Watchdog To Represent eBay Seller In Autodesk Suit

New10k writes "Following up on a recent Slashdot discussion, nonprofit consumer advocacy group Public Citizen has agreed to provide an attorney to eBay seller Timothy S. Vernor, who is suing Autodesk in federal court over misuse of the DMCA to stifle competition. The advocacy group has identified elements of the Vernor case as some of its key litigation priorities for 2007. The article includes an interview with Vernor's new lawyer, Greg Beck, who was a software engineer for Microsoft before going to law school."

Comments

Autodesk? Suit?

[pimpimpim]

I've never heard of this case before, running through the article I guess the problem is Autodesk doesn't want him to sell used software packages of their software AutoCAD.

The bastards, I would say! It's like trying to prevent selling used music CDs or used books. How long will we have to cope with companies 'selling' us stuff when they mean 'lending'. Either they let us SIGN a contract BEFORE we buy explaining how they want to deliver their product (lend it, lease it), or if they don't do that, we can consider it BOUGHT and our property. You can not in retrospect claim someone didn't buy (gain ownership) to the product if you didn't make that completely clear beforehand. They ask enough money for the product to make it sure look like you have the right to own it and do what you want with it.

Re:Autodesk? Suit?

[91degrees]

Quite true, and everyone involved in the transaction except Autodesk is pretty certain it's a sale. I bet even Autodesk do at some point.

Customer to shop: "I'd like to buy a copy of AutoCAD" Shop to Customer: "Sure. There's your copy. That will be $799" Shop to Autodesk: "We'd like to buy another 20 copies of AutoCAD" Bet you Autodesk don't say "Well we can only sell you a license" at this point. It certainly doesn't clearly say "License to use AutoCAD" on the box.

Re:Autodesk? Suit?

[pimpimpim]

You only get to see the contract AFTER buying. Someone should test how legal this can be. There are things I won't own but pay for it, say my DSL connection. I do get to read and are asked to read the contract before I buy it. I am ok with that because I can be fully aware of the conditions before I pay for it (I actually do read this stuff to be sure when and how I can get rid of the contract in the case I want to switch). But if I buy a watch or a bread or anything that didn't ask me to sign a contract before buying it, I would surely not expect or comply to any "suprise!" contract that is in the package after opening it.

Let them sell personal licenses straight up front then! If I want to use matlab, I contact the sales representative and he will tell me the price for one year of Matlab use, it would be fully clear I don't own the software. Even then it might be legal to sell, say a remaining license period. Why not, I can also transfer my DSL contract to someone else when I move.

Re:Autodesk? Suit?

[Sique]

For some reason you seem to believe that you can't resell a license. Why not?
And for some reason you seem to believe that you can't sell some property that comes with a license.
What happens if the shop that bought AutoCAD burns down? What do they claim from their insurance: 1 copy of AutoCAD? Or do they tell Autodesk: "Hey, your CD-Box which we happened to license from you just burnt down, please do your own claim!"

eBay's the guilty party here

[mwvdlee]

Autodesk was probably just sending DMCA's for any eBay ad that sounded like warez being offered.

They could have done a bit more to research this propperly, as the DMCA assumes, but the real problem here is that eBay just ignores any complaints about blatantly obvious (and provable) warez offered on their service without having to resort to legal measures.

Their own Vero service which is supposed to help in this department is a total sham; I've never even gotten response or noticed any actions being taken despite sending clear evidence that warez were being offered.

To me, the guilty party is eBay, for not taking any responsibiliy in upholding their own anti-warez policy. The only way to get eBay to stop being a warez middleman is by sending out DMCA's and with the sheer amount of warez on eBay, it was only a matter of time before this would happen.

I'm not saying Autodesk is innocent here; technically, they should have done the research. Just saying that none of this would have happened if eBay just did what their policy claims.

Why is eBay subject to DMCA takedown provisions?

[yuna49]

I asked this question the first time this case came up and got no replies. I'll ask it again.

Under what theory does the DMCA apply to eBay sellers? Unlike YouTube, eBay hosts no copyrighted materials. (For simplicity's sake, let's leave aside trivial objections like when a seller's advertisement includes a photograph of a copyrighted work.) Is the claim based on some extension of the Grokster decision, arguing that eBay somehow constitutes a "contributory infringer" if it hosts an auction for copyrighted materials? That seems to run squarely up against the first-sale doctrine. If I buy a book, there's no reason why I can't resell it on eBay.

I realize that the Autodesk case is more complicated since it brings into play issues of licensing vs. ownership, the enforceability of EULAs and the like. The only way I could see eBay being charged with contributory infringement is if they knowingly encourage the sale of illicit copies of copyrighted works. Even then, I think it's a hard case to make. In Grokster, the Court's argument rested largely on the fact that Grokster explicitly encouraged infringement by distributing its software application and hosting advertising on its website. How does that apply to eBay?

This could be the end of "physical" software...

[BUL2294]

While I'm all for this guy winning (and hopefully turning this into a class-action against Autodesk, eBay, etc.), I do wonder if this means that software manufacturers will no longer physically offer their software (i.e. CD, DVD, etc.) but will require you to download it. Everyone has been saying something to the effect of... "A CD is like a book--you can sell it, burn it, give it away, as long as 1 person has that item..." So if a physical CD is no longer offered, then that will be the next battle because then a software vendor will be able to truly say you licensed it by downloading it...

Vero...my own personal Auction...

[AbuBamsry]

Dear XXXXX (XXXXX@yahoo.com),

**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**

We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:

3627618857 Autodesk Discreet 3D Studio MAX R3.1 Bundle

because a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program participant notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your item infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights.

We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction.

If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely will be suspended.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the VeRO Program participant directly at:

Autodesk
andrew@donahue.com

eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the VeRO Program participant that requested the removal of your listings, we encourage you to contact them first.

For more information on the VeRO Program, and a list of VeRO Program participant About Me pages, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) eBay Inc