For one, if I wanted to learn how to cook - do I stay back, observe for years, and wait to do anything? No, I absorb one thing at a time, and then try it myself. I might fail the first few times, but I will become infinitely better much sooner than somebody who becomes an armchair cook watching Rachael Ray all day.

Second, passiveness and complacency is precisely the problem with politics. Let the more experienced people take care of it. Well, we have let others take care of it. Look at our country today - two big sides of "experienced" adults mostly with rigid adherence to "their" political party despite all else, our nation with neck up in debt with several looming financial disasters in the future our politicians believe they can either borrow their way out of or don't care since they'll be long gone by then, etcetera.

Yeah, I'd rather have people in as early as possible. Yeah, they will make mistakes early on. But I figure someone inexperienced at 18 making mistakes will recover and be more willing to change their opinions than someone who is 35, observationally experienced and practically inexperienced, and set in their ways.

Let's not forget, many of the "experienced" senior citizens are also voting to look out of their interests. It could and should be counterbalanced.

*You may notice my sarcastic use of experience throughout. I believe anybody who supports a particular political party in this day and age, particularly one of the big 2, has not learned anything of value from their so-called experience. There are good people in both parties, but that is inspite of the party's best trying otherwise. Since most people of any age fall in this category, a lot of experience is not being put to use anyway. I refer you all to George Washington's farewell address.

Re:definitely not!

[modecx]

Yup, and that's why we have democrats in office. By the time you hit 30, you realize that the sky isn't pink, that everyone isn't nice, and that bad people really do exist, and if you use logic rather than emotion, you give up the "everything is wonderful" viewpoint.

Hah, to some people, the only reason we have democrats in office is because the republicans would run wild, cutting social security, the poor excuse for medical assistance in this country, and you know, they'd piss on lawns and all sorts of shit.

I guess it's true: where you stand depends upon where you sit.
My guess is that you're sitting upon a medium sized, pineapple shaped hemorrhoid, often whilst in the seat of a late model German made sedan.

Mod this racist parent post down, please

[rockout]

Where to start? I was in the military and I think you pulled that first stat right out of your posterior; I certainly didn't see many airmen coming from a wealthier background than the average, nor did more than a handful of them have anything past a HS education. Your "read-between-the-lines" reference to African-Americans in this country is so blatantly racist that I can't believe at least 1 person modded you up for it. And by the way, the other thing I noticed about 18-22-year-old-airmen in the AF was how many of them took on two massive car payments that ate up most of their paychecks because they didn't have to worry about housing. Then they'd take on massive credit card debt on top of that, to the point where the AF had (and probably still has) programs instructing these kids on how to be financially responsible, teaching them even during basic training. It didn't seem to do much good, however; many of them still engaged in that type of behavior that did not seem to indicate they were well-educated or had familiarity with money in any way.

Re:definitely not!

[Anonymous Coward]

Suddenly i remember that biblical prophecy about the number of the beast and that everyone must put it in their foreheads to get what they want. Why does it seem SO similar to me? :(

Sorry to derail, but the Book of Revelation isn't a prophecy. It was a book written buy a guy as a message to the people about hope. Hope that the persecution under the Roman empire (at the time) would end soon. The book is basically nothing more than a cleverly written piece, with its message hidden behind extravagant symbolism, about how the Roman Empire would fall at the hands of the Christians, which it basically did.

Preachers like to throw it around to scare people, especially into donating money (or helping churches out in other ways). Why keep your money and put any value your own time if the world is going to end soon? It's an easy way to control people.

Your post in 10 years

[rockout]

I'm 37 soon, and now I finally have it all figured out. When I was 27, I hadn't figured out ANYthing, and worse yet, I THOUGHT I had grown a brain in the last few years, just like others my age. I know there's probably plenty of people reading this aged 27 who'll hate this simple fact. Your [sic] too young to have learned how to spell "you're" or to have much of a world view.

Re:Strange

[Lemmy Caution]

While things are changing somewhat, there are two cultural elements at work here: the first is a strong value on humility and modesty about one's self and one's family that pervades society. Bragging and bravado is not thought well of whatsoever. Also, there remains a lot of deference to age and experience: until one has proven oneself, there's little value in what one might think or say.

Re:definitely not!

[smoker2]

I totally agree.

How many 16 year olds have experience of getting up at 4am to go to work, year after fucking year, just to meet the payments on a mortgage/credit card/loan/gas bill/electric bill/whatever ?
How many 16 year olds can be trusted to vote for politicians that promise decent care for the elderly, and reasonable pension provisioning ?
How many 16 year olds actually give a flying fuck about anything except themselves, or things that affect them directly ?
The reason I mention 16 is because Bliars govt. has mooted the idea of lowering the voting age to 16, thereby increasing the number of impressionable people who are most likely to vote Labour, just because they don't know any better, and after all Labour has given them The Vote !

Yes, I realise that you can't tar all 16 year olds with the same brush regarding their opinions, but you can definitely say they haven't had to work for a living ever. And most of what govt. does is payed for by those who pay income tax. How can you make an informed decision on a proposed piece of legislation, if you have no concept of what it will cost YOU in terms of your pay packet/standard of living, and whether it's a good trade off.

I have been paying taxes and National Insurance to the govt. for the past 25 years, and what have I got to look forward to ?
My state pension as provided for by the NI payments will be so small as to be useless.
If I need hospital treatment in the future, I am likely to be refused because I smoke (despite the fact that in 25 years, I have never required hospital treatment, and have never clogged up accident and emergency because of a cut finger)
Where has my money gone ? Am I entitled to nothing I was promised and have payed for (in advance)?
And yet the govt. is happy to pay people to do nothing rather than work, to pay people grants for life choices, to give people tax breaks for life choices (marriage, pregnancy, multiple children) while I as a single white male, am taxed the most and receive the least (nothing to be precise). I agree with the principle of social support, but I don't agree with being treated as a cash cow for other peoples life choices. The whole social support structure was intended for people who had fallen on hard times, not to provide a nice side line for people who decided to have 6 kids, but couldn't afford to provide for them.

How can you expect a 16 year old to have a sense of grievance like that, without which, any political decision they make is rather shallow and open to manipulation.

Bah ! Get off my lawn !

Re:definitely not!

[the not-troll]

Let me get this straight - you say letting 16 year olds vote is a stupid idea because they don't understand the importance of having a pension in old age and to support it you point to how the current system screwed it up? You know, that's a really idiotic argument. I absolutely can't see

• 
  how letting younger people vote would make it any worse than it already is; or how they would have any more weight than any other societal group
• or why they should be worth less as human beings (by disallowing them the right to vote) just because they haven't yet enough "experience" (so you'd like to disallow them voting when they go to college because they haven't any real world experience yet?)
• or how them voting should be responsible for a crappy system which was created without them voting.

And don't even get me started on how completely worthless voting is because we only vote on "representatives" who don't instead of the real issues: I do understand it, but what good does that to me if it is not me who votes on it but someone who is paid to vote in a specific way? And even if they aren't paid tend to be informed about as well as your average person: If people are too stupid to make correct decision, what could make anyone think that they could possibly vote for good representatives?

As for your other grievances: I think a big part of the problem is simply the lack of education and perspective we provide your young. In fact, your education should start with yourself, realizing that all that talk about people having an easy life off of your money is absolutely nothing but propaganda, designed to divide the people (between "old" and "young", "haves" and "have nots", always saying that the other are unfairly better off) and make them toe the party line. Don't get me wrong, there surely are some people who intentionally misuse social support. But I really have yet to see any proposal which really curbs the misuse instead of simply making it harder for those who really have a problem. Indeed, one might compare it to copy protection: It makes legetimate use difficult while doing nothing to make illegal use harder after someone has taken the first hurdle.

As an aside: I don't really see why we still have to put up with this insane idea that people have to "deserve" to live. Applied to your example: You seem to prefer to let the children die because their parent can't afford them. I think that you work hard and "they don't" should really solved in another way than hoping for them to die or cruelly providing for them too little to live, too much to die. Indeed, your pension being so small doesn't come from teenagers voting for immediate pleasure but from the idea that old people should hurry up with dying and not leech money off of society. After all, if you worked all your life but haven't made millions to retire on, you can't have worked all that hard, can you?

Yeah, so?

[Guppy06]

"In Japan, 95% of people in their 20s surf the web, but only a third of them bother to vote."

Here in the United States, we get all the fliers and websites and spam and junk mail and road signs and everything else you could want, and we still get a similar result.

It doesn't matter how you "reach out to the voters" if the voters still don't like you.

that is above average education and wealth

[r00t]

You're pretty unaware of the state of humanity, probably because all YOUR classmates were going to college and could afford it.

The vast majority of people in the USA have never been to college, barely finished high school, and can't afford college.

There's nothing wrong with offering these people an opportunity. They have the right to refuse, though that might be a foolish decision.

Re:Bingo! My daughter's experience exactly.

[kklein]

1) Yeah, I was one of those token gaijin. If all he's doing is being the human tape recorder, though, that means he's crap. I knew people like that. If you're going to be serious about being an ALT (assistant language teacher), you at least make your own lessons. A big part of that program (I worked for the government; lately schools are turning to private companies) is about just providing entertainment for the kids in hopes that they won't notice that English class, which should be fun and empowering, is the most boring awful experience in school. I have a master's in English, requiring a lot of study of linguistics, but I did not know that there was a "rule" for when to pronounce "the" with a schwa and when to pronounce it with an [i] ("ee"). This is the kind of idiotic crap they teach in English class. If you don't follow the pronunciation pattern, people will still understand what you mean, but if you skip the article or use the wrong one, or use one when you shouldn't, they won't. The problem is, the latter only comes with meaningful communicative practice; the former can be crammed for a multiple-choice test. Ugh, don't get me started.

2) I saw horrible, horrible things in the education system here. Heartbreaking things. I, like much of the Slashdot crowd I'm sure, endured more than my fair share of bullying in junior high and high school, and made it clear to the kids in question that nothing would be tolerated on my watch. A loud and public dressing-down of two bullies who stood up from their desks, walked over and started punching a fat kid from both sides IN THE MIDDLE OF CLASS got me a private talking-to by the principal. Telling a kid to go home after he PUSHED ME AND TOOK A SWING AT ME (on the same day that he TRIPPED AN ELDERLY FEMALE TEACHER IN THE HALL) got me a lecture on how I don't have the right to deny this piece of shit an education.

My wife was a teacher at that school for 15 years. She once went on an exchange to a US high school. She couldn't believe how "adult" they were, and she came back horribly depressed (she quit only a couple years after).

As a college teacher, some of the crap I deal with on a daily basis is the stuff of junior high. I have to ask for quiet. I have people carrying on full-volume conversations across the room WHILE I'M TALKING (and not at the beginning of class--right in the middle). I have people who walk into class, plop down, and GO TO SLEEP (these are classes of like 25 people--not lecture halls). I point out that they don't have to come if they don't want. They say they'll be good. "BE GOOD." IN COLLEGE. It is unbelievable. And this is at a pretty good school, and I am (I hear) one of the more interesting teachers. I hope I never find out what it's like to be one of the boring ones.

3) Technology... I just can never figure out where this idea comes from. I'm sitting in front of a computer full of Taiwanese parts designed by American companies. I have a 50M DSL line that runs at 3M on a good day (see, those amazing numbers you read about the speeds here are the speeds AT THE POST--they have little bearing on what you'll get in your house--yay Japanese lack of consumer rights!). My phone is a Sharp (Japanese), but is almost as big as my first Motorola flip-phone in the US (ca 1998), the big difference being that there I could afford to talk on it. My bill is $70/mo, with no minutes. I can call my wife all I want, but I'm careful about using it for anything but. It's 3G, but I once read an article on MSN while waiting for the doctor and when I got my bill I found that that little web surf cost me $25.

When I want tech, I wait until a trip to the US, where I'll have more choice for less money. I just honestly have no idea what people are talking about, "technology" in Japan. Here, more than anywhere else, it seems, technology only serves the companies that sell it. Anything that might make something useful to the user is disabled or requires a trip to Akihabara, which has become a kind of manga

Give us a break

[fullback]

I've been in Japan for over 15 years. First, if you don't understand the language, you don't understand the culture. To the English teacher: your students probably have no interest in telling you all they know about everything. Getting into the typical argumentative/philosophical offered up by most low-time foreigners here is tedious since it always ends up being a pompous monologue on "This is how we do it in America, and you should too" nonsense. Unless you've been here at least 10 years and speak and read the language, you're languishing in the dark and still full of the preconceptions you got off the plane with. Knock it off, STFU and leave. Eighty percent are in Japan teaching English because they are social misfits who couldn't fit in with their own culture. After a few years they develop the "gaijin anger complex." They don't really know what the hell is going on around them and are angry at being trapped since they can't function in their own culture or Japan.

Instead of discussing the topic, they can only rant about how stupid everyone around them appears to them.

I find the Japanese election system a refreshing dose of honesty. Not the politicians - they suck everywhere - but the simple elegance of simply doing what most people in western countries won't admit to. They vote for whomever has the face or personality doesn't make them want to vomit.

The election "season" is short, weeks instead of years, and that is a blessing. Who really cares what a politician says he or she are going to do on website, a debate or a commercial... they never do what they promise anyway. When is the last time a politician did what the said they were going to do? They rely on your goldfish-like memory to get elected and re-elected. (Oh look! A bridge! I'll swim under it. Oh look! A bridge! I'll swim under it. Oh look! A broken Social Security system. I'll fix it. Oh look! Iraq. We're making progress)

To the next goldfish, I mean person, who thinks the Japanese have it wrong, all I can say is look at who the American public, in the self-proclaimed model democracy of America, elected in the last two elections. And you think the Japanese system is strange? Uh huh.