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Etoile Project Releases Mac-Like Environment
pschmied writes "Today the Étoilé Project released v0.2 of its Desktop Environment. Not only does Étoilé share user interface similarities with Mac OS X, Étoilé enjoys some source-level compatibility with Mac OS X as well. Many here undoubtedly remember NeXT, the revolutionary computer / development environment that gave rise to the first Web browser and later became the foundation of Mac OS X. Étoilé uses the FSF's own implementation of the NeXT development environment, GNUstep, making this a close technological relative of OS X. Screenshots and a source tarball are available."
Except for the fact that it has a top panel and a launcher, I don't see the similarity to Mac OSX (Not that I really use either of them -- just seen screenshots). Honestly, it reminds me more of WindowMaker using GnuStep apps. I think GnuStep is a great platform, though, and am glad that someone is finally puuting together a DM for it from the ground up, instead of using WindowMaker or similar. With the ease of development GnuStep gives, I guess the project could develop quickly if enough people get on board.
Put identity in the browser.
Finally, an open-source desktop environment whose developers understand that menus at the top are infinite targets and always in the same place and therefore are easier to hit.
It's not odd, it's just not what -you- would have done I imagine.
Some people feel it's more important to create something that gets used whether in open or closed source form than something be bound by an ideology.
And, of course, so was the world's first web server, without which the browser wouldn't have been very useful. :)
Wasting your time since 1997.
The reasoning is actually pretty good. They are building a services based desktop that also has a lot of components for which they want broad reuse to be possible. The FSF actually releases most of GNUStep under the LGPL. Given the age and status as an FSF project, I wonder if LGPL wasn't in part to address the requirements of GNUStep.
. Penguins Surely Ca
Parent is not a troll.
Ubuntu is more Mac-like than this. This is the perfect example of just plain not getting it. Copying a general layout isn't good enough. Approximations of a user experience defined by close attention to detail and sound design principles are simply bound to failure. Just look at the screenshots. This UI has the exact same deficiencies as nearly every other window manager for Linux--poor typefaces, rendered poorly and positioned poorly. Manipulation elements that lack refinement. You've got flat icons on a flat background shoehorned into a plain rectangular space.
The "About" screen shows it all. The background image is unbalanced. That's fine. But the shadowbox on top of it is precisely centered. Those are clashing elements. The corners on that shadowbox are too rounded to appear crisp and too confined to appear smooth or blended. The "let your environment grow" text looks goofy and childish, and it doesn't seem related to anything. It should be superimposed on the image, above the gradient bar, or it should be boxed into a separate branding box somewhere. Right now, it's superfluous text, and it's a typical, ugly Linux text experience to boot.
I don't mean to be an art snob or to demean the people who doubtlessly worked hard on this. I certainly don't mean to imply that Linux's goals should be as heavily slanted toward the aesthetic as, say, OS X. But if you put *yourself* in the big kids' pool, be prepared to take it. This is amateur, uninspired, and completely misses the boat.
I think some times that the Linux community can be too concerned with window dressing and not enough by substance. What make this Mac like isn't a skin deep sort of thing. It's about being able to write a program and have it run on both.
.Nibs (user interface files) with the Mac.
Now, there is such a thing as not having enough of an eye for Window dressing as well. That's one of the historic complaints about GNUStep. People complain that it looks too much like the Old School NeXT. That's probably a valid complaint. These guys are making progress. I'd rather have the UI look pretty in 0.3 or 0.4 than the development libs suck into perpetuity. On that front, GNUStep is reasonably Cocoa-compatible--to the point of being able to share
-Peter
. Penguins Surely Ca
The GNUStep libraries are LGPL. Anything can link to them. the LGPL is not supposed to be viral. Let's keep it that way.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
"Mac-Like" in this context refers chiefly to the fact that programming for this is very similar to Cocoa development on Mac OS X. The guts are quite Mac-like compared to writing for Qt/KDE or GTK/Gnome.
OTOH, I expect that your criticism is quite valid. You may want to consider contributing some art to the project, or submitting patches to make it more aesthetic. Personally, the way it looks doesn't bother me, but don't let my bland tastes stop you from scratching your itch!
Wouldn't it still be more accurate to say that this project is GNUstep-like? Or GNUstep-based?
Its similarity to OS X is purely by virtue of it using GNUstep, which is Cocoa-like. Credit for "Mac-like" would therefore go to the GNUstep project, at least in my book. I certainly agree with your assessment of the context of the summary, and I think that I simply glossed over the underpinnings. Perhaps my definition of similarity is too strict. I simply assumed that everyone knew GNUstep was Cocoa-like and that these people were making the claim based on their UI. It hadn't occurred to me that they would just take the "Mac-like" title from their GNUstep underpinnings.
Perhaps you should ask yourself what your problem is. You're the blustery, vitriol-spitting pig that makes Slashdot infamous as a hive of morons and assholes.
/. editors or developers) threw down the gauntlet and said "Mac-like" while coughing up a poor approximation. Success and failure are determined by their ability to capture the theme. It's abundantly clear that this is sorely lacking. If you disagree, then be a rational adult and do it. I've outlined a few of the many ways they fail to measure up. Demonstrate how they ARE Mac-like if you can. The summary put itself in with the big kids and it can't hold its weight. You can't seem to divorce yourself from your rabid feelings and don't seem to know anything about space and weight, to say nothing of design in general, so I won't hold my breath for an intelligent response.
Needing or asking for a blessing is irrelevant. This is a discussion site, in case you hadn't noticed. The summary makes a proposition. People disagree with that proposition. I'm one of them. The idea that people should get a free pass because they're not paid to do it is likewise absurd. These developers are not children. They don't get a writeoff for failing to capture the essence and for missing the point. If they want to invite comparisons to other products and want to put something in the public eye, then they can accept the consequences that result, which includes criticism. It's not an arbitrary, empty, personal assault, much unlike your comment.
"My personal taste" is not a factor in this assessment. They're called basic design principles and are sorely misunderstood and violated by people at large. That's why not everyone is an architect or a designer or a sculptor. It's an art of subtlety, but as you clearly personify, there's no one more dense than an angry Slashdotter. "My personal taste" would be to avoid purple and flowers. "My personal taste" would involve a more dynamic menu bar that goes beyond the Mac metaphor. But you see, these aren't the issues with the project from a design standpoint. Part of a fair critique is looking at what it purports itself to be and seeing how well-realized that is. I don't like Gothic architecture, but I can certainly admire the success of a great Gothic revival piece.
The "yardstick," further, is clear: they (be they
While you're at it, cook up some rationale as to how thoughtful criticism is demeaning.
A window manager is not a desktop environment; it is but one part of a desktop environment. GNUStep is an implementation of OpenStep, an open API that is based closely on the old NeXTStep environment from the old NeXT computers.
GNUStep is a decent implementation, though it's slow in development. It is based on Objective-C, which is (in MNSHO) a much better OO language than C++, Java, or C#. The foundation libraries are a little primitive by modern standards, but pretty clean and powerful nonetheless.
The window manager is the least of the operating environment.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Making something "cool" around GNUstep is something I've been hoping would happen for some time.
Objective C is not the best OOPL, and NeXTstep is not the best class library, but the competition that's actually got wide use is so appallingly bad that they shine like costume jewelry in a pile of muck. Being able to write code that will compile and run natively on OS X and X11 polishes it up a treat.
The looks and theme aren't the point. NeXTstep was awfully drab too but it developed a devoted following not because it looked cool, but because it worked well and consistently across all applications, and that was a result of the language and libraries as much as Steve Jobs' legendary attitude.