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802.11n May Never Happen Due to Patent Concerns

afabbro writes "The Register is reporting that the 802.11n standard is imperiled because the Commonwealth Science and Industrial Research Organization has refused to submit a Letter of Assurance, promising not to sue those who implement the standard. '...the realization that CSIRO holds essential patents, and has failed to provide a Letter of Assurance as required by the IEEE, could prevent the standard ever being finalized ... 802.11n promises to deliver a fivefold increase in speed, and double the range of 802.11g. Indeed in many cases it's already delivering something approximating that, as pre-standard kit has been available for almost a year. In May the Wi-Fi Alliance got so bored waiting for the IEEE to complete the standard that they started certifying kit as conforming to the draft, even though the final version isn't expected until 2008."

15 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Lies and more lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait, you mean they've been lying to me all along? So much for patents promoting progress!

  2. Re:Fury...building... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    been governed by the right too long

    As far as the CSIRO is concerned it has never been any different under Labour.

  3. CSIRO Are Not To Blame by EEPROMS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The CSIRO I dare say want to make sure they don't lose the rights to the technology they developed and I dont blame them. Many large companies have already made it clear they will do anything to (even if its illegal) strip the CSIRO of its patent right to technologies that are part of WiFi because they want a "free ride". The real issue here is not the CSIRO but the companies trying to leverage the technology out of their hands. Im not surprised in the least that this loggerhead has been created by the "we dont want to pay for patents even though we force everyone else to do the same" multinationals.

    1. Re:CSIRO Are Not To Blame by mce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Standards are not free-of-charge by definition. A standard is exactly what the word says: a specification that you can choose to adhere to or not. Each international standard body can define its own rules as to what technology an IP limitations they will consider. If you don't want to adhere to a particular standard because there's a patent involved, you simply don't. It's your choice.

      Now, arguably, a proposed standard stands a bigger chance of success if it is not subject to restrictive patents, but that in turn is the choice of the inventors of the technology. If the technology really is of outstanding quality, the developers may want to take that risk. Again, that is their choice, not yours.

    2. Re:CSIRO Are Not To Blame by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      2) the CISRO submitted it's work to an INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS BODY. par of submitting technology to a STANDARDS BODY is the release for ANYONE to duplicate the STANDARD free of charge.

      No that's not even vaguely true.

      CSIRO disclosed the patent to the IEEE in 1997, and IEEE acknowledged that part of the technology used in the new 802.11 standards was covered under CSIRO's patents. The IEEE asked CSIRO, as it does all companies that hold patents on technology used in a standard, if it wanted to license the technology to the industry for free or if it wanted to charge a reasonable fee for the license. CSIRO indicated it wanted to charge a fee for the use of its technology.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  4. Economic loss due to patents. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Time and time again we hear that patents are an economic necessity. People and organizations won't invest in new technologies if they can't exploit them for a profit later on, and all that. But we rarely hear economists and businesspeople talk about the economic loss that patents bring.

    This is just one example. Now the public may very well be deprived of this new technology just because of these patent concerns. So in a very resource-wasteful move, we may very well need to derive another technology that duplicates 802.11n, not for any technical reason, but just to satisfy the legal conditions of a mere document. That's clearly harmful for the economy as a whole. Those resources could have been put towards developing new technologies, rather than reimplementing what already existed.

    1. Re:Economic loss due to patents. by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Insightful
      A patent is not private property. It is a transferable government issued license. Goverments can stop issuing them any time they choose to. AFAICS, historically patents have mostly enriched lawyers and opportunists, not inventors. Looks to me like they distort the marketplace, divert effort and resource into unproductive activity (e.g. lawsuits), and largely fail to generate the benefits they are claimed to engender.

      If you ask me, we can, with a few adjustments, get by just fine without them.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  5. Organisations don't get bored by suv4x4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "In May the Wi-Fi Alliance got so bored waiting for the IEEE to complete the standard"

    I know it's harder to figure out anthromorphism doesn't apply to organisations, since they're made out of people, but can you honestly imagine the following in the documents: "Today we voted to start delivering draft-based wifi kits, because we were bored".

    If you'll look for reasons, look for logistics, money, deadlines and contracts.

  6. Fine by me... by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    .. lets choose a different standard then and let them live in their own island :)

    --
    http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
  7. Total FUD by Xhris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    CSIRO owns patents on pretty much all common wireless technology deployed today. It owns these patents because it developed the technologies. Currently CSIRO is actively trying to get other companies to actually honor its legitimate patents not just for "n" but the existing 802.11x standards as well.

    These are real patents that lay the mathematical/technological foundation for how pretty much all wireless networking works currently. Saying that CSIRO has no right to defend these patents would be like saying CISCO is morally obliged to give away all their routers because we all depend on the internet and we need routers for the internet to work.

    1. Re:Total FUD by Xhris · · Score: 3, Insightful

      CSIRO is required to be partially self funded via external revenue. How is it expected to develop new technologies if it cannot then raise revenue on exciting "stuff" it has developed? Given CSIRO is not in the business of mass production of widgets, selling its IP (ie patents) is really the only approach it has.

    2. Re:Total FUD by deniable · · Score: 5, Insightful

      *Australian taxpayers!*

      The 'public' who want this resource are foreign companies that didn't pay for the research and whose only contribution to Australia is flogging us goods that violate our patents.

      If the CSIRO was acting like a corporation they would have already patent-trolled 802.11 out of existence.

  8. Familiar story by jc42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So is this yet another example of using patents to retard the "progress of science and the useful arts"?

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  9. Some Context by mechsoph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm one of the (~20 million) people who pays for the CSIRO, so don't be calling me greedy for wanting some payback.

    As an American whose tax dollars fund (D)ARPA, I demand payback from all other nations using the Internet. Also, I think the good citizens of California whose tax dollars helped fund BSD would like some too.

  10. Patents and the Global Public Good by mechsoph · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Patents exist to pay the fixed cost of invention by granting a temporary monopoly. The other option to cover the fixed cost is subsidy. Publicly funded research organizations like the CSIRO work based on the subsidy method. The cost is paid by the public, so the public should have use of the invention. The only question here is whether Australia is going to act like other nations where public means WORLD (considering the actions of ARPA, UC Berkeley, and INRIA), or whether they're going to be dicks.