Arm Wrestling Machine Recalled for Breaking Arms

Lucas123 writes "After three players broke their arms while wrestling with a Japanese arcade machine, the manufacturer promised to remove all 150 of the mechanized appendages. Said game maker Atlus' spokeswoman: "The machine isn't that strong, much less so than a muscular man. Even women should be able to beat it.""

Comments

"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my. Even considering the obvious advantage that men typically have over women in regards to physical strength, that's a pretty stupid thing to say in this day and age. Hell, and I'm not even a PC-nut.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[myth_of_sisyphus]

I know a girl who's an expert in Krav Maga. She teaches it for a living.

I feel much safer with her when I go out, and I'm 6'7" and weigh about 17 stone.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoot, I'm more liberal than most and I think the PC bullshit goes too far.

So the average man is stronger than the average woman... but it's still not OK to acknowledge that?

I took a sociology class with a crazy liberal lesbian instructor (she was nice and earnest, just not a good teacher). Anyhow, we were shown some statistic about women vs. men along the lines of "Men are stronger [taller, something like this] on average". In refuting the (larger) argument, the instructor pointed to this particular statistic and said "It doesn't take into account that some women are stronger [taller, whatever] than some men!"

I just wanted to scream out "YES IT DOES!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT AVERAGE MEANS??" but it was a lost cause; most students were just as gung-ho about being "equal" and "correct", etc. I didn't have the energy to refute every problem in that class.

Really, pointing out facts should not be frowned upon. If, on average, men are stronger than women, why shouldn't one say that? Using said facts to oppress would be a problem, but facts are facts, no matter what happen to be our beliefs or prejudices.

I mean, if I say "People hailing from Western Africa have darker skin than those from Western Europe", is there anything wrong with it? Of course not. It just becomes a problem when I add, "and so we can subjugate them." I leave it up to you to decide who "we" are and who "they" are.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Just Fucking Use Real Measurements

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wanted to scream out "YES IT DOES!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT AVERAGE MEANS??"

Evidently, you don't. An average is a distribution's first moment -- its center of mass. Depending on the distribution, the average can be a radically poor approximation. For instance, consider a distribution that roughly takes the shape of a torus about the origin. The average will be near the origin, despite being nowhere near any of the data points. So while the the torus might be might be (0,0,0) on average, the "average torus point" is not.

While the study might be factually true, its methodology could produce insignificant results.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, when I need help lifting a heavy object, I look for the nearest woman. What a load of shit. And when I feel like fucking someone, I go trying to pick up other men. Yeah. Wouldn't want to be "sexist" you know.

Politically correct people should be beaten to a pulp, on sight (by a man). The world will be a much better place.

I mean, look at the bullshit you wrote (paraphrasing):

Even though men are usually stronger than women, it's stupid to say that.

Yeah, I guess FACTS and REALITY are for stupid people. Gotcha.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[beav007]

Did you ask her how many Olympic events have men competing against women?

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[fractoid]

Spend less time failing to understand mathematics and more time in the gym, and maybe you'll be stronger than the average woman. "On average, men are stronger than women" is a fact, if on average, men are indeed (as has been measured) stronger than women. Whether it's a good metric or a relevant argument is an entirely different matter.

Since this is Slashdot, I'll put it in terms you may be able to understand: I have a white sports car. It's decently fast. If someone were to research statistics of cars' top speeds, and find that on average, red cars are faster than white cars, it's irrelevant whether my white car or any other white car is faster than most red cars, because my car isn't an average white car. The statistic says that if you pick a random white car and a random red car, chances are the red car is faster.

Likewise, if it's been shown that on average men are stronger than women, and you pick a random woman and a random man, odds are that the man is physically stronger than the woman. That's not discrimination, it's statistics. Anyone telling you different is wrong.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Derosian]

In this case Average is a very useful for the point of which it is pointing out. You can't refute his saying that with your definition, but you can refute the study with an argument about their methodology as you seemed to hit on the last bit, but in case you were wondering yes, the methodology behind most studies involving men and women studies are based on a average of 100-1000 randomly chosen men and women. Who are then compared physically.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[sumdumass]

I have seen studies where you take two similar shaped people of opposite sex, measure their strength and put them through identical training programs and then measure the improvement. The men win out almost every time. In case your wondering, basic training in the military has shown this repeatedly to the point the to this day certain skills are done differently for women then men. Things like the style of push ups and sit ups and more.

There is biological proof the we are made differently. And this isn't just limited to the eggs women carry around. This goes into diseases that aren't common in one sex or another as well as simple things like processing alcohol. Ever wonder why it took less for most women to get drunk? It is because they process alcohol differently then men and almost all women have that issue.

As to biological differences concerning strength, Testosterone is one key element that is produced more in men the women. If I remember correctly, this and one other agent account for men's ability to product muscle with less effort which give them the stronger then women appearance. It isn't that a woman cannot be stronger then a man, it is that it take more effort for most of them barring outside chemical and medications.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[identity0]

I think you missed the point... the fact is, you probably shouldn't insult the people who were injured by your (apparently defective) product.

And yes, it would be considered an insult in Japan, where the gender roles are more strongly defined than in the US.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, this is slashdot. The average male slashdotter is weaker than the average woman, and you KNOW it.
It would be fair to compare to the average female slashdotter, but its existence it's just a myth.

Re:"Even women should be able to beat it"

[Koiu Lpoi]

The center of a Torus is hardly "insignificant". Indeed, it's one of the defining parts of the torus itself. To use your example, the average did not give us quite what we wanted, but the information is definitely still useful.

Re:theory and practice

[Anonymous Coward]

The machine may not be stronger than a human--but it is uncompromising. If you arm-wrestle against a human, they will: (a) get a bit tired, and (b) usually not purposefully break your arm. That is, they will only push as hard as is necessary to beat you, and if they see that you are hurting yourself, they can modify the force and direction of force so as to not hurt you.

If you are going up against a machine, it will just keep pushing back with the same strength, even when your eyes are saying "I give up!"

Strapped on?

[pembo13]

Contestants arms strapped to the machine? Is letting go not an option? There must be fair amount of pressure before one breaks their arm in such a fashion - it isn't some high impulse force.

Re:Strapped on?

[arth1]

These are Japanese. It's better to lose arm than face.
Seriously, it's incredible how much pain and suffering some people will endure without admitting it, and in some cultures this is more pronounced than in others. And losing a manhood challenge to a machine implies you're not even as much man as the machine, i.e. less than zero. So you grind your teeth, force a smile, and endure. And endure. Until your arm breaks, if necessary. At least then, it's not your muscles (i.e. manhood) that are inadequate, and people can hardly fault you for stopping at that point.

Re:Strapped on?

[Futselaar]

Really? I have been living in Japan for a while now. I guarantee that breaking your arm rather than letting go of a dumb arcade game would be considered a sign of astounding stupidity by the vast majority of the population. I'd wager that this has nothing to do with culture, manhood and honor, and everything with some dumb drunk salarymen egging each other on. Fratboy-type dumbasses are, depressingly, a universal occurrence around the world.

You have been pwned

[bwen]

I think its great the company spokesperson has the cojones to say that "even a girl can beat it." Their machine has broken people's arms and now they make fun of the people who have sustained injuries. Do they want a lawsuit?

Re:You have been pwned

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they want a lawsuit?

This is Japan, where people are far less likely to sue than in the USA.

Re:how is this funny?

[jamesh]

Because it's _someone else's_ pain and anguish, obviously.

It's funny on many many levels (think: Tough guy reporting to hospital with a broken arm trying to make up a story to pretend his arm didn't snap on 'sissy' level), but obviously unfunny on others.

Obviously you can only see the unfunny levels... poor you.

(Curiously, your post is rated +5 Funny :)
(Well... it was before I hit 'Preview'. Now it's only rated +4 Funny)

Re:even women?

[heinousjay]

To be sure there are exceptions, but in general, men are larger and stronger that women. Life is not a Joss Whedon TV show.

Re:Average vs. Typical

[fractoid]

It seems like you care more about the fact that you can add conditions to a true statement to make a new, false statement than you do about reading what I wrote.

Adding 'supposing there are weak females who bring the average down below the male average, removing them from the survey would result in females being stronger than males on average' is true but irrelevant. After that you've basically listed a bunch of reasons that women may be considered more physically fit than men, and then, in a non sequitur, conclude that the original statement doesn't stand. That's as nonsensical as your assertion that average is a "subtle concept" and that "typical" is better. If you think mode is a better measure of central tendency than mean, then by all means find some data about modal properties of humans and post that, but please don't try to redefine mean as mode just because you like it better. To be honest, your post sounds like you're trying to impress a feminist friend of yours who doesn't understand statistics.

If you want actual facts, try this. According to this research, on average:

• Men are taller, heavier, leaner and stronger than women
• Body weight does not correlate with knee-extensor muscle strength
• Heavier men are stronger, the same does not hold true for women
• Men have larger muscles than women
• Men and women have statistically similar muscle strength per unit area
• In both men and women, larger muscles are stronger.

None of this has any bearing on whether an individual will be suitable, successful or competent in any scenario. It's just useful information when dealing with, or predicting future observations about, populations similar to the sampled one. Trying to state otherwise is ingenuous.

Re:Average vs. Typical

[G Fab]

jesus christ, look at this inflated diction.

The average woman is dramatically weaker than the average man.

We're not talking about extremes. You are just out of touch with reality, which judging by your ridiculously overwritten response, is because reality threatens you.

Go check out any source where men and women are graded on physycal fitness. The Army is a terrific example. They test hundreds of thousands of men and women each year on physical fitness. Though most soldiers are in pretty good shape, a huge swath of society is represented. Pregnant women, fat women, 40 year old women, and men of various capabilities are tested. The minimum standards set by the Army are easily attainable, and represent below average performance.

Look at the pushup standards that would indicate an average female soldier as opposed to an average male. In running and sit-ups, there isn't a huge difference in performance, but in push-ups, where testosterone is linked to performance, average women are far less than half as strong as average men.

to join the Army... just to get through the door, men have to do 14 push-ups. Women: 1 push-up.

This isn't anecdotal, this is pretty conclusive stuff. Women aren't anywhere near as strong as men, as a general rule.

Re:Beware stupid people

[necro2607]

"Companies shouldn't be punished for people's stupidity."

Tell this to the people who demand warning labels for every possible minor risk or inconvenience... ;)

That just makes me instantly envision people bitching about 'missing' warning labels. "Hey, I nearly burned my tongue on this coffee! There should be a warning on the cup about how hot it is! ... Even though I can plainly feel the heat through the cup, not to mention the fact that I can see the steam coming out of the lid..."

Re:even women?

[Hijacked Public]

But boxing isn't a strength contest. Nor is fighting in general.

It is demonstrable that at a given body weight the average male will have more upper body muscle mass than the average female. Women also have a higher minimum safe body fat percentage. Among those who specifically train for strength, the difference is magnified. To use the overemphasized metric of flat barbell bench press, 400 lbs is a rarity among women and anything over 300 likely involves genetic freakiness or steroids.

With men, if you aren't benching 700 pounds you really don't stand out from the crowd. And there are multiple guys who are just trying to stay in shape pressing 300 lbs in every gym in the world.

This is why most jobs that require some demonstration of strength (police, firefighters and such) have different standards for men and women. That ultimately makes no sense to me but it must be necessary to meet gender related employment requirements.

Re:I see her point too, though

[Anonymous Coward]

As a counterexample to your counterexample I remind you that infants are not women, they are children.

Re:Are you out of your mind?

[HanClinto]

*whoosh*