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Bully vs. Harry Potter

Posted by Zonk on from the you-don't-have-to-like-me dept.

Via the ever-enjoyable GameSetWatch, a post on a blog for the development house Surreal Game Design. Surreal is a Midway division, and it's interesting to see a company blog actually ponying up opinions on the work of other designers as they do in this discussion of the unlikeability of Bully's setting. They discuss the problems with setting the game in a boarding school, the protagonist's sniveling classmates, and the unfavorable comparisons between Bullworth Academy and the halls of Sunnydale High or Hogwarts. From the post: "A while ago I was talking to Director of Design Richard Rouse along with some of the other Midway studio creative directors about our experiences with Bully. In both our cases, we really, really wanted to like it, but only played a few hours before giving up. Since it was blessed with many high reviews, we were left wondering 'What were we missing?' ... Harvey Smith of Midway Austin (and Creative Director of Area 51: Blacksite) rightfully pointed out that high school has been a successful setting of great things like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the Ultimate Spiderman comics. Richard noted that the high school of Buffy was populated by attractive, always-witty teenagers that killed freakin' vampires. Those California high schools you see in TV and movies are probably some of the most idealized environments you'll ever see."

34 comments

  1. Nice title by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bully vs. Harry Potter

    Now that is a game I'd buy!

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    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    1. Re:Nice title by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Too bad the article was about the Bully video game, and not Bully, the movie, directed by Larry Clark.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:Nice title by jfinke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Isn't that pretty much what the books are about?

    3. Re:Nice title by athdemo · · Score: 2, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, Harry Potter bullies you!

  2. I like harry potter by unity100 · · Score: 1

    its relaxing

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  3. O WAU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some developer no one's heard of going on about a game nobody bought. Stirring material. What's a "high review" anyway? Does that mean the critic roasted a j-bone before playing the game? That would explain one or two or possibly three things. Notice the Spider-Man reference: are you aware that there exists a comic series called "Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane" (italics mine, for, you know, emphasis)?!?!?! Coincidence? I think not!1 Oooo-WEEEE-OOOOO

  4. Freaky by Asmor · · Score: 1, Informative

    I read the title as "Buffy vs. Harry Potter" on the /. main page, and then it turns out Buffy does indeed feature prominently in the summary.

  5. It's pretty obvious... by AgentOJ · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's pretty obvious from the article that the author spent no more than an hour playing the game. He complains about the game component of going to class, saying that it doesn't tie into the game at all (not true, if you go to class you unlock "upgrades" for your weapons, transportation, etc). Once you've passed a class, you have a free period in which to "explore the world." I played the game, and enjoyed it, but all of the arguments the author puts forth crumble if you take into account that the ramp-up portion of the game takes about an hour of play before things get going. I've had my fair share of games that were so horrible that I just had to stop playing them, but I think he didn't give it enough of a chance. Also, what's up with the year delay on this article? Bully isn't new.

    1. Re:It's pretty obvious... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hear the same thing about Zelda: Twilight Princess. People spend half an hour, don't make it out of the village, and complain that you have to fish to much, conclude that the game sucks, and don't play any further. This isn't Ducktales. You aren't going to beat it in 3 hours from the first time you pick up the controller. I've played over 40 hours already, and I'm not done. And I haven't even really focussed on getting all the sidequests done. That's just time spent trying to go through the game. Spending an hour to get out of the village at the start seems like nothing when you spend a couple hours running around the temple in the sky.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:It's pretty obvious... by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hear the same thing about Zelda: Twilight Princess. People spend half an hour, don't make it out of the village, and complain that you have to fish to much, conclude that the game sucks, and don't play any further. Any game that requires you to spend time in a boring, monotonous activity in order to earn things (experience/points/items/coins/gold/etc) or unlock things (weapons/keys/flutes/goblets/etc) is a boring game.

      If I wanted to have to suffer through somethig boring just to finally get something good, I'd shut down my console and go live real life.
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      Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
    3. Re:It's pretty obvious... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, the fishing isn't boring, and only took me about 5 minutes to complete. However, I enjoyed it, so I kept on fishing for a little while afterwards. The people who are complaining about having to fish for half an hour must have done something wrong. I"ve found most of the stuff in Zelda to be quite interesting, and find the only complaints about it are from people who assume if they aren't killing something, then it's boring.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:It's pretty obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear the same thing about Zelda: Twilight Princess. People spend half an hour, don't make it out of the village, and complain that you have to fish to much, conclude that the game sucks, and don't play any further. Any game that requires you to spend time in a boring, monotonous activity in order to earn things (experience/points/items/coins/gold/etc) or unlock things (weapons/keys/flutes/goblets/etc) is a boring game.

      If I wanted to have to suffer through somethig boring just to finally get something good, I'd shut down my console and go live real life. Hear Hear! And the rest of us can accomplish the same thing by reading your posts on slashdot.
    5. Re:It's pretty obvious... by Floritard · · Score: 1

      Not true. I played Twilight Princess for about 5 hours before finally realizing I just plain hated the game. I think a lot of that was the trauma I experienced in that first village though. Everywhere I went the tedium of my actions just kept reminding me of how pointless and insulting my activities were in that first village.

      "You mean you won't open your fucking store because your pussy is aloof? Fuck you lady I'm trying to go on a quest here!" Then you had to appease the cat too! And he was finicky!! Where's the grab-cat-by-tail-and-move-on button? Or the murder-diptshit-storekeeper button?!

      I liked the fishing actually. I wish the game was just fishing with Zelda characters, I would have kept playing. I never felt bored playing Bully.

    6. Re:It's pretty obvious... by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      Eh, the fishing was the only part of that game i didn't like, it wasn't because i wasn't killing stuff (i really enjoy puzzle games etc) it was because it was just plain pointless.... cast jiggle repeat till some random fish jumped on my lure. All i could do was just keep looking at the clock, disbelieving the amount of time they expected me to keep trying to catch a freaking fish (i think i finished it in about 15 min).

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    7. Re:It's pretty obvious... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, before you leave the village, you aren't even going on a quest. You're just some kid, hanging around in his small village. If you actually look at it from the character's (Link) point of view, then you'll see that what you're doing is just what any other person in that village would probably be doing. Helping the neighbour find the cat, rounding up some goats, sitting by the pond and fishing. The character doesn't know that he's going to go venturing into the forest and get attacked by creatures from some other dimension. The reason that Zelda doesn't interest you, is because you're not interested in that kind of game. That is, the kind of game that has a real story, and requires things that aren't just grabbing cats by the tail, or killing everything that moves. In the real world,, you can't just act like an idiot and bash down doors to get what you want, you have to help others, so that they will want to help you.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    8. Re:It's pretty obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I spent hours trying to catch that first fish! I had to look up an online guide in the end...

    9. Re:It's pretty obvious... by brkello · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why you have to be derogatory to the guy. He doesn't like Zelda: TP. You love it. No need to take it down to a personal level. He is stating his opinion...no matter what you say you can't invalidate his opinion by telling him how he just doesn't get it. I am sure the guy can enjoy games with "real" story...whatever that means. You are playing a video game you know...it isn't really very real.

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    10. Re:It's pretty obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear the same thing about Zelda: Twilight Princess. People spend half an hour, don't make it out of the village, and complain that you have to fish to much, conclude that the game sucks, and don't play any further.

      Any game that requires you to spend time in a boring, monotonous activity in order to earn things (experience/points/items/coins/gold/etc) or unlock things (weapons/keys/flutes/goblets/etc) is a boring game.

      If I wanted to have to suffer through something boring just to finally get something good, I'd shut down my console and go live real life.

      Agreed. If any required activity is not fun, the game ceases to be fun when you run into that activity. It is especially bad when the activity has no relation to the standard gameplay. When this activity is at the beginning of the game, people come away with a bad initial impression of the game. Any form of entertainment is supposed to catch your attention quickly and entertain you. Compare "you must play the fishing minigame for 5-30 minutes" (going by other people's comments since I've never played Z:TP) to the original Zelda where you started by spending thirty seconds stumbling into the first cave you saw, getting your first sword from the first NPC you meet, and walking off the initial screen to start the combat/adventure portion.

      The same is true for any action game that gives you a nearly unsolveable puzzle (especially if it does not reset when you leave the area and come back so you can end up in a situation where you can not win the game), or Wolf3d where you had to hump all the look-alike walls to find the secret passage with the key you needed to beat the level.

      Someone else mentioned other games which are popular despite being based on monotonous activities. That is because those games are based on that activity and a large number of people find the activity fun. I don't want my shoot-em-up to turn into Klotski even if I might enjoy a Klotski game from time to time.

      - Perpetual Newbie (never made an account)

    11. Re:It's pretty obvious... by demi · · Score: 1

      Zelda/Nintendo people, Apple fanboys, Pythonistas and Emacsers are all like that. If you don't like it, there's something wrong with you.

      --
      demi
    12. Re:It's pretty obvious... by Floritard · · Score: 1

      It really is an insipid game though. Like I said, I played it for 5 hours before finally just saying fuck this. I was really trying to like it. Conversely (and at the risk of actually tying this back into the OT:), I didn't find the first hour of Bully to be boring at all, and it just kept getting better and better. I was actually surprised you get to go out into the town at one point, thinking you'd be confined to the school the whole time. There is plenty of helping characters in that game too, but the game never makes you feel like an asshole for doing so. Maybe because I'd rather help a few hapless nerds get one over on some bullies (or do some bullying myself) than be an errand boy for a few bumpkins (fantasy rednecks are still just rednecks) in a lifeless village. OTOH, Bully's setting feels way more lively, with all kinds of stuff going on around you, plenty of story and interaction. But hey that's just my opinion, here's hoping the next Zelda is more interesting.

    13. Re:It's pretty obvious... by mink · · Score: 1

      "I liked the fishing actually. I wish the game was just fishing with Zelda characters, I would have kept playing."

      You should have kept playing (or read the manual) later in the game there is a more advanced angling sim (nunchuck for reeling and better control IMO).

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  6. Ah, for the good old Daze by mccalli · · Score: 4, Informative

    Skool Daze, that is. Kids today with their new-fangled Bully thinking it's something new...pah!

    Cheers,
    Ian

  7. I'm only part way through the article, but... by PopeGumby · · Score: 1

    I never met any cool people, and even attractive women weren't anywhere to be seen Yeah, because my days at high school were filled with really cool people and lovely ladies. This seems like just another a disgruntled blogger...why do I care that he didnt like the game? I havent even played the game - but I'm eagerly awaiting the 360 Scholarship Edition, and will be preordering and picking up first day...

  8. It's easy by Higaran · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Those guy's are obviously geeks, and the couldn't handle putting thier minds back in that kind of settings. Once they saw what the nerds in the game, they started to have flash backs, went into panic attacks and couldn't play anymore. Hey it brought back some similar memories for me, but when I hit the first jock with the sling shot it all went away because I finally felt redemtion, I'm jokeing of course. Or am I, to tell the truth it isn't much of a stretch, I can remember someone in my life that was similar to each caracter in the game.

  9. Animal Crossing? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Any game that requires you to spend time in a boring, monotonous activity in order to earn things (experience/points/items/coins/gold/etc) or unlock things (weapons/keys/flutes/goblets/etc) is a boring game. Then why did Animal Crossing sell so many copies on both the GameCube and the DS? Perhaps players like boring games, no?

    If I wanted to have to suffer through somethig boring just to finally get something good, I'd shut down my console and go live real life. And spend time in a boring, monotonous job in order to earn money or keep the door to your apartment unlocked.
    1. Re:Animal Crossing? by Floritard · · Score: 1

      Animal Crossing doesn't have a picture of a Warrior and a Wolf on the box art, implying it's some sort of adventure game. It's very cute and very easy to leave on the store shelf and avoid. Twilight Princess lied to me. Actually, they should have just made Animal Crossing: Twilight Princess. Then everyone would have been blown away by how badass a social simulator could be:)

  10. Depends on whom you get to play. by Animats · · Score: 1

    "Bully" is like playing a Harry Potter game as Neville Longbottom. With that as the only option.

    1. Re:Depends on whom you get to play. by absoluteflatness · · Score: 1

      Also, the game is somewhat non-terrible, unlike the Harry Potter games. Hopefully, they'll get all their games tied to the specific books/movies out of the way and make something a little more open-ended and enjoyable.

  11. Bully would make for the perfect Harry Potter game by hansamurai · · Score: 1

    In my final comments in my review of Bully's first hour I note that this is what the Harry Potter games should be like. I actually played through all of Bully and thoroughly enjoyed it, only imagining it being better if I was some random kid at Hogwarts learning magic and throwing Weasley invented stuff at first years.

    --
    Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
  12. Bully v Harry Potter by deniable · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Order of the Phoenix game is often compared to Bully, as in "It's like Bully, but at Hogwarts." In other words, a big sanbox with some quests thrown in. This whole 'article' sounds like someone doesn't get it.

  13. Missing the point. by Jartan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think most likely a lot of commenter's didn't read the blog or missed the point. They don't seem to be discussing whether or not the game is good. They seem to be talking about how the setting was bad enough to turn them off. It's worth discussing because the game IS good. If a bad setting can turn off people from a game they normally would like then that's worth noting.

  14. You know.. by rav64 · · Score: 1

    The names associated with this article reads like a virtual B-list of game design.

    It's funny how someone associated with the development of The Suffering (which didn't really hook me past a few hours) couldn't get into Bully (which did hook me for more hours than I'd care to admit). Oh, well..

  15. Harry is DA MAN by gamer303 · · Score: 1

    Harry potter is so frigen awesome. He can make dementors disappear in a sec. God i love him and am training to be able to use all his moves. I bought a wand this weekend.

    1. Re:Harry is DA MAN by Craden · · Score: 1

      Harry potter is a fag. Bully is the way to go.