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Linux Foundation Calls for 'Respect for Microsoft'
kripkenstein writes "Jim Zemlin (executive director for the Linux Foundation) gave a talk at LinuxWorld saying that the open source community should stop poking fun at Microsoft. From the VNU article: 'Open source vendors have to recognize that Windows is here to stay and that together with Microsoft it will form a duopoly in the market for operating systems. This also requires that the Linux community respects Microsoft rather than ridicule it. "There are some things that Windows does pretty well," Zemlin said. Microsoft for instance has excelled in marketing the operating system, and has a good track record in fending off competition.'"
So he's essentially saying I should respect Microsoft for thinking up all the dirty tricks it used to get it's monopoly in the first place. ... I am not convinced.
Eviscerati.Org: All Hail the Eviscerati
So what he's saying is that Linux excels at being good software, while Microsoft only excel at marketing practices? Sounds like a double-edged compliment to Microsoft to me!
Poking fun at them is only a sign of overconfidence as Luke once said to Darth Vadar & Emperor Palpatine Your overconfidence is your weakness.
My work here is dung.
This also requires that the Linux community respects Microsoft rather than ridicule it. "There are some things that Windows does pretty well," Zemlin said. Microsoft for instance has excelled in marketing the operating system, and has a good track record in fending off competition.'"
Saying all Microsoft has ever done well is marketing and fending off competition is setting an example for not ridiculing them? I believe he's just being sarcastic.
Nah the summary states that Microsoft and Windows will form a duopoly. Sounds about right. :(
Microsoft operates in the real world - in the real world I only give respect to those who have earned my respect, or who have it by default and have done nothing to lost it; Microsoft fits neither of these to me.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Microsoft's marketing strategy is actually quite simple. It follows the triple E system. Embrace, Extend, Exterminate. It also has another strategy is the triple B system. Buy Out, Bloat Up, and Bilk.
You should also respect them for publicly claiming that Linux "violates" X patents owned by Microsoft.
And that anyone using Linux (unless specially licensed) owes Microsoft some money.
And for Microsoft's continuing attempts to kill / marginalize the ODF standard.
Yes, Microsoft deserves your respect and not your disgust. So says an executive from a company that has purchased a "partnership" with Microsoft.
That's akin to telling the viewers of Fox News that it's important to "stop making fun of liberals, because they've here to stay, and they've made important contributions to the progress of the world at large".
No matter how important a role some group plays towards making something else important work, the nature of humans and comedy are going to have everyone and everything important to everyone mocked constantly. And no matter how bad that paints a picture of the large groups who mock other groups as part of that process - people are going to be mocking eachother as long as mental associations can be made.
The message behind this suggestion seems to be more a message to "act more professional people, you're making us look like bozos". Yes... it's nice to imagine sometimes that a loose community of groups and individuals didn't have to act exactly like the kind of human grouping it is. But we are humans, and Windows IS fun to make fun of, and most of us say that as Windows users.
Yes, Windows has contributed much for everyday users of computers - it has made many things possible that may not have been possible otherwise, and it will continue to be the best path towards many kinds of progress for the everyday use of computers going forward for the immediately foreseeable future... but it's still contains an endless variety of deep flaws that both mock the underlying nature (DRM motivations, artificially segmenting functionality for legal/marketing needs) of the software, and the human nature that lies behind these things, and our reaction to them.
Ryan Fenton
Diplomacy is saying "nice doggie" while you look for a bigger stick.
Well much of their legacy tech is crap (see WinAPI). But .Net, DirectX, Visual Studio are excellent projects. So, I have no problem with MS tech. I do have a problem with their attitude towards others (that is, crush them and grab every single dollar in the market). MS got unpopular because of their actions, not their tech.
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
when they start respecting Open Source and Open Standards.
I too would respect the 400 lb. gorilla, though mostly by keeping my distance.
He's absolutely right on other points as well. If Linux rises to desktop prominence, against a competitor that has a 95% market share on the desktop (a practical monopoly), then the next logical step must be a duopoly, and it is doubtful that Microsoft will ever "go away." They will likely change the way they do business, like IBM did. Perhaps they will produce their own "open source" products, and then the Linux/FOSS community had better be ready for it, because they certainly won't be free software.
Expect it.
They've already proven the first axiom of business. Courts are the slowest moving thing on the planet. Business decisions will always outpace court decisions. That's how they got away with their illegal actions to slaughter STAC and Netscape. It didn't matter by the time the courts had decided. That's how Microsoft managed to pen a patent agreement with Novell, who won the MS-funded patent case against SCO, before the SCO case was even over. Did anyone notice that?
They're moving faster than anyone can litigate. Being right is not good enough here. You have to be right, clever, and decisive. If you can be ethical too, good for you, but ethical doesn't tend to work against an unethical opponent. Try winning a fair fight against a guy who is willing to kick you in the crotch and throw sand in your face some time.
Developers had better keep a careful eye on this gorilla, or you're going to end up working for him. Respect the gorilla.
--
Toro
I wonder what happened in between this article http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may 2007/tc20070525_325967.htm and today's comment.
t /may2007/tc20070525_325967.htm
Can you say "Big chunk of Microsoft change in Zemlins pocket"? I can.http://www.businessweek.com/technology/conten
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves. - August Strindberg
There are reasons to respect Microsoft, but it's not because of their marketing or the quality of their software.
One should respect MS as a relationship with MS could be compared to a relationship with any other vendor.
A typical non-OSS user won't exactly be enchanted if they see the OSS community treating another company like degenerates. They don't know the difference between MS and any other company, all they see is OSS devs/users treating a company like crap. If you take a one-sided view, that makes OSS devs/users look bad. That's probably the only view they'll be taking since they haven't worshipped at the church of FLOSS.
If you look at the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King encouraged all to be non-violent, not carry weapons, and not give any excuse for others to even mistake them for wanting to possibly even slightly exhibit any negative behaviour or thoughts. That's to take any power away from the enemy, as they can't say anything if there's nothing for them to point out.
Another reason is that truth can come from anywhere, and a good argument will stand no matter who makes it. If we simply expect everything out of MS to be garbage, then we will also miss any jewels, and that's just hurting ourselves.
Anyway look. Bottom line is to be better than MS, we can't let ourselves go by saying "Oh, well, MS fucks up, we can too, just not as bad." That's pretty asinine. Nope. To be better than MS, we have to actually be better than them, not stoop just as low as them.
Twinstiq, game news
It's nice to know at least one person here on /. respects me.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself!
This isn't the sig you're looking for...
Europe, 1940s: Allied forces have to recognize that the Nazis are here to stay and that together with Hitler it will form a duopoly in the world for colonising smaller and less developed countries. This also requires that the Democratic community respects Hitler rather than ridicule him.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish
This is called "pointless forking" and "not invented here syndrome" in the open source world. Feh, big deal.
The whole world is our beta tester
Google does this. Apple does this. Every open source project ever released does this.
We can release sloppy, sloppy code because we have a virtual monopoly
The open source version of this is "you have no right to complain because you got it for free" and "you got the source code so fix it yourself". Also, Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly on anything at this point in time. Also, there are plenty of other non-monopolists who release poorly-made products.
Security vulnerabilities make us money...
This is just FUD. Show me any proof that this is how Microsoft reasons. Furthermore, it's pathetic to blame Microsoft because people are stupid. Oblig. car analogy: For years, Mercedes cars have had problems with premature body rust. Would you consider this a scheme to get people to buy new cars more often?
When you partner with Microsoft, you are partnering with someone who will be partly an enemy if that makes more money.
This is mostly true for all companies. It's about making money, not being cozy friends with everybody.
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.