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Strange Asteroids Baffle Scientists

Raver32 writes to mention that two nearby asteroids may be evidence of a new class of asteroid or long eroded mini-world. Mineral evidence gathered using photometric data shows these asteroids to contain basalt not normally found in asteroid belt objects. "The lack of basalt and another mineral, olivine, in asteroid belt objects has long puzzled scientists. These two minerals would have formed the crust and mantle, respectively, of belt objects the size of Vesta or larger; theory predicts that more than half of all asteroids should be composed of one or the other of these substances"

31 of 125 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe they're not thinking out of the box. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's no asteroid....

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  2. Hint to the Scientists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When the facts don't fit the theory, maybe it's time to re-evaluate the theory.

    1. Re:Hint to the Scientists... by Lane.exe · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Or you do more data gathering to see if those facts are anomalous.

      /Undetermination for the win!

      --
      IAALS.
    2. Re:Hint to the Scientists... by wilder_card · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> When the facts don't fit the theory of evolution, maybe it's time to look for new "facts." Well here we go again. Actually facts against the theory of evolution would be really interesting to most biologists. They would mean we don't know something. However, just because a piece of information is posted on a creationist web site doesn't make it a "fact". It's actually the creationists who are looking for new facts; they just haven't found them. Consider this: it's actually much easier to disprove a theory than to prove one. If creationism were true, it would be glaringly obvious. Historically, scientists were dragged kicking and screaming to the theory of evolution, because nothing else fit the facts.

    3. Re:Hint to the Scientists... by geobeck · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe you should run Clippy...

      "I see you're trying to start a flame war by inserting pseudo-religious dogma into a scientific discussion. Can I help you with that?"

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    4. Re:Hint to the Scientists... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Funny

      So that's why Office takes up 525MB on my hard drive. It's all those files for Clippy to 'help' in every imaginable circumstance. I should turn that feature back on.

      "I see you're filling in the form to create a new company under Australian law. Can I help you with that?"
      "I see you're cooking steak for dinner tonight and are wondering about the sauce. Can I help you with that?"
      "I see you're looking to buy good house in an inner city suburb, but not one of those suburbs bought out by the rich, just a nice place with good nightlife. Oh - and the house needs to be free-standing with a garden and ideally some sort of city view. Maybe a pool nearby and definitely good public transport. Can I help you with that?"

      Go Clippy!

  3. More missing stuff by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 3, Funny
    From TFA

    "Roughly 99 percent of the stuff we expect to see [in the asteroid belt] is missing." I'm no astronomer but what with 'dark matter' and now this it seems that an awful lot of the universe is 'missing'.
    --
    init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    1. Re:More missing stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Most of it's probably hiding in a cave in southern Afghanistan.

  4. New class of asteroid by Joe+Random · · Score: 5, Funny

    two nearby asteroids may be evidence of a new class of asteroid One of the major distinguishing features of this new class of asteroid is that, when leaving the telescope's field of view, they reappear on the opposite edge.
  5. Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just wish people in other fields, politics, religion, law, philosophy, etc would admit when they are baffled as readily as the scientists do. For all the amount of explanations they offer and advance understanding of nature, these scientists seem to delight on admitting they are baffled at the drop of a hat.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by pete-classic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's the thing about Science. Figuring out that you don't understand something is considered an important part of progress. In those other disciplines it's the ultimate failure.

      -Peter

    2. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by dbolger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Would you vote for a politican who admitted that he was delightfully baffled by questions of how to fix the economy? Would you hire a manager who eagerly told people that he had no idea how to rally sales or improve worker morale?

      I can imagine sitting in court as the RIAA shows a jury undeniable evidence that I have downloaded and shared the newly released Bratz movie. I know I didn't do it, but turning to my lawyer to see his reaction, I am faced with his goofy grin and shrugging shoulders. Uh-oh.

      Science is the only field (that I can think of) where being stumped could be considered anything other than a bad outcome. That's what sets it apart from other fields.

    3. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by cathector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's not *being* stumped that's so great,
      what the parent is lauding is *admitting* when you're stumped.

    4. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by geekoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The other thing being the desire to disprove hypothesis of the new observation.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by EL_mal0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      what the parent is lauding is *admitting* when you're stumped.

      And trying to unstump yourself is the next necessary step. That's the critical part of scientific progress.

    6. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by russ1337 · · Score: 3, Funny

      >>> This is why scientists are generally not leaders.

      Oh yeah? Then Explain THIS GUY

    7. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by rthille · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd seen the quote before, but I'm reading "The Atheist's Bible" right now (gift from my wife), and it has the quote:

      Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

      Voltaire

      Absurd is certainly a good description for my feelings about religion...

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    8. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 2, Funny

      I will admit to you that I am baffled as to why the RIAA is involved in a court case concerning the downloading of a movie.

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
    9. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it was Steven J Gould who said that science is never right, but it is always our closest approach to right, based on our understanding at the time. That's why science is remarkable: it relies on people arguing, being not right, and figuring out what's more right based on the previous mistakes. People who have trouble admitting that something they previously supported is, in fact, wrong, are going to have a tough time in science. The problem with that is that most people don't work that way, and this aspect of science makes them deeply suspicious of it. We constantly hear people complaining about how every ten years all the facts about medicine/health/nutrition/what-have-you change, and they don't know what to believe. That's the *strength* of science, that it learns and accommodates -- dare I say evolves -- but it's perceived as a weakness by people who want to learn something once and never have to relearn it.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    10. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by king-manic · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure, because he's obviously the first honest candidate in recorded history.

      Would appearing baffled be enough? The current prez would then take the title. HE appears baffled at every question and then proceeds to answer a different one then the one asked.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    11. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by Darby · · Score: 2, Funny

      these scientists seem to delight on admitting they are baffled at the drop of a hat.

      Come now, they haven't been baffled at the drop of a hat since Newton ;-)

    12. Re:Wish more people would fess up their bafflement by GreatDrok · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I just wish people in other fields, politics, religion, law, philosophy, etc would admit when they are baffled as readily as the scientists do. For all the amount of explanations they offer and advance understanding of nature, these scientists seem to delight on admitting they are baffled at the drop of a hat."

      OK, I'll admt it, I'm a scientist (hangs head.)

      Anyway, yes, you're right. One of the things that scientists have to learn as part of the scientific method is to admit when they don't know something, or were wrong about it and need to revise their ideas. But this isn't something scientists should be ashamed of, it is something we enjoy because it is all part of the discovery process. Non-scientists seem to have so much trouble understanding the ease with which a scientist will happily admit to being wrong or being surprised or baffled or just plain shocked and stunned. To a scientist, these are all opportunities to do more research and learn more. I love it. There is nothing better than realising that you have discovered something that no-one else in the world has ever seen. I've done it a couple of times and it is a fantastic thrill.

      --
      "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
  6. Re:interesting by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Or, some of these objects could be formed as a result of collisions. Just Googled Vesta, for instance, and at 525 km, it's pretty big for a projectile thrown clear from an impact:

    Vesta is the most geologically diverse of the large asteroids and the only known one with distinctive light and dark areas -- much like the face of our Moon. Hubble images have revealed a diverse world with ancient lava flows and a gigantic impact basin that is so deep, it exposes the asteroid's subsurface, or mantle. Vesta's surface shows a geology similar to that of terrestrial worlds such as Earth and Mars. Ground-based spectroscopy of Vesta indicates regions that are basaltic, which means lava flows once occurred on its surface. This is surprising evidence that the asteroid once had a molten interior, like Earth does. This contradicts conventional ideas that asteroids are essentially cold, rocky fragments left behind from the early days of planetary formation.

    Seems to me that if some of these basalt asteroids are chunks left over from a collision, the target of the collision would likely be in bad shape. Could the remainder of the Main Belt asteroids be the pieces of the target? Sign me up to go check 'em out...

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  7. about missing matter by superdos · · Score: 2, Funny

    maybe that little triangular spaceship finally made his way and succeeded blowing some asteroids up.

    --
    Faster than a Speeding Byte!
  8. Re:so let me get this straight... by He+Who+Waits · · Score: 2, Funny

    Global warming.

  9. wtf? by sensei+moreh · · Score: 2, Informative
    From TFA:

    The asteroids, (7472) Kumakiri and (10537) 1991 RY16, were found to contain basalt, a grey-black mineral Basalt is a rock, not a mineral!
    --
    Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
    1. Re:wtf? by finarfinjge · · Score: 2, Informative

      Huh? Did you read the link you posted? The op is entirely correct. Basalt is NOT a mineral.

      A mineral is a naturally occurring homogeneous solid with a definite (but generally not fixed) chemical composition and an ordered atomic arrangement. Basalt is comprised of labradorite feldspar (a mineral), augite (a mineral), hypersthene (a mineral), olivine (a mineral) with minor biotite, magnetite, spinel, ilmenite and horneblende (all minerals). It is distinguished from gabbro (a rock) by being much finer grained. (From Manual of Mineralogy (after James D. Dana), 19th edition, Cornelius S. Hurlbut, jr.).

      Basalt is NOT a mineral. It is made up of minerals, but it is NOT a mineral.

      Cheers.

      JE

  10. This is odd by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting
    From the article:

    "The lack of basalt and another mineral, olivine, in asteroid belt objects has long puzzled scientists. These two minerals would have formed the crust and mantle, respectively, of belt objects the size of Vesta or larger; theory predicts that more than half of all asteroids should be composed of one or the other of these substances"

    It would appear as though the above 'theory' is incorrect if, up until now, very little basalt has been detected. Perhaps the material in the asteroid belt never went through the planetary formation stages necessary to form such rocks (volcanism).


    The presence of this new class of material might suggest that the asteroid belt is made up of the remains of a small planet (moon perhaps) plus lots of additional garbage that never formed a planet.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  11. Re:Applying for grants... by haystor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll raise your cynical view of the world: Funding is easier to secure if the research is assured to support specific answers.

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    t
  12. Re:interesting by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Informative

    Good ol' Theia :). IIRC, the Science Channel will be showing "What if we had no Moon" on the 28th (next Tuesday). I'm I'm remembering correctly this does a great explanation of the Giant Impact Theory (though the impactor is referred to as Orpheus on the show - both Theia and Orpheus are two different names used for the same thing, though Theia is a little more common).

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  13. Science as religion by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Non-scientists seem to have so much trouble understanding the ease with which a scientist
    > will happily admit to being wrong or being surprised or baffled or just plain shocked and
    > stunned.

    Many non-scientist just view science as a new religion, one that just happens to be much better at delivering miracles that the older religions. So they expect scientists to act like priests, and utter absolute truths.

    When discussing science versus religion, it is not the religious nuts I find most annoying, but those laypeople who believe in science as if it was a religion.

    If you crave the Truth, go to a priest. Any of them will do, they all have an absolute truth to offer. But truth is no matter for science. What we can offer is predictions with a better track record than anyone else.