What is the Best Way to Start a Paid GPL Project?

pooslinger writes "I know little to nothing about programming but would like to start, fund, and maintain a GPL linux POS application. I see there are a few available with the majority being closed source. I am currently starting a business and really despise the fact that I will have to spend $2-$5k on a proprietary solution. I would like to create an application where you could take a midrange PC, connect inexpensive touchscreens, barcode readers, thermal printers, credit card readers, etc; scan/input inventory; and begin selling. Something like a Debian POS distribution that boots into X and starts a POS terminal. Does something like this exist, am I just trying to reinvent the wheel?" How have other people approached starting a new GPL project, finding talent, and ensuring the code choices best benefit the community?

Comments

Success = Strong Leader + Initial Codebase

[gbulmash]

First off, you really need to check SourceForge.net or FreshMeat.net first. There there are plenty of POS software projects listed at both. Find one that looks like what you're wanting to do and hasn't run out of steam, and give it a shot in the arm with some cash. Maybe spread your cash around two or three of them.

That said, the question of how you start and attract talent to an open source project... I'm not professor on the history of open source, but the most successful projects I've seen are ones where a coder or small group of coders put out an alpha of their project and it was playing with the alpha and seeing the possibilities in it that got people excited enough to come on board and start pushing things forward.

So, if you're not happy with any of the POS projects you can find on SourceForge or FreshMeat, and since you clami to know "little to nothing about programming," I'd suggest going over to eLance or RentACoder and spend a good chunk of your seed money on getting an offshore firm to build your alpha for you. While they're coding their hearts out for you (they'll want 2-3 months to work on your contract), take that time to get to know the open source community and how people launch their open source projects.

Then, when your offshore coders come back to you with a decent alpha, pick an open source license (BSD, GPL v2, GPL v3, etc.), and use the knowledge you've picked up in the prior few months to get the word out and spread the code around. If you did your homweork well and spread the word well, that seed you planted may well sprout.

But remember this, a strong open source project needs a strong leader who can handle the big picture outlook, keep all the volunteers in line and focused on the goal, and drive the project forward. You're going to have to approach some strong personalities one-on-one and try to recruit that project leader. Without a strong leader, failure is a definite possibility.

Just my $0.02.

- Greg

Re:Success = Strong Leader + Initial Codebase

[OverlordQ]

I'd recommend the above except for going to RentACoder/eLance for an Alpha. I can almost guarantee you that anybody who wants to contribute to a GPL project will absolutely hate having to figure out whatever spaghetti code that the bottom-dollar code shop spat out.

Re:Success = Strong Leader + Initial Codebase

[JimDaGeek]

I see you posted as an AC. A POS is anything _but_ mundane.

I worked on a new POS for a fortune 500. There were a ton of requirements both from our side (programmers) and the hardware side (admins). It was actually one of the coolest projects I worked on in the last 10 years.

I got to really understand the needs of the admins as a programmer, and they got to see the reality of software systems. We (programmers) made compromises and they (admins) made compromises in the system.

The "simple" POS had to be fault tolerant. If if could not send back a transaction to a master server, it had to store it. One it could talk to the master again, it could send the transaction. This had to be done across a few thousand locations. The systems needed to be self "healing" (manager speak), we made them self updating by asking a master update server over frame relay for a version, get back an XML file and self-update from there.

There were a sh!t load of other requirements we had to handle on the software side like SOX, etc. The final POS was anything but simple. Oh, and the admins has a crap load of work to do as well. Those guys worked their @sses off to get each location secure and plugged in to our AD server, our Netegrity server, etc. Our software or POS system handled the AD and Netegrity communications, but there was a lot more for the admins to do then it seemed at first.

So, yeah, I think most programmers and admins would find implementing a real POS systems a good challenge. I know I did.

Linux Cananda has a Linux GPL (and commercial) POS

[waa]

Have you seen their products?

http://www.linuxcanada.com/pos.shtml

I am not affiliated, just been aware of them for 3-4 years now.

Before the jokes start

[OldeTimeGeek]

about just using Windows if you want a POS, it means Point of Sale.

Oppertunity Cost and Security

[hardburn]

In terms of opportunity cost, you'll likely spend that same $2-5k making a custom solution. Also, realize that the modern POS has over a century of lessons learned about securing cash registers from theft (particularly employee theft). You'll want to find developers who have specifically worked on POS applications before, or you won't benefit from all that knowledge.

Re-inventing the wheel

[Chandon Seldon]

You probably are re-inventing the wheel.

There are a number of existing free software POS apps. I'd suggest going through the list with a fine tooth comb and making sure that none of them even comes close to meeting your needs before trying to start a new project.

http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=point+of+sale&section=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

Don't

[geekoid]

""I know little to nothing about programming but would like to start, fund, and maintain a GPL linux POS application."

It will be a nightmare to maintain, and won't be fit for general consumption. It probably couldn't even be used as a framwork.

Programming take training, and POS invlves understanging issues you haven't even thought of.

What you could do is Fund one. It will cost more then a couple of grand.

There are several approaches to this:
Hire contractor, pay them for there work, open the code. This gets you something running, and once there post it and ask for contribute it.
You might be able to get several small business to pitch in to the POS fund.

You could get some students looking to write a thesis together to get you going.

You could get some professionals to do it on weekends in exchange for equipment they get to keep. Or perhaps your business produce something you can use to trade.
--I fall into the category.

In any case, define what you want as specifically as you can. Don't do it in a language that can't be cross compiled.

Organizing project would be a great help to. That is what slow or stops a lot of projects. No one to organize or follow-up.

Please don't write it yourself without some training. I have worked on many system buyilt be very smart people with no training, and they all sucked.

Use your energy to manage the project until it gets to a point where it is usable to you. That includes allowing or disallowing contributers who want to contribute any functionality you didn't originally have in mind. Let them fork it, but don't get caught in function chasing.

Pointy-haired management, check.

[RobertB-DC]

I am currently starting a business and really despise the fact that I will have to spend $2-$5k on a proprietary solution. I would like to create an application where you could take a midrange PC, connect inexpensive touchscreens, barcode readers, thermal printers, credit card readers, etc; scan/input inventory; and begin selling.

You say you don't want to spend as little as $2,000 on your POS terminal? You can't buy a business-ready PC and the touchscreen for that price! Have you even priced those components? Try Froogle: $500 and up for an LCD, which you want unless you're operating in a cleanroom. As for the PC, sure you can get a consumer-quality box with wirez sticking out for $500. Is it designed for mission-critical 24/7 uptime? Or is it likely as not to fail under load. Do you have all the possible software installed on it to prevent hacking of your customer information? I don't think you can get those two components alone, in the application you're using them for, with less than $2k.

Don't think you can cheap out and get everything you need at Wal-Mart and Craigslist -- you're running a business, not a hobby. You want to spend your time making money, not tweaking equipment. You don't want to spend $5,000, but what's the cost of making your customers stand in line while you try to figure out why your hacked-together hardware and software doesn't Just Work? Whether you're running a dollar store or selling overpriced speaker cables, you can't afford the downtime.

Spend the money on a system that works out of the box. If you're too cheap to do it right, then please comb your hair into a stylish point and congratulate yourself: welcome to Management!

Support?

[Major Blud]

If you want to get an open source POS package, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is support. When the package breaks, are you going to be able to contact the coders for help? (Sure, it should be written to never break, but let's be realistic.) You may know enough to fix it, but what about your employees? They won't necessarily be able to get you on the phone when they need to. I used to work for a company that produced a mediocre POS package, and the amount of support calls we used to receive was insane. Everything from hardware, software, training questions, networking....we had it all. Point is, make sure that you have someone waiting on the phone for you when stuff happens.

Re:Support?

[gbulmash]

If I had mod points, I'd mod parent up.

My first IT job was managing the POS system for my dad's restaurant. Given this was 1989 and everything would crash and burn if the dot matrix printer jammed during the nightly reporting run.

Still, with all the niggling little problems, that whole thing would have bricked within a month without a support contract.

My favorite little quirk of it was that when you logged into the system for the day (it was also the time clock), at the end of the process, you pushed the "print" button instead of the "enter" button. That was because at the end, it was supposed to print your daily ID code.

That was very non-intuitive. So, one day I get calld down to the restaurant floor from the admin offices upstairs. One of the terminals has locked up. One of the wait staff tried to log in, but the machine keeps giving them this error code that they've filled up the screen with. Half of the wait staff and even one of the cooks is at the terminal, trying to figure it out. To show me how the error message keeps coming up, they hit the "enter" button a few times.

I say "remember, when you're clocking in, you hit the 'print' button at the end, not 'enter'." I hit the "print" button, the screen clears, the waitperson's daily code is printed, and the terminal is back to normal.

Remember that POS is a mission critical, live-fire production system. If it crashes or starts hiccuping, you're looking at lost money, lost productivity, etc. You're looking at half your staff gathered around it, giving unhelpful suggestions and asking dumb questions until the person who knows how it works can fix it. Thats why, even with 20+ open source alternatives, closed source flourishes. No matter how good the open source project is reputed to be, if there's no local vendor who can provide timely on-site support, there will be a lot of businesses who want nothing to do with it.

- Greg

PCI-DSS / PA-DSS

[MtlDty]

You've jumped on the bandwagon at just the wrong time. The EFT industry (which I'm part of) is currently going through a bit of an upheaval to increase security of card number data. If you're seriously thinking about devloping a POS solution, then I would take a long hard look at the number of hoops you need to jump through to become compliant.
PCI-DSS covers system and network security. PA-DSS (still in draft format, and perhaps still better known as PABP) covers software application security. There are also things like EMVCo if you're thinking about chip and pin cards, and APACS standards (in the UK - not sure what the US equivalent is) for message formats to and between acquiring banks.

Considering you state you havent even learnt coding yet, you will most certainly be jumping in at the deep end with this task. I've got around 10 years experience in the field, and the pace of change is... breathtaking. Good luck - you'll need it! :)

Realistically...

[C10H14N2]

1) You can get a very nice shrink-wrapped POS system, including hardware, for a lot less than $5k.
2) You will not be able to develop even a very crappy POS system from scratch, sans hardware, for $5k--even at Bangalore rates.
3) While you develop a going-to-be-crap-for-a-long-time POS system, you need a reliable one to run your business.
4) Many software development projects die unceremonious yet expensive deaths.
5) This may be nothing but a colossal waste of time and money.

Because of all of the above, if you really are peeved to the point of diving into building something from scratch, you're going to need to know /something/ about programming, even if you eventually hire someone else to do it. Research the existing commercial offerings and open source offerings. Find one of each that you think works for you. BUY the one to run your business now, TRY the open source one in your own time, then learn enough about the language behind the open source one to modify it for your needs. After you've got enough chops to tweak around the open source project, then start thinking about branching or starting your own, with or without the aid of hired guns. Chances are, by the end of this, you'll find that:

1) The commercial product is sufficient
2) The cost-benefit exchange makes rolling your own FAR from cost-effective
3) You're not a software company
4) The time and money it would take to become one is enormous and way too risky
5) You have better things to do with your time and money anyway

Re:Realistically...

[peti]

I totally agree with the parent.

I'm talking from a first hand experience, since I've been working on a Java POS solution for past 18 months. I'm a part of a new team of 6 developers dedicated to this project. The company has been (continuously and successfully) in PC POS business for the past 15 years. We are replacing their legacy DOS application. Here are some lesson we learned (some are POS specific, some are valid for enterprise SW development in general):

1. We couldn't have done it, if the company didn't already have extensive experience in this market. Programming experience is not enough, one has to know the market and customer expectations. PC POS is a tough market with a lot of competition that has been around for ages (lately including Microsoft). You can not get by with an amateur product.
2. Forget about the low-end off-the-shelf PC hardware. POS needs reliability (every hour of down-time means real money lost + getting a bad name with customers). Go for all-in-one specialized POS systems. They start at about $1500 (+options).
3. POS market needs support, even if some inexperienced first-time merchants think otherwise. Prepare some support plans and people to do it.
4. Store owners/managers put A LOT of emphasis on controlling their own staff. All serious POS systems are concurrent multi-user enabled (multiple users logged-in to application at the same time with fast GUI switching). RFID dongle for every user is what really works in the end.
5. You will not be able to customize the application for every small customer and their POS process. A lot of times you will have to teach them best POS practices and have this supported in the application. However you will have to bow to the bigger customers and customize the application for them. Result: you will end up with a lot of different sub-versions of the application. Bug-fixing and upgrade process is going to be a pain. Plan for it before all this starts.
6. Sales people will always sell features that are not there yet or are impossible to produce (due to technical or cost constraint). Train sales people to check with you first.
7. Have people that are not developers test the application before release. Testing your own code virtually means nothing. Once you release it to the customers you'll be amazed at how many bugs they can discover. As if all the unit testing and hand testing was in vain (it is not, continue with unit testing etc)
8. Write comments and API documentation (javadoc or equivalent). I REALLY MEAN IT. I often find myself wondering what a piece of code is doing, just to discover that I wrote it 6 months ago.
9. Do not write UML or any other developer documentation that is outside of code. It's just additional work that is always out of sync with code. And it only makes PHBs happy. Only exception to this rule is a short architecture overview of max 10 pages - this will save your time when new developers arrive on the project.
10. Choose a good IDE and be willing to pay money for it. Good IDE is much more important than a good car! Some developers I know are you willing to spend obscene amounts on a car but nothing on an IDE. You can always get a cab if your car lets you down, but IDE.. Again - this is no place to save money.
11. You should already know this: you need a versioning control system and a continuous integration system. Go with open source ones - they just work.
12. Automatic update system for your application is A GOOD THING. Selective (forceable, with consent) update per customer is even better. Try to stage updates - update first customers that are close to you (in miles and mentality). If all works well, roll out to everybody.
13. In case of troubleshooting a remote connection (VPN, RD, SSH, whatever..) to customers computer is worth a lot. Try to plan this upfront.

That's about it. Good luck writing your own POS application, just to save $2k.

And next time you need a new car, just build one.

Re:Success = sound business model

[kylben]

Of course, supporting the software might turn into a secondary revenue stream, or it might be the kernel of a start-up for someone else.

Or, better yet, it could be something he could recruit other businesses into supporting with some cash, so that it increases the odds that he (and the others) will get a quality piece of software ("QPOS"), and that the coders will find a market for books (like "QPOS Unleashed in 24 Hours for Dummies: The Missing Bible in a Nutshell") and for support/customization contracts, thus possibly reducing their demands for cash.

Re:Success = sound business model

[zotz]

"The article poster is about to discover a harsh reality of the open source model: if you give your software away, profit-making businesses aren't going to pay for it unless there's something else in there to sweeten the deal and the software is just a means to that end."

I would not bet on this. If a piece of software is central to a business, they will want reliable support before commiting to that software. A smart business might just hold off until professional contracted support is available.

"If you're expecting to make money just by developing and supplying open source POS software, you've got the wrong business model..."

Right, unless you go into the bespoke and paid up front angle.

I also still feel that there is hugh untapped potential in Association funding.

National Retail Merchants Association? Local Chamber of Commerce? National Locksmiths Association? How much could they benefit their members if they charged $5 extra for membership and used that to fund Free Copyleft (GPL) programs that would benefit their members / industry?

There is money to be saved with this idea and the old saying of "a penny saved is a penny earned" still makes sense.

all the best,

drew

http://openphoto.net/gallery/index.html?user_id=178
Underwater Fun

Penny Wise ?

[raftpeople]

I've got the same problem with movies. No way I'm spending $10 for 90 minutes of entertainment. So, if anyone knows some actors, film crew, etc. I am willing to pay salaries, as long as we can keep the entire budget under about 7 dollars.

Don't be an Idiot

[Slashdot Parent]

Don't be an idiot. You're trying to start a business, yet you are creating a monstrosity of a barrier to entry for yourself. When you're in business, you do what you're good at (what makes you money) and you buy what you are not good at. You said yourself, that you have no idea how to run a software development project.

If you do "roll your own", you have no idea how long it will take to build this thing, what the quality will be, whether or not it will interface with your accounting software, what the response time will be for breakage, what it will ultimately cost, and probably about 100 other things that neither you nor I are thinking of right now. In the meantime, you are losing money.

On the other hand, you could buy a package and be up and running tomorrow.

Buy a QuickBooks POS for $800 and get on with your business plan. In five years you'll be able to start a charity open source project.

As someone who started two successful businesses, I can't believe you even asked this question.

Don't muddle your business model

[ClosedSource]

Clearly if the primary business is retail than it would be much smarter to pay for a proprietary POS (or use an existing OSS version) than starting a new OSS project. The latter approach is going to take a long time to get to the level where it can be used effectively for a business and there's a significant risk that it never will.

He should get the core business profitable ASAP and then if he has money left to burn, he can hire people to create any OSS product he wants - there's no particular reason why his choice should be limited to applications related to his "day business".

The bottom line is that starting a software project (proprietary or OSS) to support some aspect of a new business is not a very good idea unless the software is a core part of the business and isn't available from anyone else. Unfortunately in that scenario the software is likely to hold most of the value of the business and so making it OSS will probably limit profitability in the future.

I'm glad

[Slashdot Parent]

I'm glad you're not an idiot, but even smart people do idiotic things from time to time. As for me, I'm an idiot who every once in a while does something clever. We all have to live with our limitations.

At any rate, I'm going to have to stick with my original advice. It's great and altruistic and all that you want to create a whiz-bang open source POS solution. Your heart is in the right place, but your head is not.

Wait until you see a lot of black ink on your financial statements. Wait until your business requires only 40 hours per week from you.

Starting a business takes everything you've got. I know so many people who tried to start this or that type of business and just get bogged down in some irrelevant project. I know one guy who was so convinced not to hire an accountant that he got stuck researching the optimal type of corporate entity to use, then he got stuck learning basic bookkeeping, then he got stuck learning tax accounting. Meanwhile, he never made a single sale. Ever.

I know a lady who started a jewelry business and she had two lines. Her first was wildly successful, but she decided to pour everything into a second line while neglecting the first. Oh, sure, the company is still in business. But it is bleeding red ink everywhere. It's only afloat because her husband is a partner in a law firm. I can't believe he hasn't pulled the plug on this yet. It's easily a 6 figure loss for them.

I could go on forever. The point is, concentrate on what makes you money! This POS idea is going to take you thousands of miles outside of your comfort zone, and just as many miles off your business plan. It is going to cost many, many thousands of dollars. You will not be able to hire a few Indians to hammer this out over a weekend--cheap coders need perfect requirements and specs, which you will never have. Anyway, you do not want your business running on software that was hammered out by a few Indians over a weekend with ambiguous specs.

Lastly and most importantly, I wish you the best of luck with your business. And since it sounds like your mind is made up to get mired in this POS POS (ha ha get it?), I'll wish you the best of luck with that as well. Just promise yourself you'll gauge its progress with ruthless objectivity and pull the plug on it quickly. ;)