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Rate of Evolution Metrics Observed

eldavojohn notes an article up at Science Daily on research demonstrating that smaller animals with warmer blood evolve faster than larger, colder animals. From the article: "Across species from fish to mammals, they found that rates of protein evolution showed the same body size and temperature dependence as metabolic rate. Specifically, their mathematical model predicts that a 10-degree increase in temperature across species leads to about a 300 percent increase in the evolutionary rate of proteins, while a tenfold decrease in body size leads to about a 200 percent increase in evolutionary rates."

14 of 267 comments (clear)

  1. fater metabolism means... by mr_mischief · · Score: 5, Insightful

    more cell division, shorter lifespan, and more more abundant reproduction. All of these mean mutations collect in the population faster. Bacteria evolve much faster than mice, BTW, and they're not warm-blooded since they have no blood. Yet, they reproduce at a much faster rate and the mutations add up faster.

    I didn't read TFA, but TFS tells us nothing common sense and a basic high-school understanding of biology couldn't predict as a hypothesis. That someone has gathered evidence to support the hypothesis empirically is pretty cool, though. Even what seems apparent should be tested, or it's not really science.

  2. theory by HelloKitty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    that word theory. i'm not sure it means what you think it means.

  3. Misleading by ucblockhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The rate of *evolution* is determined more by how much environmental pressure an animal is under. The more successful an animal is in a particular niche, the slower it will evolve. This is really talking about the mutation rate, and thus the rate of genetic drift. This says that the sort of random changes to proteins that don't effect the animal's phenotype will change faster in smaller animals.

    It *does* mean that smaller animals can evolve faster if under lots of evolutionary pressure. Note that since smaller animals tend to breed faster, this is already the case.

    --
    The cake is a pie
  4. Better term is drift... by highacnumber · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Using the term "evolutionary rate" is pretty misleading: whats happening is that the genomes are changing faster, but almost all of that change isn't from any selective pressure. Its mostly "neutral drift", things changing randomly in a way that does not impact the fitness of the organism.

    1. Re:Better term is drift... by toganet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thank you -- I'd mod you insightful if I had points. My biggest pet peeve with the so-called debate around evolution is the notion that there is some sort of directionality to it. Popular media tends to reinforce this by using phrases like "more evolved."

    2. Re:Better term is drift... by mollymoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mutations may be random and directionless, but evolution tends in the direction of greater fitness.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    3. Re:Better term is drift... by aron1231 · · Score: 0, Insightful

      "my biggest pet peeve with the so-called debate around evolution is the notion that there is some sort of directionality to it."

      As opposed to what, it being completely random? We have another name for that, its called mutation. Since we are bound by laws (nature and physics [called God by some]), it only makes sense that evolution would continue to express itself in better ways within that system. Darwinism implies direction, that being "survival of the fittest"! I guess I don't understand your peeve, since the alternative - evolution with no direction (aka mutation), happening at complete randomness in completely random ways, is completely absurd. Anything that is not beneficial would be called "devolution", and products of such a process would cease to exist rather quickly because of their inherent inferiority.

      If I'm completely misunderstanding you, please clarify.

    4. Re:Better term is drift... by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Viruses. Bacteria.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    5. Re:Better term is drift... by Jonathan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Er no. And I speak as a professional evolutionary biologist. Selection is only a teeny, tiny part of the evolutionary process. The problem is that the evolutionary biologists that have written for the general public, such as Gould and Dawkins (neither of which are particularly famous in the actual scientific community) studied evolution in the old-fashioned, non-molecular sense (and I do mean *studied* Even Dawkins, who is still alive, hasn't actually done any science in years; it's so much easier to write for the general public than for peer review). Anyone studying evolution in the modern molecular era realizes that drift and molecular drive are far more common than selection.

  5. Re:This explains everything! by quag7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And my theory is they're making shit up to appease that wing of their constituencies and that they aren't creationist or intelligent design fans at all.

    Can you imagine how refreshing it would be if a candidate introduced himself at the first debate by saying:

    "My name is Quag7, and I believe that the best explanations currently available for our origin are Darwin's Theory of Evolution, and the Big Bang. I do not believe in ghosts, UFOs, stigmata, or bleeding statues. I believe in literacy, science, and education, and reason. I believe that there are better and more compelling reasons to lead a virtuous life than the threat of hellfire. I believe in honesty, morality, integrity, and honor, because they serve the self as they in turn serve the public good.

    I believe in the open and free exchange of information, oppose censorship, and support the right of each and every human being on this planet to think, worship, and copulate as they like. I believe that the golden rule transcends all civilizations. I believe in the value and power of the individual.

    I believe that rights transcend national borders and that if they are valid and apply at all to human beings, that they apply to all human beings equally.

    I believe that the real saints of our world are the freethinkers, dissidents, and whistleblowers.

    I am inspired by the Renaissance. I am a child of The Enlightenment. I believe that our species should be most concerned with the pursuit of beauty, discovery, exploration, and adventure.

    I believe that all human beings are fallible, and that it is necessary to question all of our most deeply held assumptions, and that the greatest example of courage a human being can display is to admit that they are wrong.

    I believe that war is truly a last resort, and, when waged, the only thing we should feel about it is regret that it was necessary at all.

    I believe in pizza Fridays."

    Wouldn't that be refreshing? Especially the pizza Fridays bit?

  6. Re:But... but... by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 3, Insightful
    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  7. Re:5. Profit! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Evolution happens" -> (then a miracle of logic occurs) -> "evolution exhaustively explains origins and incidentally there is no God" The miracle is in misinformation rather than logic. No scientist thinks evolution exhaustively explains origins (or even the narrower topic of biological origins), and evolution says nothing about the existence of any gods.

    The fact of evolution does show that certain evolution-denying cults have at least one false claim in their creeds, but that's a far narrower conclusion than what you suggested.


    Nice troll, though.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. Re:But... but... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's very important for students to come to an understanding that there is a difference between the incontrovertible fact that 2 + 2 = 4, and the likelihood that birds are one branch of an evolutionary path from a distinct group of dinosaurs. One is intrinsically true, whereas the other has some exceptionally convincing evidence, but too many alternative possibilities to be solidly provable without a time machine and a very dedicated research team. Students need to know the difference.

    I hate to break your bubble, but 2+2=4 is not, and never has been a fact, let alone an incontrovertible one. Yes, there is some exceptionally convincing evidence, especially when experiments and comparisions with the real world are provided. But the fact of the matter is that 2+2=4 is simply a theory, stemming from axioms and some additional constructions. In fact, some people just accept it flat out as an axiom in its own right.

    2+2=4 in our number system, not because that's the way the universe works, but because that's the way we have made our number system. There's a hell of a lot of different possibilities, but nothing is solidly provable without some ZFC set theory and a team of research mathematicians. Students need to know the difference.
    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  9. Re:But... but... by edwdig · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, evolution has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. It is one of the most solid scientific theories (which is different from the common usage of the word theory) known. In other words, it is one of the best established conclusions of science to date.

    Small scale evolution is proven. Plants & insects splitting into strains that can't cross breed, maybe some small noticable differences. That stuff isn't too hard to reproduce.

    But an ape evolving into a human, or a dinosaur into a bird can't be proven. You can find evidence that suggests it's highly likely that it happened, but unless you can form a family tree that goes back millions of years, you can't prove it.

    Evolution has much more evidence than theories about gravity, chemical structure, the earth going around the sun, etc. To imply evolution has less evidence than other scientific theories is deceptive, when in reality it has much more than most.

    Evolution in the form that's in dispute takes millions of years to occur. You can't experiment on that. You can't observe it without a time machine. Everything else you listed you can set up experiments to test.

    And I really don't get the point, the bible was already 'wrong' about the earth being the center of the universe. It didn't destroy the religion or change anything. Neither does evolution.

    I do agree with you there. The Bible is a set of stories and guidelines written to be understood by people who lived thousands of years ago. You have to treat it in that context, not as an absolute.