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Canadian Bureaucrats Don't "Think Different"

owlgorithm writes "Apple's new store in Montreal has three parking meters on the street in front of it. The city is in the middle of a campaign to reduce downtown parking. In Apple's ever-conscientious attempt to improve design, they offered to reimburse the city for the parking meters and their revenue if the city would remove them. Answer: Non — because 'We've never done it before, so we can't.'"

17 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. I don't quite get it.. by QMalcolm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The meters are there to reduce the number of parked cars, not for revenue. Apple is offering money, not a solution to overcrowded streets.

    1. Re:I don't quite get it.. by Jthon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually from the article it sounds like Apple would be fine with the removal of the meters and making the spaces a no parking zone. In this case the city would receive both the revenue from the meters AND a reduction in downtown parking.

      It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

    2. Re:I don't quite get it.. by Phisbut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It seems someone at the city has missed a way to make a buck, and fix their traffic problem.

      The city didn't miss an opportunity to make money. Apple wanted to pay the equivalent of the parking fares for the next 5 years. However, the city makes way more money from parking tickets than from parking meters.

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      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    3. Re:I don't quite get it.. by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And such a heavy-handed measure would cause more problems than it would solve. It would needlessly cause greater aggravation for drivers looking for someplace to park, and no-parking zones don't enforce themselves.

      I would rather see a government avoid using brute force measures where gentle persuasion would suffice. Especially when the latter earns money rather than spends it on more traffic cops.

      Besides, if it were primarily about the income, the city government would have jumped at the cash offer.

    4. Re:I don't quite get it.. by mooingyak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      no-parking zones don't enforce themselves. ...unlike parking meters?

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
  2. kdawson spam by Traxxas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this is a story how? Why should a city remove meters because the business is Apple. If Apple doesn't want to deal with the meters they shouldn't have put the store there.

  3. Bad quote... by WiglyWorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The quote "We've never done it before, so we can't." isn't attributed to anyone in the article, I highly doubt it was ever said. Sounds to me like the writer injecting some op-ed in to this supposed news piece. Should it really be cited on /.'s front page in a way that makes it sound like that was an actual reason given?

  4. Retarded Story by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That "news" story isn't quoting Montreal bureaucrats. It's putting words in their mouths to make a (stupid) point. All the writer knows is that the city refused - they don't actually know why, and there's no sign they actually asked anyone.

    Parking meters, as the writer did note, are designed not to collect a little revenue, but to keep parking turning over quickly so more people can share fewer parking spots. "No Parking" signs don't replace them where they're needed (like in front of stores like Apple's) because parking is appropriate there, just not unlimited.

    This is a stupid story by a stupid writer. Published by a stupid Slashdot editor.

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    make install -not war

  5. No Parking And "Smart Growth" are Flawed Concepts by CodeBuster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is ironic that they very objectives that municipalities set for programs of Smart Growth very often result in precisely the opposite effects, increasing or exacerbating the undesirable elements that they seek to control. For example, in Portland Oregon they have filled in left turn pockets with planter boxes, installed "speed tables" and other "traffic calming" obstacle courses (if you were in a hurry would you be happy about having to slow down to navigate an obstacle course in your vehicle? Would that make you calmer once you exited the course or would you romp on the gas in anger and frustration to make up for lost time as you entered the freeway or the main traffic corridor?), removed parking spaces, provided too few parking spaces, and done many other misguided things in pursuit of the goal of "getting people out of their cars". After 15+ years what has been the result of these policies? Snarled traffic, increased traffic, traffic idling in slow speed stop and go driving, increased smog from more vehicles operating in the most inefficient speed and rpm range for the internal combustion engine. Basically every problem that they hopped to solve with their "Smart Growth" has in fact been made worse or even created new problems (i.e. dramatically increased smog) on top of the old ones. Portland is *worse* off because of Smart Growth and it would have been better off if they simply done nothing or at least abstained from some of the more no sense recommendations of the "Smart Growth" activists and consultants.

    It all boils down to basic economics. People will do what they want and live how they want and you cannot tell them, "The elite smart growth planners are going to tell you what it is that you *really* want (i.e. less parking) and then enforce it upon you against your will." That type of centrally planned, command and control economic or social policy has not worked and will never work. It is the height of hubris and arrogance to presume that you can change other people's lives and preferences through mandates, laws, and enforcement actions. If people cannot work within the system then they find ways around it and the economic results of the workarounds are often *highly* suboptimal resulting in a Dead Weight Loss to the economy.

  6. Re:Not really a quote by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Besides, and I am not exaggerating, the $35,000 Apple is promising probably wouldn't even cover the cost of tasking a union city crew to remove the meters, rebuild the sidewalk and put the meters someplace else.

    There's the matter of cars taking up the spots all day, unless it's posted Car Park limit 1 Hour, also having a parking warden come along and chalk tyres and monitor vehicles where the old meter was simply expired or not. (Though were I live they keep a limit of two hours on a vehicle in the same spot, meter paid up or no.)

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    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  7. I call bullshit. by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "We've never done it before, so we can't."

    There is no source for the quote in TFA, and TFA is the only article I can find on the subject with the quote. I believe this is what we call "hyperbole."

    Now why wouldn't the city want to play ball? As TFA and the summary say, the entire point of the parking meters is to reduce downtown parking to begin with; it's not about the revenue, it's about the traffic (always a problem in major metropolitan centers built well before the invention of the automobile). If anything, we should be applauding the local government here for not taking the money and instead sticking by their original intent. All too many such governments would have taken the money and turned the other way.

    If anybody is failing to "think different," it's Apple themselves, who are trying to take the tried-and-true easy way out of essentially bribing a government to get their way. Something different would be to find a way to encourage all those hipster Apple fans to come to their store by, say, public transportation (save gas, ease traffic congestion, etc.).

    Would the story have the same "Boo government, yay capitalists!" slant if we were talking about a Sony store?

  8. Re:Cue the anti government rants! by CodeBuster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think of these things any time a libertarian says, "Business can do things more efficiently!"

    In defense of libertarians: the nice thing about business is that they go out of business (i.e. bankruptcy) whereas governments are much harder to get rid off once they are entrenched into an inefficient position (i.e. governments cannot go bankrupt, at lest not in the traditional sense that the entity is dissolved). Businesses come and go and that is fine as the market weeds out the less efficient players, but governments are always there and can be very difficult to remove or replace once they get into a spending program funded by taxes and backed up by police power to collect.

  9. It's Apple, so it must be okay then? by semiotec · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the city officials allow Apple to do this, then they must allow other companies to do this as well. So, imagine if a significant number of companies pay for this "privilege", and the number of street-parking slots is reduced by 50% (or whatever fraction you deem to be significant), can you see the problem this would cause?

    Stupid article and stupid writer.

  10. Gotta love those English speaking Canadians. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It would be nice if they could demonstrate that other cities have accepted such an offer - keep in mind that the Gazette is Montréal's leading English language, right-leaning paper. The sense that they are also delivering a slight poke to the French spoken city officials is unmistakable.

  11. Re:You know it's a Slow newsday when ... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they're suggesting they've never accepted money to change the way something is done or not done?
    No. As I Canadian citizen, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the only thing that's ever done in Canadian politics to change things, is to figure out a new way to tax something.
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    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  12. Re:Cue the anti government rants! by ardent99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My sense is just the opposite: that the biggest and longest lived companies waste the most, not the least (AT&T, IBM, Raytheon, etc). Less efficient businesses do not go out of business, rather, entrenched businesses have the luxury of being less efficient. Bigger (usually as a result of having succeeded over a longer period of time), longer-lived companies usually have lower profit margins than smaller ones, and make it up in volume. Their momentum (experience, contracts, brand name, lobbying efforts, diversification) is what keeps them going, not their efficiency.

  13. Re:Not really a quote by macshit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People need to park in order to buy.

    No they don't. In real cities, people don't need cars at all (I don't know for sure whether Montreal is a real city, but from what I hear, it's not too bad).

    Apple is clearly a bit confused by this concept (being headquartered in Cupertino, I suppose it's understandable).

    Sorry folks but the answer is building green cars not in banning parking spaces.

    No. The fundamental problem with cars is that they suck up space, and "green cars" do absolutely nothing to address that.

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