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Jon Udell on the Nerd's Spreadsheet

rcs1000 writes "Jon Udell has a interesting article on a new type of spreadsheet: one targeted specifically at techies. The skinny is that any spreadsheet is actually a computer program, only in Resolver One, the product profiled in Udell's piece, this is explicit rather than implicit. And the code is IronPython rather than VBA. There are some other cool things it does — allowing cells to contain objects, and allowing spreadsheets to back-end websites." Udell's screencast gives a good demo, though the presenters are a bit hard to hear due to the phone connection. Resolver's own screencast is an alternative.

13 of 168 comments (clear)

  1. Can it... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 5, Funny

    Multiply 850*77.1 correctly?

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    1. Re:Can it... by Daimanta · · Score: 3, Funny

      And if you can, how do you maintain compatibility with Office Excel calculations?

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  2. Why should I use this rather than SQL? by quanticle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    SQL databases have become much lighter and more efficient these days. Why should I use this store data over a lightweight SQL database?

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    1. Re:Why should I use this rather than SQL? by PJ1216 · · Score: 3, Informative

      i don't think its a matter of storing data (or at least large amounts). thats never what spreadsheets were for. they were based more around displaying data and processing data. yes, they can be used for large amounts, but they never really were meant as storage in the same way a database was. they're just saying these spreadsheets could start serving some of the same purposes.

    2. Re:Why should I use this rather than SQL? by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why use a database or spreadsheet? Why not something like the R Project?

      Because you have to learn yet another cryptic set of functions to do what is easily accomplished in Excel (or any other spreadsheet)? Most people couldn't give a fuck less about using any package to its full potential and most people utilize Excel as a database rather than a spreadsheet (almost everyone in my wife's company for example).

      A spreadsheet will do just fine for the majority of people and the rest would probably use something like Crystal Reports to do anything more advanced. Why? Because there is professional documentation and training available for those packages and R Project requires posts to mailing lists or forums to get answers outside of your own self research on the web. From what I can see in my own personal experience, people working in the real world don't want to spend the time searching around the Internet through mailing list posts and forums for their answers. They want to plunk down $350 and sit through a 6 hour seminar offering them 1 CEU.

      YMMV.

  3. 2D programming? by 16384 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Organising code on a spreadsheet... I guess it will resemble Befunge

  4. Allowing spreadsheets to what? by winkydink · · Score: 4, Funny

    and allowing spreadsheets to back-end websites

    munge them?
    hack them?
    copulate with them?

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  5. Re:Logical conclusion by Teun · · Score: 4, Funny

    Life is a grid with a logic tree, dude. It's called Tetris.
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  6. The old saying is true. by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everything looks like a nail when all you have is a hammer.
    Spreadsheets are so useful today that they can do many tasks that are better done with other tools... If you know the other tools.

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  7. Misuse of spreadsheets by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A good portion of spreadsheets actually should be database tables of some kind. People end up manually grouping and other stuff that report-writers can do automatically. What is needed is a kind of "dynamic" RDBMS tool that has open-ended columns and column widths. A "spreadbase"? The Oracle clones are all too rigid.

    As far as spreadsheets for programming, I've experimented a lot with data dictionaries to simplify column management and column sub-sets for regular ol' edit-and-report screens. So far it is tricky because one often wants to tweak something for a particular context and one-size-fits-all hits a wall. The trick is finding a good, clean way to "override" specifics from the table when needed or just make alternative entries of a given column and select them via set notation when needed; but I've yet to find a clean, simple convention. It ends up fairly messy such that regular copy-and-paste is unfortunately the cleaner solution much of the time. Maybe if the toolset and the language was geared toward nimble data dictionaries, these approaches would be smoother. Forcing a non-data-oriented language to act data-oriented is like trying to keep a toddler in line.

    1. Re:Misuse of spreadsheets by voidspace · · Score: 4, Informative

      "A good portion of spreadsheets actually should be database tables of some kind." Databses are good for storing data and spreadsheets are great for analysing and presenting data. Resolver works very well with databases and so makes it easier to keep your data there - and still have a powerful analysis / presentation tool.

  8. Just found a new way to sleep at work by russ1337 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wow... that screencast is perfect for me to sit facing the screen with my eyes closed, and anyone that walks past my cube will think i'm doing some spreadsheet wizardry....

    nice. Now i'll go someway toward meeting the quota for those that sleep at work.

  9. VBA already does this... by gillbates · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And does it poorly. And insecurely.

    You can already access spreadsheet content from Visual Basic, and include VB script in spreadsheets. The same scripting ability which allows the "wow" features in spreadsheets also creates the potential for abuse - remember macro viruses? Suddenly, documents which formerly contained only data now contained executable code, and it gave rise to a security nightmare.

    Yes, today, with VBA, you can do what the article mentions. In fact, it's been possible for years. Problem is that:

    1. Very few people use it, and
    2. Those who do use it tend to use it poorly.
    Yes, you can back end a website with your spreadsheet. But why would you? A spreadsheet is a horrible way to manage data; there's no referential integrity checks, no versioning, no security, and doesn't scale well. Furthermore, your crucial data is tied to a particular application, rather than a database.

    Just like VBA, it's a nice nerd's toy, but the wise system programmer recognizes that it has limitations.

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