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Comcast Hinders BitTorrent Traffic

FsG writes "Over the past few weeks, more and more Comcast users have reported that their BitTorrent traffic is severely throttled and they are totally unable to seed. Comcast doesn't seem to discriminate between legitimate and infringing torrent traffic, and most of the BitTorrent encryption techniques in use today aren't helping. If more ISPs adopt their strategy, could this mean the end of BitTorrent?"

16 of 537 comments (clear)

  1. Why not charge by the GB delivered? by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be simpler for the telcos to charge per GB delivered in addition to the size of the pipe?

    Give all your customers your fastest residential speed. Set your rate so 90% of your customers don't exceed the "monthly allowance" for your low-end rate plan.

    For the other 10%, bill them on a pro-rated basis based on how much they use. If they use 2x the allowance, they pay 2x. If they use 100x, they pay 100x.

    To prevent runaway bills, allow customers to set their own "caps" and "throttle-down speeds" that would kick in after the cap was reached. If a customer never wanted to pay more than $20, he could set his "monthly cap" at 80% of what $20 would buy, and set the throttle-down rate low enough that he could never use up the remaining 20% even if he was maxing out his connection.

    This seems a lot simpler and fairer than traffic shaping by protocol.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Why not charge by the GB delivered? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It might also be construed as profiting from illegal behavior.

      But at least if they were to do something like that, they'd move closer to returning to "common carrier" status. Any interruption or prioritizing risks their losing that status.

    2. Re:Why not charge by the GB delivered? by dpilot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do cable carriers even have common carrier status?

      If they do, throttling all bittorent is a clear violation.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:Why not charge by the GB delivered? by atamido · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't it be simpler to use transparent bittorrent caching? The cable modem endpoint lines would still be saturated, but their other lines would be fine. They would save bandwidth, and increase the quality of service.

    4. Re:Why not charge by the GB delivered? by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This seems a lot simpler and fairer than traffic shaping by protocol.
      There's no need for fixed transfer limits. And shaping by protocol is the problem, not the solution, since the content (including the protocol) is really none of the carrier's business.

      Timesharing CPU schedulers have been solving this problem better for, what, 45 years now? You don't look at the filename of the executable somebody is running to see if you will schedule it. You don't suddenly kill their process if they exceed 60 seconds of CPU time. Instead, you simply de-prioritize "cpu hogs" - or in this case, bandwidth hogs. If you are a bandwidth hog, your "prime time" bandwidth should fall very low - lower than others who *only* use bandwidth at that time - but at 3am it should ramp up again, since you're only "competing" with other bandwidth hogs.

    5. Re:Why not charge by the GB delivered? by jumperboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because, ultimately, the end user has little control over how much bandwidth they use. A Pandora's box was opened when the Internet was targeted as a way to deliver rich multimedia instead of text. Even the links featured on /. are usually a few bytes of content surrounded by many kilobytes of ads, spread over multiple pages. Compared to analog television and telephony, the quality of online video and voice communications is horrendous, but demand is only a tiny fraction of what it's going to be. The ISPs promote multimedia heavily when they sell connectivity, so they're just as culpable as the content providers. Throttling bandwidth at today's poor quality is not going to be a satisfactory solution for consumers. Increasing capacity is the only solution. I have a family of four, and when each of us want to experience the rich content we were promised (like VOIP, online productivity applications, video-on-demand, and streaming music), you're going to call us bandwidth hogs? I don't think so.

  2. Bitch, bitch, moan, moan by node159 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    God dam it so annoys me when the ISP's bitch and moan about the customers actually using the bandwidth they have signed a contract, and paid for to use.

    I have no sympathy for ISP that oversell their services and fail to invest profits in infrastructure.

    --
    GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
    1. Re:Bitch, bitch, moan, moan by gravij · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, except the contract (which the customer probably didn't bother to read) likely specifies that the customer isn't allowed to host servers on their connection (web, smtp, bittorrent, or otherwise).
      I'm not sure if bittorrent should count as a server. It doesn't fit into the traditional client server model at all. And if the only thing that makes it count as a server is the uploading of data then what about things like Skype or a multiplayer game?

      ISPs have got themselves into a bad spot by overselling and under cutting and the only way they can deal with it is by making their customers suffer...
  3. Most unpopular comment ever by saterdaies · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one will like this suggestion, but I think it's a valid one. ISPs should start charging for bandwidth used just like electric, gas, and other utilities. Right now, they have "unlimited" plans. This gives ISPs a great incentive to try and control what you do online. It just doesn't cost the same to serve the user who just browses the web (at maybe 100k a page which happens sporadically as users have to take time to read the page) and the user who decides that they want to use their cable modem as a movie downloading service - or even legitimate uses like downloading a new Linux distro every week. ISPs shouldn't care how you use your connection - they should only care how much bandwidth you use. ISPs shouldn't even care whether your bittorrents are illegal or legitimate. That has no affect on them. The amount of data transfered does. So, for the sake of network neutrality, for the sake of our freedom to use the internet how we want to use it, we need usage fees.

    1. Re:Most unpopular comment ever by Nasarius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And suddenly things like downloading videos from iTunes become a whole lot less attractive. Torrent-gobbling nerds aren't the only ones using a lot of bandwidth, and that will become more and more true in the near future.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
  4. Phone companies and electrical companies do it by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Metered billing is the easy part. In the long run, it's even easier than the cat-and-mouse game of fighting a particular popular protocol.

    The other features, like giving the customer control of monthly caps and throttling, will take a bit of work.

    One unintended side-effect is the effect on home users who run wireless networks. "Stealing" bandwidth from an inadvertently unsecured or under-secured wireless connection without permission will now be literally stealing, as the poor subscriber will be stuck with the bill. Expect a few prosecutions under theft or fraud statutes if this becomes commonplace.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Phone companies and electrical companies do it by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Little of which is the problem of the ISP. Internet access is now low in cost compared to most of our bills, but it's come to be regarded as a necessity by most of us. Therefore the market is ripe for a profit-hiking on the part of the telcos. But there are two things that prevent them all just simply bumping the prices up by a whopping margin. The first is that there may be issues in terms of price-fixing and anti-competitiveness if everyone just gets together and agrees to up prices. Secondly, there is the backlash from the customer at the sort of outrageous price increases that these ISPs would like.

      Confusing the issue by breaking things up and charging extra for service X, is a confusing and obfuscating way of adding artificial value to the service. Especially when with increasingly efficient and expanded infrastructure, bandwidth is getting easier to provide. We pay now for bandwidth and this system works. Establishing the idea that we have to pay extra according to certain types of traffic has no good basis in effort on the part of the ISPs. In fact, it takes additional effort to introduce this monitoring.

      It's about squeezing more money out of people and its based on collusion between ISPs. Customers should tell Comcast where to stick it.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  5. Re:solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But that would mean modifying all your routers -- which is [relatively] difficult for a large network. This solution is just an extra box plugged in at an appropriate point...

  6. Bittorrent encryption is flawed and too much. by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is flawed because the ISP just needs to look at your HTTP usage and see you connect to a tracker. They can even get the port you are listening on from there! Even if you connect to the tracker via HTTPS, they can still see you connecting to a known tracker IP. Once they know you are on a tracker they can start limiting all traffic that looks like it's encrypted with RC4, because apparently this is identifiable.

    It is too much because you don't actually need strong encryption to stop traffic limiting. Simply adding some random padding and XORing the protocol with the torrent's infohash would be enough - it is a private key random enough that they couldn't check them all. The RC4 encryption was seriously over-thought, and what did it give us? Nothing, because apparently it is still identifiable as bittorrent (or at least as RC4 encrypted traffic).

    The only solution is to replace the current encryption and always connect to trackers via Tor or some other encrypted proxy. And even then it wouldn't be perfect, because it's plausible they could start limiting traffic on listening ports that get a lot of traffic.

  7. Re:So don't use them. by HoosierPeschke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Find another ISP.
    I hate this line. I have two ISP providers I can even think of subscribing to. Comcast and AT&T. I'm too far away from the central hub for DSL (AND I LIVE IN A FSCKING SUBURB OF CHICAGO!!!). The government allowed this to happen. The government should fix this problem. I don't wish the the government to over step their bounds (which is where your second argument comes in, because we all know they'll screw it up). But please quit saying "find another ISP", the free market doesn't apply for most of us...
    --
    Mr. Universe: "They can't stop the signal, Mal. They can never stop the signal."
  8. Re:So THAT's what happened... by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This draws fairly interesting parallels with Tiscali and TalkTalk complaining about the Beeb's iPlayer here in the UK.

    They sold internet connections at lower than cost of the bandwidth, betting on the customers not using anywhere near their bandwidth entitlement. Then the BBC produced iPlayer, which is encouraging people to use up more of their bandwidth and thus causing the ISPs to make a loss. So the ISPs are demanding that the BBC pay them to cover the shortfall.

    To cut a long story short: the ISPs underpriced their connections and advertised them as "unlimited", were caught out when people actually tried to use what they had paid for and are now demanding that a third party bail them out of their mess. I certainly hope the BBC tell them to go screw themselves - I'm not going to be happy if part of my licence fee goes to propping up idiot ISPs who can't deliver on their commitments.