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Why We Need to Expand into Space
Zentropa writes "Why do humans need to explore and colonize space? To save the planet and our species, argues an opinion piece in Cosmos, an Aussie science magazine. It makes some good points from an angle you may not have previously considered; for example, it's in the universe's best interest to keep us around. We make things fun. 'So what if humans pass into history? It's not just a tragedy for us, but also one for nature. Without us, there is no one to witness its infinite beauty; no one to marvel at a sunset, revel in a view, or thrill to the breaking of a wave on a beach. As the late astronomer and author Carl Sagan once said, "we are a way for the universe to know itself". But we also deserve to continue because we have created things greater than ourselves. Not only scientific and engineering knowledge, valuable as this is -- we have also created new and beautiful ways to see the world through art, music, literature and performance.'"
Are we humans a benefit to the universe, as TFA suggests, or are we a detriment? Each point of view will certainly be represented in the posts that follow. FWIW, I think we are a benefit.
For those who think that we are detrimental to the universe, I suggest that the only logical thing to do is to kill yourself. Now. For the good of the universe.
Quit reading; do it now. Thank you.
John Sinclair: "No. We have to stay here, and there's a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics - and you'll get ten different answers. But there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on: whether it happens in a hundred years, or a thousand years, or a million years, eventually our sun will grow cold, and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us, it'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-tsu, Einstein, Maruputo, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes - all of this. All of this was for nothing, unless we go to the stars."
First off, there's zero evidence that anything would evolve to replace us. Humans have the biggest footprint on the world per member of the species, and there's absolutely no competition for that. Second, many kinds of art aren't tied to human systems at all. It's been said that math and science are the most likely things to be shared between different, intelligent races. If that's the case, then many alien species may find classical music to be very pleasing in its forms and the interplays of wavelengths. Ratios play into visual mediums in interesting and beautiful ways. If an alien were able to comprehend our language, they may appreciate our logical proofs, or our system of morals (like an adult watching a baby take its first steps or laughing at its naiveties, depending on how altruistic the alien species is).
Or, to be more concise, I disagree.
Ho-ly shit. What the hell is wrong with you people?
Do they raise geeks on shitty, whiny junior high poetry instead of Heinlein and Asimov now?! Damn! Moving forward into space doesn't have fuck to do with GOD or the "meaning of life". It's the next goddamn step. You all of you whiney bitches saying "oh, what's the point... humans are sooo terrible" are just refusing to help because you're to damned selfish. Selfish because you don't think your children, or your neighbors children, or anybody's grandchildren should get the same thrill you did when you first saw the Shuttle take off in grade school. Or the first moon landing. Or the first manned orbit. Or the first mother fucking flint scraper.
What assholes. No wonder you don't want the human race to expand into outer space -- you assume we are all just like you! Fine. Stay in Middle Ages Europe, afraid to fall of edge of the fucking planet. Yeah, it's hard. Life is hard. Get used to it. But ruin it for everyone else -- even in the future -- by not even trying? Pathetic.
I wonder why Carmack or even Branson are so interested? Oh wait, they must be "god freaks" or idiotic enough to believe that we are eternal as a species and there will be no Big Rip, Big Crunch whatever according to 90% of these posts. It sure as hell isn't gonna make them money while they are alive.
THIS is slashdot? If the human race goes out like a punk, I'm blaming all of you.
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It's about time I earned some negative points. Fuck.
It's been said that math and science are the most likely things to be shared between different, intelligent races. If that's the case, then many alien species may find classical music to be very pleasing in its forms and the interplays of wavelengths. Ratios play into visual mediums in interesting and beautiful ways.
;)
I agree on the science and math. I strongly disagree on the music - sure the ratio of tones might be a universal but there's a lot more to it that - music is tailored to our attention span for a start, things are repeated just enough for us to remember then, just before we get bored, a new theme is introduced. It seems unlikely that anything else would coincidentally have the same thresholds. And who's to say they wouldn't prefer their music at humming bird speeds? Or as a week long contest like a cricket match?!
As for the visual arts - they're even worse because our colour perception is so arbitrary. Whole paintings would likely look brown to an alien!
In short, I disagree back
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
You've got some good points challenging some of the unstated premeses of some of the other posters.
I do think that there is an objective reason to believe that a species which was truly alien would like some (not all) classical music more than modern music: it has fewer musical assumptions.
Specifically, Bach's counterpoints make very few assumptions of the listener - you won't have to understand any other art forms to appreciate Bach. Most modern music (Rap, Rock, etc) uses a shared language which has been built up over centuries, and has a whole lot of cultural assumptions built into it. To pick an example, Eminim's song "Stan," which used the Dido song as a backdrop, makes a bunch of assumptions of the listener: we have to understand obsessive fandom, we have to have an appreciation of the irony of using a sweet pop melody to tell a murderous story, and we get all kinds of references to Eminim's earlier work.
Most artists draw on the shared body of culture to express their art - it's a very rare piece which will seem beautiful to radically different cultures. I would put forth that some early Bach would be more likely to succeed in that than, say, Elvis Presley. Also the lack of lyrics helps: if you listen to Rap, or most Rock without lyrics, it's clearly missing something major - many of the older classical pieces are designed as instrumentals, and thus avoid the language barrier.
Just my $.0196 (adjusted for inflation)
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This is all a load of egocentric horseshit. Even a comedy writer like Doug Adams understood how unbelievable large the universe really is, and how unbelievably unimportant humans are in the scheme of things.
Religion and other romanticisms are just a mental sleight of hand to make up for the fact that the universe will uncaringly grind us all to dust.
We are far more dependent on the ecosystem of this planet than anyone seems to want to admit. That harebrained experiment with the "biosphere" a few years ago proved that one pregnant roach - or some other bug - can and will screw up the best laid plan.
All these pie in the sky engineering types should be forced to study cellular structure and function until they all realize that the most complex devices and processes they can design are tinkertoys compared to nature.
All this talk of consiousness and meaning and the perception of beauty is irrelevant nonsense as we haven't the slightest idea of the true nature and function of the universe. Every time we crack one mystery we find its built upon another that's an order of magnitude more difficult to understand.
What really needs to happen is for people to start planning on the mundane. Go hold a door open for someone and the human universe will be better off.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
It's not "egocentric", but "homocentric".
And maybe we should care more about "true nature and function of the universe", but I don't blame people for being "pie in the sky engineering types" when they realize how much their keen have accomplished when compared to those other people that insist man is insignificant and who claim to be trying to understand the Universe, but who give us back nothing but lots of more or less useless rhetoric.
Do you even realize the computer you are using and the network that connects it to millions of other computers forming the most powerful form of communication invented in the last couple centuries is the brainchild of those "pie in the sky engineering types"?
If what we have achieved disgust you so much, you are free to get back to a cave and live like our ancestors did before they had enough brain to aspire for more.
Man is not insignificant. Intelligence is the most important thing that happened in this little corner of the universe because, further down the road, intelligence is the only hope the very universe has to survive its cold death.
And don't worry. It sounds like a huge undertaking, but we have a good many billion years to figure it out. And, in the meantime, we will doubtlessly find brothers out there who are willing to share this effort.
Because we all know that when you take intelligent life out, the universe is nothing but a cruel, meaningless void.
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