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Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
NMerriam writes "Michael Righi was arrested in Ohio over the weekend after refusing to show his receipt when leaving Circuit City. When the manger and 'loss prevention' employee physically prevented the vehicle he was a passenger in from leaving the parking lot, he called the police, who arrived, searched his bag and found he hadn't stolen anything. The officer then asked for Michael's driver's license, which he declined to provide since he wasn't operating a motor vehicle. The officer then arrested him, and upon finding out Michael was legally right about not having to provide a license, went ahead and charged him with 'obstructing official business' anyways."
Well, the story is a bit disturbing, but what I found really disturbing as I was reading the comments people left on this guy's blog. Most of them called him an idiot, and said you should always comply when someone asks to see your search your property as you're leaving their store - and even worse, that if a police officer asks for your license, you should always provide it, even if you're just walking down the sidewalk doing nothing illegal. This is why I'm thankful we have the ACLU. Even if they're sometimes over-the-top, it's threads like these that make it evident the average US citizen is not aware of, or at least is not willing to stand up for, their rights.
God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?
I was a passenger in a car that got rear ended. When the cops showed up, the first one took my drivers license. A minute later another cop walked up and demanded I give him my license. I told him I had already given it to the first officer and I got the "if you dont give me your license right now you are going to jail" routine. I pretty much laughed in his face which pissed him off to no end.
In the end they took my friend to the hospital and towed his car away even though I was fine and able to drive it away and he told them that I would drive it. I was left in a town that is so small there was no such thing as taxi cabs, 60 miles from home and stranded.
As much as i wish the justice system would work in cases like these, it doesnt. Your only hope is to find that cop on a dark road one night and beat the shit out of him. I've heard a baseball bat works great in suprise situations.
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
Devils Advocate: A receipt check is a request for cooperation in helping deter crime. By creating an environment where customers voluntarily submit to a receipt check, you make it that much more difficult for a shoplifter to blend in as it's another activity they will have to engage in to appear normal and increases their risk of being caught. We have a civic duty to engage in active policing and activities to prevent crime in our comunities.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Generally if someone wants to peek in the bag I'm carrying my purchased item in and show them my receipt, I don't have a problem with this. I'm willing to give them that amount of leeway. But I draw the line at them searching anything else I carry or my person. If they want to do that, let them make a charge of shoplifting against me, call the police, and let them search me.
Karma: Frotzed (mostly due to the Frobozz Magic Karma Company)
70 years ago or so shoplifting was considered a crime and something no respectable citizen would do. To shoplift would result in arrest, detention, possible loss of a job and a great amount of embarrassment. Nobody in their right mind did it. This of course led to the psycological assessment of "kleptomania" which is a translation of "shoplifting regardless of the consequences".
Today, there is no such loss of respect. People shoplift all the time. Celebreties. Soccer moms. Republicans. Democrats. Pretty much everybody. As much as 25% of a store's operating expenses are tied up in loss prevention and covering "shrinkage". Therefore, stores in general - all stores - are extremely sensitive to this and take lots of steps to ensure loss doesn't occur or occurs at a much lower rate than it would otherwise.
So in steps Michael whatever. He is offended at having his package examined. He better never set foot in a Sam's Club where they check every shopping cart leaving the store against the receipt. He fails to understand that the chances of one of the next 10 people leaving the store is a thief is about 100%. He considers that he is being treated as a criminal, when in fact shoplifting is far, far too prevalent to be considered as anything more than a ticketable offence in most jurisdictions. Stores in general don't really call the police - they just prevent the loss and tell you not to come back. It isn't worth their time.
But Michael the privacy advocate has to play the driver's license game as well. Of course, this gets in the way of the policeman doing his job - or at least how he views his job. This guy is going to have some big legal bills and never serve a day in jail. He will feel pretty stupid at the end of this adventure and isn't going to come away with anything except a feeling that things didn't go quite right. No, I don't see how he can "win" in any sense of the word.
In short, blow of the store security people (I do it all the time), but don't blow off the real police.
Officer Arroyo: "Give me your driver's license or I will place you under arrest."
...
Me: "My name is Michael Righi. I am not willing to provide you with my driver's license."
My three siblings sat in the back of the Buick crying their eyes out, which is the only part of today that I regret.
You don't see any way you could have prevented that, do you? Something I consider important when standing up for our liberties is knowing when and where to pick our battles. I'm not sure a family outing such as you described is one such moment. Of course you were absolutely in your rights for not showing your receipt, and the person was silly to demand it, but seriously what did you hope to achieve by refusing but to antagonise?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I just think it's a stupid thing to take a stand on. Being required to show a receipt after making a purchase (or being required to show a license when the police arrive and you're about to leave in your car) is not the sort of thing that is going to lead to a significant loss of civil liberties. And, as you said, a requirement to show basic competence before operating a motor vehicle is quite reasonable considering the potential damage that can be done, at least IMO. Finally, it is possible to both protest and obey principles when the situation requires in any case.
There are a lot of other things that effort would be better spent on taking stands against. Maybe the police were out of line, but I would argue that the customer was being unreasonable as well.
I suppose it might be fun to stand defiant against the authorities, knowing full well you are legally in the clear by doing so, and although you might get arrested, you'll gladly get dragged down to the police station, get fingerprinted, locked in a cell for several hours until someone can come bail you out. And then you'll get to defend the charge in court, and it will probably cost a couple thousand dollars, but THAT'S OK.. It's WORTH it to be defiant. It's worth it to deny the police officer knowledge of your identity. Because in spite of being arrested, etc, you've managed to keep that bit of useless information from them. YOU HAVE WON!!!! .... oh wait...
This guy screwed up. HE called the police. He was being physically detained without his consent by people who didn't have the authority to do so. The police were on his side. They likely already knew who he was if it was his name on the cellphone he called the police from. So... why not show the friendly police officer his ID? Who cares if he "legally doesn't have to"... the police officer is on his side here. He's managed to lay a nice foundation for a lawsuit against Circuit City, and has a friendly police officer as a witness to the event, and he's going to screw that all up by acting defiant where it's not necessary.
If they called the police on him, he might have a better leg to stand on, but as it stands, he probably cost himself any chance of a lawsuit as well as racking up a few thousand $$$ in legal fees to defend himself.
Way to go dude!
In response to a few things he mentioned, the officer does not have to read you your miranda rights, despite what you might see on TV. They only need to do that if they're planning to ask you questions that might lead you to incriminate yourself. Since handing over his license or not handing over his license has nothing to do with what he might say in the process, there's no reason to read him his rights.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Try and detain me. Go ahead.
It's a very valid statement.
Who are you to think you have some right to detain me if I have done nothing wrong and merely don't feel like playing your big brother head games? I'd be willing to take the chance that I can take you and if you or your employees tried to stop me when I had done nothing wrong, deal with the ramifications of defending myself from your attack. In my opinion, your very attempt to detain me is assault and therefore, I am entitled to defend myself.
Unless of course, you live in one of those fascist anti-freedom places on one of the coasts. Then you all have already given up your freedoms and privacies and should just let them chip you.
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In New York if I remember correctly, [at least in the county I was a store manager in (not a Circuit City)], we can detain you, and even request to see your receipts or request you let us inspect your bag(s), but cannot forcibly do so... if you refuse, which is your right, then we can detain you until the police arrive who then can search your bag if we sufficiently prove to them/convince them a crime (shoplifting) has occurred.
Democrats and Republicans are like AIDS and Cancer, I want neither!