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Internet Phone Start-up Goes Belly-Up

westlake writes "The New York Times has a short piece on the failure of SunRocket, the second-largest internet phone service after Vonage, with 200,000 customers. Start-ups like SunRocket are under enormous pressure from the telcos and cable, which have marketing muscle and can bundle VoIP with Internet, TV, home security services, and so on. The start-up has only one product, and since they don't own the lines, they can't control the quality of service. Attracting subscribers can put a start-up deep into the red. Vonage added 166,000 subscribers in the first quarter of 2007, but lost $77 million."

11 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. Probably going to Vonage? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm guessing the SunRocket customers will be moved to Vonage.

    I wouldn't worry about Vonage so much. They have 2.4 million subscribers already. Plus, it's not as if the cable company or telcos offering VOIP service have that much more control over the quality of their service either. They're still stuck with the same problems everyone else is in regard to Internet traffic.

    For not having control over their traffic, I've been using Vonage for almost 3 years now over Comcast in Michigan and now Bright House Networks' Road Runner service in the Tampa Bay area and I have to say, the quality of service has never sucked so long as my Internet connection is working right.

    1. Re:Probably going to Vonage? by vtcodger · · Score: 2, Interesting
      ***I have to say, the quality of service has never sucked so long as my Internet connection is working right.***

      That's the issue, now isn't it? My Verizon DSL connection slows to a crawl from time to time, and drops me completely several times a week. I can download huge files -- Slackware CDs, VMs, etc. And I can surf the net. But I can't hold an Internet Radio connection open for more than an hour or two. Rebooting the DSL modem is a regular occurence around here. My son's Comcast connection in Seattle wasn't any better. He used Vonage because he didn't really care if he lost some calls. Worked fine when it was up. Wasn't always up.

      Our analog phone service OTOH is fine.

      I'm going to put my phone on the digital connection? I think not. My spouse wants a reliable phone connection. I'll confess to being cheap. But I'm not crazy. No Phone over IP here until one of the local ISPs is able to keep a line up reliably.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    2. Re:Probably going to Vonage? by chill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does it come with a get-out-of-jail free card?

      Does it automatically pick up any open hotspot, or do they have to be pre-configured?

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Probably going to Vonage? by superbus1929 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Key words: as long as the connection is working.

      I had a three day - THREE DAY - outage at my house, which took out my internet, TV, you name it. Therefore, since I'm a SunRocket customer (:'(), that took out my phone, too. Even better: my house is in a nice little recessed valley, which doesn't get good cell reception. Therefore, to call tech support, I would have to walk up the road about a quarter mile, and get one bar worth of reception.

      For a day and a half, this was the conversation:

      "Hello, yes, we're completely out here..."
      "OK! What exactly is out?"
      "My internet is out"
      "OK..."
      "And my Cable is out"
      "OK..."
      *talk a little longer. She asks for a phone number; I give her my cell, and instructions to leave a message if they get my VM, since I'm out of reception range*
      "Do you have a home phone number?"
      "Yes, but it's out too, thanks to the internet being out"
      "Do you have our Voice Over IP service?"
      "No, I use SunRocket"
      "Well, we don't do support for SunRocket, you will need to contact their tech support"
      "No, lady, I know you don't support SunRocket, but my internet and cable are out!"
      "You will need to contact SunRocket support"
      "No, this has nothing to do with Su--"
      "Thank you for calling Comcast! *CLICK*"

      After many call-backs and attempts to get her and the next three techs fired, I FINALLY - after three days - got someone out to the house, who explained why everything died: We were the victims of the most amateur attempt at stealing cable ever. It was laughable; shredded cable where he tried to put the connector on, cut wire everywhere, he eventually had the cable un-sheathed, and tied in together in a knot.

      But it took three days to get a tech, partly because it was a weekend, and partly because of SunRocket, and them absolutely refusing to help me because I DARED to have an internet service that Comcast didn't expressly approve.

      If anything did in my VoIP provider, it was this bullshit. And that leaves me with very unattractive options: Go to Vonage (who have their own problems), go back to AT+T land line, or go with Comcast's VoIP (a company who I'd dump completely if I had that option).

      --
      Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
  2. What can they do though? by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What could a third party VOIP telco really do to make a more reliable service when they don't control the line. Here's my idea, have a protocol that automatically detects dropped packets, and lowers the bitrate until there's not so many dropped packets, or none at all. Personally, I'd rather hear someone at 8 kbps then hear them at 128 kbps with every other word dropped from the conversation. It might sound like a bad kids walkie-talkie you bought at Walmart, but it's better than dropping words. And if you explain to your users why they are getting bad audio quality, and recommend ISPs in their area that don't have problems with maintaining good connections, then you can help to give the big telcos a reason to give good service to their customers.

    Also, make all the features free. Call waiting, call answer, call forwarding, call filtering, and whatever other features you can think up. Telcos charge a lot of money for these extras. By making them free (including them in the monthly rate), you're offering customers a big incentive switch from the other guys. And since most of these features cost very little once they are initially developed, it's a wonder why you would even want to charge for them.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  3. Turnover? by garcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Vonage added 166,000 subscribers in the first quarter of 2007, but lost $77 million.

    The turnover rate for Vonage is very high from what I've read. Is that added subscriber number on top of their pre-existing user base or is it just what they added in the first quarter? They could be hemorrhaging faster than they can bring in.

  4. Re:Anyone remember Dialpad? by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Leo was one of the hardest working men on television back in those ZDTV days. The guy was live on TV every day with 3 different shows, would do appearances on several OTHER shows, and still managed to find time to keep up with virtually every development in tech and try out tons of software. I don't think he slept.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  5. CallVantage is from Lucifer Himself by gelfling · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have AT&T CallVantage, their VoIP offering, against my will. My employer installs and pays for it.

    It is SHIT.

    The voice quality is average at best. The reliability is horrendous. At any time and for any reason the entire service drops out - nothing no dialtone, nothing. Inbound calls route straight to voicemail about 50% of the time.

    AT&T's tech 'support' is very simple - they tell you the only thing to do is to install he TA in front of the router behind the cable modem. But the Centillium MTA-1 is a locked down box and it's configured as a NAT device so it fucks up my Homelan every time someone looks for a DHCP refresh. So I have to put it behind the router instead and because of that tech 'support' won't 'support' it. It also consumes a great deal of bandwidth - about 128k. That's a LOT for quality that isn't crystal fucking clear. That's the same as two ISDN channels and for that much bandwidth I should be able to hear you sleeping on the other end.

    Phone companies will kill VoIP just like they have killed everything else. They'll crush all comers and then do what they do best. Fuck up the service and rape the customers.

  6. Re:As a Sunrocket Subscriber by gnuman99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not go with a real VoIP provider? A SIP provider like les.net? I've been using that service for a long time now. Termination (ability to call PSTN) is separate from DID (PSTN calls you), so you do not even have to worry about monthly charges if you have a local phone number because of DSL or something. Yes, some places do not allow you to have an unbundled service. :(

    Of course, Packet8 or other, less technical solutions are available.

  7. Thoughts from a former SunRocket employee by Isaac-Lew · · Score: 5, Interesting
    (Note: I left after a year in October 2006, after things really started going downhill).

    Basically, there's not one bigreason SunRocket went under, but rather a few smaller reasons that added up. The main one being that there was too much focus on bringing in management from the outside (mostly from AOL) instead of promoting from within. Also, employee retention was a big problem. When you start seeing early employees of the company quitting or getting fired, it's very demoralizing to those still there.

    I ended up leaving after I was involuntarily transferred to another department (which was supposed to be temporary, but my requests to go back to my previous department were ignored), I had a director-level non-techie jerk that had been hired from outside SunRocket placed as my immediate supervisor, and they decided to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars on network monitoring software when we in the process of doing the same thing with Nagios and/or OpenNMS & saved big money.

    To all of the former customers of SunRocket, as well as anyone considering hiring a former SunRocket employee: just about all of the non-management folks (especially the support personnel based in the US, & the technical groups) were the most competent group of people I have ever worked with, and the majority of them did care about providing the best VOIP service possible.

  8. Re:refund? by holysin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Easy, talk to your credit card company and dispute the charge (I paid $199 for 1 year of service, and the company went belly up after a month.) American express cards tend to be the best for this (6months since charge is where it starts to be a problem), but any CC should easily refund you the money w/n a couple months if you were just charged last month. Personally, in the vain hopes that sunrocket is in fact moving me to something else, I'm waiting to see what happens before I dispute the charge/mentall take the loss. The phone line works, and as I'm now living in England... Well, I'd like to keep an american phone line, and signing up for a new company isn't the easiest thing to do.