Slashdot Mirror


DynDNS Drops Non-Delivery Reports

jetkins writes "In an email to subscribers, DynDNS announced that they will no longer deliver locally generated non-delivery reports (NDRs) from any MailHop systems. MailHop is a multi-faceted service offering in- and outbound relay services, spam and virus filtering, and store-and-forward buffering. DynDNS makes it clear that they are aware that this goes against RFC 2821 Section 3.7, but explains that in their opinion the increase in spam volume, and the use of NDRs as a spam vector, means that the value of NDRs is now far outweighed by their potential for harm. (DynDNS also points to the far greater reliability of email systems now than when the RFC was approved.) The company notes that other ISPs have quietly dropped RFC 2821-compliant NDRs. Will their public move start a flood (mutiny) of ISPs following suit? Should they have made efforts to have the standard changed instead of defying it?"

4 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Standards and Implementation by LithiumX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tried and true standards make the net go round, but the most effective enhancements or changes to standards usually don't come from a committee working out best practices - it comes from individuals making hard choices on what to support. If those changes turn out to be beneficial, then they become adopted as new standards.

    Going against standards can cause a bit of chaos as well, which is why it's good to avoid deviation - but sometimes a deviation makes sense, and you do it. Publicly announcing this (non-critical) deviation, and explaining exactly why, is the proper way to go about it.

    --
    Do not confuse "Freedom of Choice" with "Free Will".
  2. Are DynDNS cluebies? by jani · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With this reliabity levels of modern e-mail systems being substantially higher than its past predecessors, the practical needs for this NDR messages are nil. These practical, anti-spam, merits far outweigh the prevailing RFC 2822 technical requirements.


    Excuse me, but due to the vast amount of spam handling, modern e-mail systems are substantially less reliable than they used to be.

    If you redirect email for your domain name to Hotmail, chances are good that it will disappear without a trace. (No NDR, not in the spam box either.)

    Someone else already mentioned the problem of people typoing email addresses. This is a common problem.

    Email can be bounced for other reasons, too, such as a full mailbox, or that there is a relaying mail server (yes, DynDNS, they still exist, and in abundance!) which gives up on delivery after a week of timeouts for the destination host.

    And so on.

    Someone at DynDNS needs a good whack with the clue bat.
  3. Re:Finally, a service provider with a clue... by jetkins · · Score: 5, Informative
    A large proportion of Joe Jobs are made possible by lame endpoint SMTP servers which accept incoming mail, close the connection, then check to see if the recipient is valid, and generate an NDR to the address specified in the headers, which are too easily forged.

    A properly-configured endpoint server should check addressee validity during the SMTP exchange, and reject the transfer before it even gets into the system, so the spammer's attempt goes nowhere and "Joe" doesn't get an unwarranted NDR.

    Of course that doesn't help proxy providers like DynDNS, unless they have some way of authenticating their clients' valid addresses in real time via a direct connection or regular updates.

  4. NDR's are not evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Throwing out the baby with the bath water comes to mind when I read this...

    The problem is not with NDRs. The problem is that their servers *accepted* the message that eventually had to be NDR'd in the first place, then after accepting responsibility, decided they didn't want that responsibility, so discarded mail that they promised they would deliver.

    If their servers checked validity of local recipients, scanned and filtered the message, etc BEFORE accepting it (via 2xx series SMTP accept response), and instead properly REJECTED it with a 5xx series response, these messages would never be bounced. The NDR mechanism is not at fault - rather, the fact that they can't properly configure their servers to reject the message up front is at fault. If you properly REJECT the messages at the SMTP level instead of accepting the message for delivery, the only thing left to NDR are perfectly valid cases, such as mailbox over quota, etc.

    Once you *accept* responsibility to deliver a message (via a 2xx series SMTP response), you MUST deliver it somewhere, else you have shirked your responsibility - either deliver it to it's destination, or bounce it. To do anything else would be to LOSE mail, which is the ultimate sin of any mail server. The key is not to throw out bounce messages, but to minimize or eliminate unnecessary bounces in the first place by rejecting instead.

    Note that by properly REJECTING the message, you also effectively defeat most spam bots, since they can't "bounce" the mail that you reject to the "real" local sender.

    I always hate it when providers like this take the short cut of *losing* mail intentionally rather than fixing their broken systems to work right.

    One caveat to my comments - unfortunately, some mail software is symply not geared toward todays Internet, such that it can do the scanning and filtering of messages realtime fast enough to prevent a sending server from timing out while it's doing this scanning, so they queue the mail to process it for spam, etc later. Using such software is the first mistake most places make, and is the real reason why there are so many NDR's in the first place.