Hewlett-Packard Brings Linux To Select Desktops

Tatey writes "Hewlett-Packard, one of the world's largest PC manufacturers, has announced it will start selling Linux-based PCs aimed at the consumer market ... in Australia. For the time being it appears the HP Linux models will only be available down under, with prices starting at $AU600 (just under $500 USD). 'This PC is a low-end business PC. It comes powered by any of a variety of AMD processors. These range from the 1.60 GHz AMD Sempron 3000+ processor to the speedy 2.8 GHz AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 5600+ processor. The dx2250 can hold up to 2GB of RAM. For storage, it maxes out with a 250 GB hard drive. It comes with a variety of optical drive options, ranging from ordinary CDs to a DVD+/-RW LightScribe, Double Layer/Dual Format drive. At this time, it is not clear exactly what options HP will be offering with the RHEL-based system. Previously, HP had offered this desktop computer with a choice of Vista Business, XP, and FreeDOS. In the latter case, this was almost always replaced by users with a Linux distribution.'"

Comments

Nice.

[cp.tar]

While RHEL isn't every Linux user's choice, at least they're now getting a real, usable OS instead of FreeDOS.

Re:Nice.

[morgan_greywolf]

RHEL Workstation isn't bad. It has a lot of the desktop usability of Ubuntu and support from Red Hat. HP and Red Hat have a long-standing business relationship as HP already sells workstations and servers with RHEL pre-installed.

Don't miss....

[martin_henry]

...the two most important words in the summary: in Australia.

What I want to know is...

[VE3OGG]

What is the cost of this computer with XP/Vista in comparison. We have seen this happen before where Dell shipped FreeDOS systems that actually cost more than with Windows (which means there is definitely malarky going on there).

I must applaud both DELL and HP however, for starting to realize that they should offer the customer what they want, and not what some third party dictates them to.

Re:What I want to know is...

[cp.tar]

Well, I've seen HP laptops with FreeDOS. And they're usually priced lower than comparable HP laptops with Windows.

Of course, I cannot guarantee that they're comparable in every single component, but that's my general impression.

Re:What I want to know is...

[EvilRyry]

However buying the machine with Windows+Works+other BS, then returning the said software for a refund as described in the EULA usually works out to be much cheaper than any other option.

Re:What I want to know is...

[ricegf]

HP is way ahead of you. When my wife purchased one a few months ago, it came with *2* EULAs - Microsoft's and HP's. Microsoft's promised a refund if you reject their EULA, and HP's limited Microsoft's promise to a refund for all hardware and software only.

In other words, you can return everything or nothing. You can't return just the parts you don't want for partial credit anymore.

Re:What I want to know is...

[westlake]

We have seen this happen before where Dell shipped FreeDOS systems that actually cost more than with Windows (which means there is definitely malarky going on there).

Mass market retailer sells a gazillion Windows system bundles.

Many will ship pre-loaded with $200 OEM MS Office. Many will ship with upgraded wideo and other options.

The plain vanilla FreeDOS PC sells in purchase orders of 100-1000 units. No problem there.

It is servicing the Geek who expects mass market consumer pricing and service on a "naked PC" that has no consumer market that costs you money.

Re:What I want to know is...

[Skapare]

... Dell shipped FreeDOS systems that actually cost more than with Windows (which means there is definitely malarky going on there).

The "malarky" is some combination of bulk deal with Microsoft for a lower per-unit price, money received to insert tryware and other junk, and economy of scale of both sales and support for Windows based products ... passed on to the buyer in the form of lower costs. Compare that with Linux where the software is mostly free, cuts off the tryware and junk revenue stream, and requires a more expensive smaller scale sales and support department (or subset of sales and support trained to handle Linux).

Once Linux becomes as popular as Windows (if that ever happens), we'll see: even lower pricing from Microsoft (possibly even free, bundled with more tryware for Office, etc), tryware actually designed to run on Linux (binary only, most likely), equivalent sales teams, and quite possibly for the average consumer an even larger support department, given Linux's propensity to be friendlier to geeks than other people.

And even if "Linux machines" always cost more, Linux users will be better off because more hardware manufacturers will have to make sure their stuff actually works on the Linux kernel, etc. Then I won't have to deal with machines like the HP DC7700 which couldn't boot the Fedora, Slackware, or Ubuntu install disks without disabling ACPI which caused the sound card and on-board ethernet to not be found.

And of course, with fewer Windows users online, there will be fewer spam zombies ... at least for a while.

FC works

[mdsolar]

One of the systems sounds close to mine. FC works on this with just a few issues with the video driver (answered here on slashdot). This sounds like a smart move.
--
Rent residential solar power: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

Re:FC works

[mdsolar]

No wifi in the system. Can't get lightscribe to work with anything. Might have the wrong disks though.

2008 year of Linux desktop after all ...?

[suv4x4]

I used to laugh at people who kept saying Linux for desktop is coming, and I'm not that big of a fan of the Linux desktop as well (I'm a fan of the Linux servers).

But what I kept saying is they need vendor support. No support, no lunch.

Now HP and Dell, the hardware vendors, offer desktop support. Those are big players, we know the smaller players will follow though quickly.

Something's definitely going on, I remember the same excitement as Firefox was making its first steps eating at IE's market share.

Re:2008 year of Linux desktop after all ...?

[enrevanche]

I think that this is allowing PC manufacturers to learn how to support Linux on the desktop.

With windows, manufacturers really can't distinguish themselves that much. With Linux, in the long run, this will allow them to become more like Apple, allowing them to provide a product that they have more control of. Microsoft requires that most of the branding of the PC be MS branding. Linux will allow a PC manufacturer to make this branding more their own.

They've been under the Microsoft whip for a long time now. They've helped stop a large a part of the server market from going to Microsoft. The next step will be to take control over the desktop. Even if they will eventually just use Red Hat or Ubuntu, they will be able allowed customize them substantially more than with windows.

Also, this will allow them to negotiate better with MS.

Re:2008 year of Linux desktop after all ...?

[myrdos2]

Yeah, but I remember this excitement last year... and the year before that. In the last few years, I've seen tremendous improvements in the ease-of-use of Linux, and yet there has been no corresponding increase in the number of users:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

The number of Linux users has been roughly flat for the last three years. To me, Linux is ready for the desktop, and has been for quite some time. However, the simple truth is that most people buy a computer to run software, the vast majority of which is for Windows. Sure, Linux comes with a TON of its own stuff, which makes it useful to many, many people.

But even more people want to run commercial software that is Windows-only. Like games. Or business apps. Or the CD that came with their camera. Face it; if Wine worked with 100% reliability, Windows would be dead.

You can rant and rave about improvements in reliability, security, efficiency, GUI elements, and so forth, but at the end of the day what people care most about is: "Will it run my software?".

So sometime this week...

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

Steve Ballmer will line up the Windows Vista development team and break chairs over their heads... While I love reading stories like this, and no doubt it is partially due to the massive improvements in desktop Linux over the last couple years, a great deal of the inertia behind this is likely PC makers frustrated with Vista and consumer indifference. Dell showed just enough success with Ubuntu on consumer machines that now all the larger PC makers have to dip their toes in the pool.

In theory we should now started seeing more and better drivers and more Linux versions of popular applications. If the right approach is taken I think some companies will provide code/docs/etc.. Any way you slice it, it's good news.

Re:So sometime this week...

[Nossie]

I actually agree... to the extent that I think if anything Vista has helped linux gain marketshare. I upgraded to Vista beta and expected/hoped the OS to mature into retail... when it did not mature and I was so frustrated with the crapware and DRM Microsoft provided I didn't want to go back to XP, Aero is damn fine looking WHEN it works

So I stopped dabbling in linux like I have done for the last 10 years and now use Linux-Compiz / OSX entirely ...

The only thing that would have stopped me really is Games, but I cant say I've seen any games recently that I desperately feel I should have kept windows for.

Really though, I couldn't give a fvck what OS you used, just as long as there is competition so everyone gets a choice.

Linux on all models

[nukem996]

What Dell and HP really need to do is install Linux on all, or at least most models of their computers. They currently only install Linux on a cheaper model that many power users(which is the majority of the Linux user base right now) don't want. We want the high end stuff. As long as the system has drivers for everything(free as in freedom or free as in beer), and most systems do, you should be able to select Linux just like you can select what ever version of Windows you want.

Re:Linux on all models

[kabz]

Respectfully, I disagree. If Linux depends on customers (the power-users) who already know about Linux, then no progress will be made beyond where we are now.

HP is putting Linux on lower-end machines selling to people who probably don't really care about Windows, **providing** that all their documents still open and their music plays.

If this comes off, and they sell enough machines, then maybe we'll see them roll it out across some other countries.

Re:Linux on all models

[Kjella]

Don't worry, it's coming. What will happen now is a classic case of "bulletpointytis", in which any hardware producer looking to become a supplier to Dell and HP will have "Linux compatibility" as one criterium. It might not be very important, but supporting Linux isn't really that hard. Those are typically the kind of features you implement so you have an impressive list of features when it comes down to crunch time. "Well, it doesn't do that but look at everything else it does" or "Well, it's not cheapest but look at all the features you get". I think that effect is actually more important than what the sales figures are, as long as it's not phased out again.

Re:Linux on all models

[Skapare]

If you want high-end power machines that run Linux, build them yourself or go buy them pre-configured here or here. In the mean time, the more non-geeks we can get to be using Linux, the more hardware manufacturers and applications developers will have to consider Linux compatibility. Once we get to the point where all hardware works in Linux (either because they make it use an existing interface, or fully and openly document the new one they design, or provide kernel license compatible open source drivers) and all useful applications have native Linux versions, then I really don't care how many people use Windows. But until then, I see expanding the Linux user base as a means to the desired ends.

Australia is a shrewd choice

[dwalsh]

Everything works backwards down there - Summer is in December, colder in the South, water spirals down the drain in the opposite direction ... and Linux on the desktop.

Red Hat charges for Linux, $80 to $339

[AHumbleOpinion]

What is the cost of this computer with XP/Vista in comparison. We have seen this happen before where Dell shipped FreeDOS systems that actually cost more than with Windows (which means there is definitely malarky going on there).

No malarky, Red Hat charges for RHEL. Prices range from $80 to $339 depending on whether or not you want support for 2 CPU sockets, more than 4 GB RAM, virtualization, server applications (apache, samba, nfs). Keep in mind that Red Hat is offering support.

https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/

Technical support expenses

[tepples]

Why not an empty hard disk and an installation DVD to reinstall? Expecting the end user to install the operating system would create more technical support expenses than installing the operating system prior to shipping the computer.

Re:Technical support expenses

[cp.tar]

I.e. the same reason Windows comes pre-installed as well.

Smaller companies have been doing this for a while

[Skapare]

Smaller companies have been doing this for a while. Why do we need to go to big companies like HP when we can get computers from places like Los Alamos Computers and Penguin Computing? Oh wait, geeks now want dirt cheap computers instead of top of the line machines?

In Latin America...

[Stormwatch]

This isn't really new: HP sells PCs with Mandriva across Latin America.

People like their OS preinstalled.

[symbolset]

That way they don't have the chicken/egg problem of how to download and burn the installation disc.

HP is very GNU/Linux savvy. They have a Linux landing page. They certify six different distributions. Their Insight Diagnostics are actually a custom Linux distro for performing system diagnostics and repair on their systems. HP supports open source software, and has for a long time. They support organizations such as the Free Software Foundation, Open Source Software Institute, and the Linux Foundation. The home of the Linux kernel, kernel.org runs on donated HP servers.

They often sponsor community events like the Linux Kernel Developer Summit, the Debian Conference, the International Free Software Forum, GNOME User and Developer European Conference, the Desktop Linux Summit, the Libre Graphics Meeting, and LinuxWorld. HP has not only supported Open Source projects, they have over 100 of their own. They have over 1,000 open source printer drivers. It's nice knowing you can plug in the HP printer and it will just go. Once upon a time printer drivers in Linux were a severe pain point.

So if you're considering buying a PC with Linux on it, apparently you could do worse than go with the HP one. (Full disclosure - I don't work for HP and I don't sell their stuff, but I do work in the business so of course I deal with their stuff somewhat. My opinions are my own, YMMV, yadda yadda.)

Now that Microsoft has decided to sell PCs it's natural for other PC sellers to consider their options. Every Windows + Office sale is a profit center Microsoft can use to subsidize their attack on the PC market much like they're funding their attack on the game console market. If you're a company that is already in the business of selling PCs, subsidizing your competitor is a very bad idea -- especially if the competitor can offer themselves considerable discounts on software.

Re:People like their OS preinstalled.

[datapharmer]

I am really surprised by this - thanks for the info. I had been kind of against buying HP products since i've been screwed by several of there scanners not being supported very long under windows and never supported under linux or mac. I sure wish they would open source the code to those!

Re:People like their OS preinstalled.

[God of Lemmings]

And despite all of that certification, they still ship their laptops with microsoft compiled DSDT tables that don't meet the ACPI spec.

Re:People like their OS preinstalled.

[ozmanjusri]

I have a HP NC6400 laptop which came with SLED 10 pre-installed, and it's a great little machine. Much better than buying a Windows laptop, then wiping it - even has a little green "Designed for SuSe Linux" sticker where those Windows ones normally go.

MS volume licenses

[mistahkurtz]

Previously, HP had offered this desktop computer with a choice of Vista Business, XP, and FreeDOS. In the latter case, this was almost always replaced by users with a Linux distribution. not completely true. most (if not 100%) of the machines that come with FreeDOS are build-to-order configs. ie, for a rollout for a specific customer. FreeDOS costs a few bucks, and saves the company from having to buy OEM XPP or Vista or whatever if they already own the licenses thru a license agreement of some sort. The machines are generally imaged for the customer with their own licensing and whatever software/settings they need. this can save $5000-$10000 or more on a decent-sized rollout or refresh.

the same could be true of linux distros (though it happens much less often), but the point is FreeDOS is intended to save the company from having to buy an OS when they already have one.

Re:MS volume licenses

[GPL Apostate]

For QA purposes, that would be a machine on which an OS had been installed for testing, and then wiped.

Re:FreeDOS

[Hucko]

Xstrata (nee Mount Isa Mines) for hooking up to the various PLC devices around their mines (as of +2 years ago). I'm sure other mining/industrial companies are in the same position. Their favourite PLC device suppliers were still delivering the PLC programming software on (MS) DOS in 2005. I think some of the more progressive companies were moving to Windows 3.11.