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Lessons To Learn From The OLPC Project

FixedSpelling writes "Whether you're impressed with it or not, the XO-1 could have a major impact on notebook design. The concept behind the OLPC's development brings outside-the-box thinking and cost-consciousness to a level that we rarely see in portable computing. There are a number of lessons that can be learned the from its unique design and we can already see that some of these concepts have been noticed by manufacturers. 'The biggest attraction to the OLPC project has always been the price of the system. You don't have to be a cynic to understand that the impact of a $100 notebook could be huge and the price has generated the majority of the interest in the project. Notebooks break, they get lost, and they are replaced frequently, so the cheaper, the better. The low price was originally important so that the XO-1 could be produced in large quantities without putting too much of a burden on the buyer but the low cost appeals to everyone.'"

49 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. Crank it up by mastershake_phd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I like the crank. If only I could power my laptop, cell phone, etc that way.

    1. Re:Crank it up by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 2, Informative

      The OLPC no longer has the crank. It can be charged by solar or by a pull-string charger but unless you have your own crank, you can't charge it that way.

    2. Re:Crank it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      >The OLPC no longer has the crank. It can be charged by solar or by a pull-string charger but unless you have your own crank, you can't charge it that way.

      I have my own pull-string, or it can operate as a crank. Any women interested in charging it?

    3. Re:Crank it up by MyLongNickName · · Score: 3, Funny

      Any women interested in charging it?

      Only women interested in charging you would be interested in charging it if you get my drift.

      --
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    4. Re:Crank it up by GTMoogle · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's intended to be able to charge other things through usb.

      And the pullstring is better than a crank because you can put your foot through it and just keep tapping while you work.

  2. Re:first post by mastershake_phd · · Score: 2, Informative

    wtf is an olpc?

    Well if you don't want to RTFA, or search google, or wikipedia: Its One Laptop Per Child http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olpc

  3. my favorite lesson by blhack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The greatest lesson to be learned from this is that not everyone thinks that a super, ultra, mega, turbo powerful and equally as powerful processor is what they need. It was exactly what i was telling somebody at work today. If you are into playing games, rendering video, editing really hi-res photos, or doing music editing...need a REALLY powerful machine, with a LOT of ram (actually if you are doing any of these as your job, you should probably be using a mac). However, if you are like me, and your laptop is more or less a thin client that connects to other machines via either Remote Desktop or SSH, then the cheapest, most durable, lightest, and most efficient laptop is EXACTLY what you need.

    If I could buy a pallet of these things and run rdesktop and OpenVPN on them, half of my users would be using them from home.
    hell, $100 bucks is cheaper than my friggin blackberry! and i bet it doesn't get confused when you throw anything but txt based email at it!

    --
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    1. Re:my favorite lesson by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 2, Informative

      $100 bucks is cheaper than my friggin blackberry!

      Of course, the main problem is that to own one as a US citizen, you apparently need to pay more like $400.

      And for $400, you can get a nicer laptop online or even at your local walmart.

      Wake me up again when I could actually buy them for a non-profit charter public charter school for $100, or even $150 each.
      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    2. Re:my favorite lesson by donnacha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you are into playing games, rendering video, editing really hi-res photos, or doing music editing...need a REALLY powerful machine, with a LOT of ram (actually if you are doing any of these as your job, you should probably be using a mac) No comment.


      Well, I have a comment: Games are what Bootcamp is for.

      For everything else on the list - video rendering, high-res photo-editing, music production - you want to boot right back into OS X.
    3. Re:my favorite lesson by Hymer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You pay $400 for two OLPC's... if you don't like the idea of supporting the project then just don't buy it.

    4. Re:my favorite lesson by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem I have is that I am currently in the position of needing to buy a few hundred computers for little kids in Elementary School and Junior High in one of the lowest funded and poorest rural parts of the country. Any money that I can save on those computers will be used to hire additional teacher aides or purchase additional library books instead.

      If the OLPC people allowed schools to buy the OLPC for it's current $200 cost in order to use it in a non-profit "for the kids" environment, they might actually sell enough of them to get their component costs down to closer to $100 for third-worlders to purchase. Instead, they make the cost $400, making it a better choice for me to either buy a much more useful full $400 laptop for the kids, or (in my case), plan to buy a bunch of inexpensive or used desktops for the kids for around $250 each, complete with Free OS, and spend the difference on other stuff.

      If I want to buy OLPCs to help a poor kid overseas, I can do that by simply paying for one. If that's my motivation (and it might be as a private individual, instead of someone entrused to get the most out of public or donated money for a specific set of kids in the U.S.), then there is no need to require me to buy a second one for local kids.

      Their plan might make sense if there is a hard limit on the number of OLPCs that can be manufactured and sold, but with the world computer construction capacity and their plan to farm out construction to other countries for a nominal fee, that doesn't seem to be that case. In the event that (like most manufactured computer products), the ability to supply them can increase and lower the cost per unit, their tactic should be to sell as many OLPCs to whomever is willing to buy one so that they can turn around and give or sell the rest to "poor kids overseas" as cheaply as possible.

      Instead, their tactic appears to be to limit sales and production as much as possible while they decide who "deserves" to be able to purchase one. As usual, many people who see themselves as "doing good" for the third world either need a lesson in basic economics or need to stop thinking that they have to keep all the power and choice to themselves and control everything in the process.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
  4. Re:How do you get one of these? by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can buy two for $400 starting november 12th. One for you, one is donated to a 3rd world kid.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  5. Re:How do you get one of these? by e9th · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's one way. Not cheap, but you're doing good. http://www.xogiving.org/

  6. computers in education, smalltalk by russellh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What I love the most about the OLPC is the key that lets you show the source code (in python!) of the app in use. Which you can modify. and if you mess it up, revert. I'm astonished to see this concept from smalltalk and Alan Kay live on. It couldn't be a better idea. We were having a discussion in a strategy session at my daughters' small montessori school (which goes thru 6th grade), where we were bemoaning the lack of imaginative uses of technology in the classrooms. Beyond a student-produced newsletter and using word processors to write reports... nothing. Nobody seems to know what to do. But the OLPC is taking the lead in saying kids can and should be allowed to do so much more - the mere fact that here you are given a facility to modify your complex tools should be revolutionary.

    --
    must... stay... awake...
    1. Re:computers in education, smalltalk by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What I love from the specs of the OLPC is the cranking recharging, and networking abilities. From a civil engineer's perspective, it's great for lots of field tasks where you may want to syncronize the compilation of guys working in different ends of the field, while at the same time giving them the ability to keep the device working with occasional cranking ups when the battery is dead and it is not practical to go running back and forth to the truck for recharging. It's ideal for civil engineering field work where you spend 12 hour shifts on site.... Add to it solar cells in ADDITION to the crank and it's wonderful. There are many tasks where you don't need the ultra PC. But the ability to turn into a TABLET added to those other features that I mentioned make it an ideal field computer.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    2. Re:computers in education, smalltalk by SargentDU · · Score: 2, Informative

      They said that there is an external human power device, whether it is a hand crank or a foot pedal device, as well as solar panel, or AC adapter hookups so he was not off-base at all. You should be scoulded yourself.

  7. Re:Maybe they should have patented it all by hax0r_this · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a tremendous amount to patent, but I don't think the OLPC project owns the rights to most of it. Six hour battery life for active use, closer to 24 just using the screen in black and white to read. Pull the string for 1 minute and you get 10 minutes of use. The interface is totally different than anything I have ever used before. A tremendous amount of innovation went into these laptops, and whether I think the project will "succeed" or not, everyone who worked on this project has my respect.

  8. Are you going to try the twofer offer? by shanen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm seriously thinking about it. It's possible that the machine will be so nice that I'll use it for my regular light duty stuff (email and basic surfing). Given the current state of the Internet, I actually feel like it's less likely that the donated machine will help the target kid, but it's supposed to be the thought that counts, eh?

    However, I wish the twofer offer had a provision for donating the second machine if it's too far from tolerable for my uses. I can afford to donate the 400 bucks to charity...

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Are you going to try the twofer offer? by MadUndergrad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure you could find a kid in your area who needs something like that. Donate it locally if you don't have a use for it.

  9. here ya go by zogger · · Score: 5, Informative

    You might like some of the stuff these guys make, including a universal human powered charger for small gadgets. We have a couple of their things, the original crank and spring (clockwork) powered multiband radio, and a later, crank to generator model, excellent build quality there. The OLPC guys are still contemplating going with their foot pedal push generator thing, along with the yo yo string puller last I heard.

  10. All of this could be ripped off... by freezingweasel · · Score: 2, Informative

    From http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Home

    OLPC espouses five core principles: (1) child ownership; (2) low ages; (3) saturation; (4) connection; and ***(5) free and open source.***

    Someone else can run with option 5, to make an equivalent, for adults laptop. Depending on performance, we may finally see a machine mass-produced, showing acceptable speed and avertising that it's doing so despite "under-powered" hardware.

    If this was mass-produced, people would finally have reason to question: why do I need this super-great/expensive machine for the latest OS? Sure we have plenty of tiny OSes out there, Puppy Linux, D*** Small Linux and various others from scratch. The problem is the same that kept Linux from the spotlight... it's not pre-installed on PCs sitting on store shelves.

    (Sure the above efficiency question is asked frequently from one version of Windows to the next, but default installs of Linux flavors trying to be mainstream-ready are a bit slow on older hardware as well.)

    I can't wait to see the results on the marketplace...

    1. Re:All of this could be ripped off... by freezingweasel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OLPC's purpose isn't to promote socialism over capitalism as a political philosophy, but to help educate children by giving them a tool to become well educated enough to be a capable worker and participate in world congress, rather than continuing on as they've been doing.

      This is similar to public schools. Public schools are justified here in the us by noting that while capitalistically, only the child or parent should pay for the child's schooling, having an educated workforce (and something better than completely uneducated morons surrounding you) is a benefit to everyone.

      Public roads come from tax dollars you pay, regardless of whether YOU will use a particular road or not. Per strict Capitalism, all roads should be toll roads. Still, whether you use a road or not, it benefits you to have the server at your favorite restaurant able to get there to serve you.

      The US isn't purely capitalistic, nor should it be. The US is about 1 thing: promoting the good of the majority of the people of the US above all else, with a hamstrung government unable to act seriously against its people (consider why we split off from England / exist as a country). While too often it doesn't work that way these days, the government is supposed to be FOR THE PEOPLE. Not for Capitalism and not for Socialism. We are largely Capitalistic, and should be, because it allows us to enjoy the fruit of our own labor. Not all things are best handled this way though. It's better to have a single army, than to have all 50 states privately contract out defense squads as needed.

      We recognize that libraries, while socialistic in nature serve a useful purpose.

      OLPC isn't about undermining the idea that people should work for what they want, and that the best idea should win through competition (which we've seen doesn't always work that way in the US, due to patent / lawsuit craziness). OLPC is meant to take groups of people too far down to join into the global market, building them up to be capable of taking their part in it. The strict Capatilistic thing to do is to loan them $, forclose on their land and kick them off to die pennilessly. Welfare was meant as a hand up, not a hand out.

      Essentially, OLPC is a good idea. It may or may not be the idea needed at the moment by the countries it's going to, but if it works as it's supposed to it will increase the number of players in the global market. For the most part these PCs aren't being just "given" away either. The government of whatever country they are for is buying them, just like they would schoolbooks. Do you disagree with desktop computers in our schools? I'm not sure, but I expect when the child graduates, these PCs are expected to be returned to the school to be sent home with the next child. Since these are still government bought (like Uncle Sam buying jets to keep you safe on your behalf) I'd say this is no more / less Socialistic than our military. Let's also consider that this isn't robbing Gateway of any laptop sales. The people who will be using these PCs are not in a position where they could buy a laptop.

      If for no other reason, OLPC deserves a nod for promoting R&D. The current computer industry scoffs as efficiency (or at least the major OS market) preferring to use raw computing power as the answer to everything. In a working Capitalistic system, OSes would be FORCED to compete on efficiency. That this isn't happening suggests we don't have a PROPERLY WORKING Capitalistic system applying to the OS market. Increasing Internet speeds and Google's ambitions will probably eventually remedy this, but having a system built on efficiency out there is a step in the right direction for promoting Capitalism / competition.

      Socialism isn't inherently evil, but left unchecked doesn't work well. The same can be said about Capitalism, which taken to an extreme isn't much better. Socialism and Capitalism don't exist in a vacuum, they're two ends of a scale, and while it seems to pay off to favor the Capitalism side, goi

  11. Re:How do you get one of these? by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Correction: One is donated, if, and only if at least 5,000 people sign up for the deal.

    Without any other committing statements contradicting this, I take it to mean that if 3,000 people sign up, they'll send out 3,000 very overpriced XO's to those who order, and the poor kids get no machines.

    And no mention about who is going to pay for the infrastructure needed for the machines either, if they reach the 5,000 goal. Not only do they need a support apparatus, but the machines themselves need electricity (the crank never came out, and the other battery charging implements are still not in production, if they ever will be) and Internet (the applications on the XO are leased and have to be renewed over Internet every so often). Just handing out machines like it was bread won't do people any good.

  12. Re:first post by MyLongNickName · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps. But basic editing means you explain what acronyms are unless you are 100% confident you audience knows the term. Granted, I bet 90% of us do. But even when I first saw it, it did not jump to mind. It took a second or to.

    I know that Slashdot prides itself on not filtering user submissions. But as long as Slashdot refers to its... its... ermmmm... people who hit the approve button as editors, they should be held to editorial standards.

    --
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  13. Re:The $175 Laptop by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is intended to be down to $100 by 2008. For the record, some casual browsing turned up a brand new AMD powered Compaq for only $400. I bet by 2008, we'll be down to $350 or $300. Of course, you can find your fill of used laptops on eBay for $100 that offer several multiples of the performance of the OLPC. But I guess it's about the widgety kid-tailored interface.
    Somehow, I suspect by the time OLPC manages to research its way into a $100 laptop for kids, the majors will be beating down the doors with the same product. Oh, well. Best of luck to 'em anyway.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  14. Re:One ? per child? by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To me, sounds like they just went with tech-jargon-BS and said that the computer is the best way to move to a better education.

    I must of missed it, can you show me where they say a computer is the best way to improve education?

    If all the money they spent, and want to spend, on 3rd-world education went to just.. um... BOOKS, then they would have probably accomplished twice their goal by now.

    Text books in the Third World are expensive, especially when they have to be replace yearly do to editing of corrections and updating them. With a net connection an e-book on a laptop these can easily, quickly, and cheaply. A child have even be able to carry a number of e-books on one XO, then when they finish one class the text used can be placed with new text. Then you can have not just one BOOK but a bunch of BOOKS.

    Falcon
  15. the lesson is: you probably don't need a laptop. by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Notebooks break, they get lost, and they are replaced frequently, so the cheaper, the better.

    No. The more reason to drop the laptop fetish. Laptops absolutely have their appropriate uses- but desktops work just fine for a huge percentage of people. Their components are cheaper, more easily replaced, and usually superior in performance. Nevermind that forcing you to sit in front of the computer, as opposed to being available to you in bed, on your couch, on your porch, etc- means you're more prone to wasting more time on the internet.

    Yet...very few people I know will even consider a desktop. It drives me insane in business settings- I can do all manner of repairs and data recovery very, very easily on a desktop. Laptops are a total mixed bag ranging from "the company will have a tech here tomorrow morning" to "ARRRRG its going to take an hour to get the damn thing apart."

    Thinkpads and Dells are the best, from my experience; HP sells a lot of consumer-ish crap. Apple gets a failing grade in almost every regard; iBooks, Powerbooks, and Macbook Pros are MISERABLE to disassemble for hard drive replacement. iBooks require damn near COMPLETE disassembly to get to the drive. The only plus is firewire target disk mode, but that is near useless in case of hardware failure.

  16. Going to a conference by Daishiman · · Score: 2, Informative

    My local LUG is having a large conference tomorrow, where one of the highlights is an introduction to programming on the OLPC.

    At least in Argentina, where a deployment is being scheduled, the entire Free Software community has the hots for this. Whether it succeeds or not as en educational tool, it's pioneering a new paradigm of computing; the truly small, truly cheap, truly rugged laptop.

  17. Re:first post by laparel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a pretty safe assumption that all of slashdot readers know what OLPC means. This is after all news site for geeks at heart and it's not the 1st time we've heard about it here. If you fail to understand it, just read the article is that too much to ask?

    If I want RIAA, ISP, RAM, OLPC, etc. to be spelled out for me I'd go read news sites geared toward the general public.

  18. OLPC system images by snark23 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's something that might interest those who are thinking about the $400 two-fer, but want to play with XO first...

    You can emulate most of it with qemu or vmware. It's easy.

        See: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Quick_Start

    Seemed a pretty sluggish on my wimpy Core Duo 1.66, but lots of that may be due to a lack of hardware accelerated video in qemu.

    Anyhow, check it out. Good times.

    (It does seem odd to use Python as the primary language on a slow CPU with little memory, but it seems to work okay...)

  19. Re:Power & display by spuzzzzzzz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Laser printers print at 600dpi and above, but you don't need a magnifying glass to read the output. The point is that the size of a character on-screen should not depend on the dpi of the display. If the GUI is properly designed, the fonts will be large enough and the high pixel density will allow the fonts to be smoother.

    --

    Don't you hate meta-sigs?
  20. Bull by MikShapi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I call bullshit.

    First, if you go about recommending peoeple build their game rigs around macs, I hope they have the sense to tell you you're talking shit. Video editing - maybe, and picassa looks exactly the same on windows and mac, which is what most people nowadays are happy to use rather than face Photoshop's steep learning-curve and/or price.

    Second, I too am a sysadmin, and I too use my lappie for things that can be done by a 700MHz P3 like RDP and SSH.

    HOWEVER, and this is where you're off the mark by a mile, the big difference between a P3 and the L7500 Core2Duo I'm writing this on now is the fact that the latter consumes WAY LESS power, and offers me insane (by P3 standards) battery life (Thinkpad X60t, before you ask).

    Your computer needs don't sum up with the CPU&GPU either. Last year I was laptopless and cashless for a while, and borrowed a Dell lappie from work for several months. Let me tell you something. You won't get work done on 800x600, and my recent move to an SXGA+ (1400*1050) screen DID make a hell of a lot of difference in my ability to get shit done. These won't come standard on Asus EeePC, nor will you find them on entry-level laptop machines.

    You're right in that CPU SPEED is not a factor. You're wrong that for someone who wants to do non-CPU-intensive stuff like office work or internet browsing needs the dirt-cheapest lappie he can find. His parameters are different, yes, but they're not non-existent.

    And I haven't even mentioned a word about *carrying* (for those that actually take their machine with them) around a frigging battle cruiser, which is what cheap typically amounts to.

    --
    -
  21. Serious question: by larry+bagina · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why are they using x86? ARM or SHx are both much more power efficient, work with linux (and get more done per clock cycle). Did AMD give them a good deal on low end chips they couldn't get rid of?

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:Serious question: by evilviper · · Score: 3, Informative

      ARM or SHx are both much more power efficient, work with linux (and get more done per clock cycle)

      NO, YES, and NO respectively.

      ARM and SH are both very low power, but that is entirely at the expense of performance. A good trade-off for embedded systems that don't need much processing power, but certainly not for multimedia applications. As soon as you start trying to do floating point calculations, watch your ARM/SH CPU grind to a halt. They certainly do less per clock than even older x86 CPUs, and are a long way behind fairly modern x86 CPUs like the Geode. That goes double for Intel's clock-inflated XScale CPUs, pushing 1GHz.

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    2. Re:Serious question: by pslam · · Score: 2, Informative

      ARM and SH are both very low power, but that is entirely at the expense of performance. A good trade-off for embedded systems that don't need much processing power, but certainly not for multimedia applications. As soon as you start trying to do floating point calculations, watch your ARM/SH CPU grind to a halt. They certainly do less per clock than even older x86 CPUs, and are a long way behind fairly modern x86 CPUs like the Geode. That goes double for Intel's clock-inflated XScale CPUs, pushing 1GHz.

      Wrong, wrong and wrong.

      SH isn't much of a performer, but ARM certainly is - especially anything from ARM11 and beyond. The AMD Geode chip in the OLPC is 433MHz and single issue. Pretty much all modern low power ARM chips are at least that clock speed.

      So, compare what they do with that clock speed? If you were to compare general/integer computation between even an old ARM9 and the Geode, an ARM9 will beat it clock-for-clock. Modern desktop x86 chips are only fast because they do a ton of translation from x86 code and shove it down multiple pipelines. Geode only has one execution pipeline.

      We're also talking about a VERY large difference in power consumption per "MIP" here too. From the Geode datasheet, it will be chewing nearly 1W of core power at 433MHz (650mA, 1.45V core). A comparable performance ARM would be more like 250mW-500mW.

      Floating point? We're not in the dark ages any more in the embedded community. For starters: WE DON'T NEED IT. Emulation suffices pretty damn well for every day usage. It's not like Excel requires 8GFLOPS to recalculate 1,000 cells. These machines aren't for games either (and hell, you can do games without an FPU anyway - we managed for decades perfectly well). If you still really, really must waste a big bunch of silicon area to hardware floating point, then there's plenty of solutions out there for ARM which are 1-2 MACs per clock. That'll match the Geode easily. Oh, and also vector stuff should you want that.

      Sorry, but you really aren't giving ARM (and XScale) based stuff enough credit. For the OLPC platform, it would have been ideal, and would have performed equally well if not better. I suspect the real reason they chose AMD was fear of a non-x86 platform and not "fitness for purpose" at all.

  22. very few people DO any of that whizbang stuff by victorvodka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most people use the web, send email, and word process. I know it's common in Slashdot to talk about your week-long 3D rendering sessions, but the number of people who do that is extremely small. Seriously, I spent some years visiting houses and fixing computers and maybe one person in all those people did stuff with video. I told him to upgrade his RAM from 256 to 512. The point is that one of these basic laptops is ideal for what people really do with their computers, and hardware bloat is just as serious as software bloat (because it makes irrational demands on batteries and heat disposal). Hell, 99% of what I do with a PC can be done on an OLPC. On a related note, Vista was created mostly to give Americans a distorted picture of the hardware they needed to live out their pathetic computational lives, lives that would be satisfied on a Pentium MMX running Windows 98.

    --

    The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg

  23. Re:But they aren't $100 genius by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I figured that the lesson learned from the $100 laptop was how to get other of people to pay for your commercial R&D while praising you for being a humanitarian by claiming that your product will be much cheaper than is realistic, claiming that you are doing if for charity, and maybe selling a few thousand at cost when you get it far enough along to be manufactured.

    This project is a scam. If the goal is to teach kids about computers, there are much cheaper, and far more durable ways to do it. I can't find it know, but when the "$100" PC was first announced, I went out and priced what it would cost to build a PC based around a C64 as a core, and I could get the parts RETAIL in single unit prices for ~$90. The only thing that was not included was the wireless networking, but it did include the hand crank, as the DTV (C64) runs off of 4 AA batteries. It shouldn't be that hard to generate 6 volts with a hand crank.

  24. Re:Maybe they should have patented it all by White+Flame · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see a flaw in your plans: Patents don't actually bring in money.

  25. How stupid can people here be? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have now seen a load of comments along the lines of "you can get a cheap Walmart laptop for $400" and it's so much better.

    No, it is not better. It does have more RAM, a faster CPU and a larger disk. However, it does not have a 24 hour battery life, the ability to run without a mains supply, a rugged design that will allow it to last a long time in a tough environment or a screen which will work in direct sunlight. It also doesn't generare oits of heat, so it doesn't need one of those awful laptop CPU fans which are so unreliable on low end machines.

    So yeah, you get lower speed specs, but you get other much higher specs instead. And it's still 1/4 of the price or 1/3 or whatever the price ends up being.

    So, no that $400 Dell is not even nearly equivalent. Come to think of it that $4000 Dell isn't equivalent either. Something with that portability, ruggedness and battery life would be vastly more useful to a lot of people than a high end, high power, fragile and very expensive computer.

    Remember, a computer is more than just the CPU speed.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  26. Re:File the OLPC as TNBT under old news.. by Redacted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do not get this "apps as services" dream so many have. At all.

    I like being able to write a school report on the bus home at weekends. I like being able to mess with my photos at my parent's rural house which only has dial-up. I like having tens of useful little apps locally, just for when I need them. I like not being beholden to some companies server for access to vital data, and I'm sure many here agree with me - for every program that uses an open standard, 2 more use their own. At least now if Apple stops making Pages, I can export to txt, or docx, or whatever I need to keep working. Some server goes down? Then perhaps I get notice, export to another format. Maybe I can't, or maybe the crash happens at an inopportune time - "Sorry that you need to finish your presentation today, we'll be back up soon"...

    For a look at how people react to software as a service. Apple releases iPhone, all non-standard apps as services. Internet goes crazy, hacks emerge, major sites lambast Apple for screwing customers. And this was a phone! Can you imagine if someone releases a laptop that needs a net connection to ensure basic functionality!

    Finally the bandwidth costs would surely destroy a whole lot of popular non-commercial programs. Think to who promotes this idea at all - big companies like Microsoft, Adobe. They can afford (and charge for) online apps. The GIMP? OpenOffice? How long would donations keep these projects alive if people were constantly streaming data from their sites?

    So, if local applications, with no latency, fast HD access, and true control of my data are "for the left-behinds", then consider me left behind, and happy with it.

  27. e-books by falconwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've seen very few textbooks released in e-book format; most of the ones I have seen were in very specialized subjects and released under the GNU FDL.

    Do you live in the Third World? They are most useful there, however they are used elsewhere. U Penn list more than 25,000 e-books. The University of Texas lists more. Those are just the first 2 results of a Google of e-books "text books", which lists almost 25,000 results. Of the XO ZDNet" has this to say:

    "Assuming this device can survive its harsh environment and continue to function over a period of a half-dozen or more years (still a stretch, in my estimation), a single lightweight (but rugged) device, could easily outlast 100 textbooks in a hot and humid environment. And, by any measure, a $100 laptop equipped with 100 electronic textbooks could be worth its weight in gold in such a third-world setting."

    Falcon
  28. Simple hardware can do lots of stuff. by aliquis · · Score: 2, Informative

    I love this video for how good it shows how little has actually changed:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cxbstn2IZM

    Sure that one doesn't cover web usage, but without stupid Flash it would probably do decent in that area aswell.. Some more ram usage and so on is ok but the current rate and state are ridiculous.

    I've used claris works on mac classics and LC IIs myself and I prefered it to works on win 3.11 on the 386s, and for most peoples use it would be sufficient today aswell..

  29. Re:dude, shift your paradigms by MikShapi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ah, intelligent debate. Beautiful.

    The mac mafia can blow me. There's things that macs do well, and there's things that they don't. PC's can edit video too. We say macs are preferable because it is nicer to do on a mac. And just like you can run photoshop or premiere on a PC, you can run some games on a mac. If you go through more than two games in a year, however, and don't want to be specifically choosing them off a somewhat narrow mac compatibility list, XP is the 99.9% compatible platforms for games, macs (maybe) coming in as a distant second. Recommending a mac for gaming is bad religion-driven advice, aimed to cynically use your "geek" status to bolster the ranks of your religion rather than do good to whoever is being advised.

    Now, back to the topic:
    1. I *import and resell* miniITX and nanoITX kit. You're preaching to the quire. I know damn well what a supposedly "underpowered" box can do, be you running gentoo, OpenBSD, or even woe and behold, Vista.

    2. UMPC's are still immature, especially and specifically the sub-400$ ones. I'm VERY MUCH looking to some ultracheap yet seriously expandable platforms and reasonably powered (a 1GHz C7 or an 800MHz dothan is VERY reasonable).

    Thing is, one can get VERY cheap biggest and fastest:
    [a] CF cards
    [b] miniPCI wireless cards
    [c] SODIMM RAM any size you care to want
    [d] miniPCI Wireless cellular cards
    on ebay.

    I want UMPCs where you can plug a mountain of the above, plus a USIM.

    Now, to my point:
    I claim this is a FASLE STATEMENT: If average joe doesn't need power [gaming/video/other-crunching], one such UMPC is all he needs.
    NOT the reasoning: because it has too little CPU/RAM/Disk (most can be upgraded most of the time anyway if he REALLY wants Vista)
    The reasoning:
    [a] Joe may not want to have a desktop monitor, may want to stay productive on the go, and may still want a humane resolution to be looking at. That spells bye-bye 8'' screen, bye-bye UMPC pricetag, aka bye-bye UMPC, enter 12'' ultraportables and bigger which spell what-we-already-have, and if you want SERIOUS resolution (Thinkpad X6* Tablet or Toshiba M200 do SXGA+), you have to cough up some serious dough.

    Moral: SCREENS COST BIG MONEY, and are pro'lly the BIG influence behind the price drop from ultraportables to UMPCs.

    [b] Joe may not want a one hour battery. Small UMPC form factor is nice and cute, but the power consumption of that redesigned-into-a-laptop miniITX or Intel rig is the same as what the bigger ultraportables (or bigger bricks) have. So you have to fit a battery, sized for bigger laptops, on this little thingamajig, to get reasonable off-the-grid time. They don't do that. They give you a smaller battery which lasts less. Joe may not want that.

    [c] ... Multiple connectivity (without USB spaghetti hanging out of your machine?) Dual miniPCI slots? Do =400$ boxes have these?

    When is the UMPC/"underpowered"-rig enough?
    1. When used as a DTR, in conjunction with external substitutes for everything it lacks (USB, monitors..)
    2. When used somewhere where resolution and battery are not a factor (Mediacenter PC can do just fine with 800x600. CarPC can do ok with 640x480).
    3. When used to run samba, asterisk and rtorrent at home, or maybe pfSense, and all you need (^H^H^H^Hwant) is a console.

    My Point: There's more offered by "Overpowered-coal-driven-battle-cruiser" laptops than what UMPCs can provide on more fronts than one, too many to make a one-size-fits-all proclamation that they're all Joe needs. That's a falsity. Circumstantially, it can sometimes be right, but it's not anywhere near a generic recommendation.

    As always pending a recommendation, It can't be professionally answered without asking what the user actually needs, and that varies.

    --
    -
  30. Re:Maybe they should have patented it all by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Their actual plan is almost the exact opposite of this. By making all of the source code and designs available under a permissive license, they hope other people will start building them. If your country getting good use out of OLPC units? Build a factory to produce any new ones you need, employ local people, and get a workforce that's trained in laptop assembly, educational software development, and so on.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  31. Re:first post by g0at · · Score: 3, Funny

    But basic editing means [...] It took a second or to.

    Right.

    -b

  32. Re:dude, shift your paradigms by DingerX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    (I was GP, but switched to my coal-burner)

    Yes: I agree that, if Joe Phishbait's going to have a computer he calls "home", it ain't gonna be some dinky thing with a tiny screen and a clumsy input device.

    And, you are right that the current class of UMPCs suffers from poor design choices: they certainly sacrifice the wrong things, and leave other things the same. Putting a smaller battery in it may make a UMPC smaller and lighter, but it reduces its mobility. Using an operating system optimized for driving multiple screens and having multiple windows open at the same time, with lots of pretty animations and effects and a huge memory footprint, may not be the best choice for a handheld device.

    But those are two separate issues. Whoever started this is absolutely wrong about the utility of a super-cheap super-portable, insofar as it can replace a "base computer". But, on the other hand, he's right that they can do a lot of the basic tasks, and add portability to the mix. And, for most people, they will fill a need. You know, like a computer in the kitchen.

    However, I think you've lost the pack with your need for expandibility. Joe ain't following you there. As you point out, we need to consider the purpose before we select the device. The form of a house is not bricks and wood arranged in a certain manner, but the purpose of providing protection from the elements. Likewise, if you design an UMPC as a low-power CPU, some memory, and a miniPCI-slots stuck inside a small box, you'll end up with today's crop of $1000 one-hour wonders.

    The paradigm shift I'm seeing is that we're seeing a new use for computers emerging. Originally, computers were described as a "Lean-forward" system -- games, editing, word processing, whatever, you sat in an upright chair, and leaned in, actively engaged in the thing. Then, with the increase in power, we saw "Lean-back" uses: television (now streaming video), music, and so on. People can sit on couches now, and we're seeing PCs being hooked directly to televisions and running through them. The networking builds up and we see WLANs, mediaservers, and all kinds of cool stuff being used by everybody. But effectively, the same PC can serve as a both a "Lean-forward" and "Lean-back" device: just put a couch behind that office chair. The emergent use I'm seeing gets rid of all this "lean" nonsense altogether: it's the computer you use when you're doing a task that doesn't require constant or intensive interaction with the computer. And many people use their computers this way.

    Having the internet on the conference table (among a pile of papers) for easy consultation of reference sources is a tremendous time saver. Need to look something up? grab the tablet and do it. Want to show it to someone else? Pass it around. Want to talk for hours to loved ones in a different country? put the thing in your pocket and go. Out hiking and curious what's over that ridge? bring up the satellite pictures and take a look for yourself. Need to write down detailed notes/instructions in a remote location? unfold the keyboard and go.

    In theory, the by the (now $300 with memory cards) n800 can do these things, and if the thing fully worked in practice (aka, if it were not "immature"), it would serve these uses better than a $1000 UMPC or laptop. Battery life largely depends on how long you power the screen: with the screen running, it gives you about four hours (still too short, give me a bigger battery, dammit).

    So these devices aren't working yet, and the price is still too high, but when they work, and when they cost around $200 (maybe a third-generation Eee, or a fourth-generation n770, or whatever MontaVista cooks up), they're gonna take up a place alongside desktop and laptop PCs.

    But you knew that already.

  33. Re:dude, shift your paradigms by DingerX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, unless it's a reference to the quire (from the Latin quaternion, originally referring to a gathering of four bifolia, as apposed to a quinternion with five or sexternion with six, now taken by synechdoche to refer to any single gathering of pages; cf. the French cahier) the priest has in front of him, containing his sermon. In that case, I wouldn't be addressing a friendly audience, but rather replying to his post with the substance of his post.

    Of course, "preaching to the choir" is the cliche', while "preaching to the quire" would be a novel usage. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Come to think of it, I'm gonna steal "preaching to the quire" for an article on the relationship between oral and written sermons in the XIVth century. Thanks again!

  34. BitFrost by lord_sarpedon · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm surprised it hasn't come up yet.

    BitFrost (see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Bitfrost) is the set of security mechanisms present in the OLPC.

    Though I certainly wouldn't care to summarize the entire thing, here's what it comes down to.

    User programs don't automatically get the running user's full rights. A calculator has no reason to delete your documents, so why should it be able to? And without your knowledge to boot. On the OLPCs, documents are kept in a special storage area. It isn't a matter of owner read access. In general, for a program to get a user's file poofed in to its chroot sandbox, it has to ask the document service (which presents a consistent dialog). Further, a text editor doesn't need to access the network. The user can access the network, but his or her programs can only do so if explicitly allowed to (various such rights are set at install time, configurable later). Certain combinations of program rights are disallowed at install time (such as both network access and webcam access) but can be enabled later. Plus a lot more.

    Sudo/UAC sound nice and all until you realize that programs and users are separate entities.

    Yes, there's a lot to learn from the OLPC project. It's designed to be used (safely) by computer-illiterate children who can't (or can scarcely) read. If you think that sounds like a good description of computer users in general, then you're absolutely right. Security as seen in *nix and Windows makes perfect sense for protecting users from each other. That was the goal back in the day. The people with access to a server were supposed to have a general idea of what they were doing (entirely on them if they didn't), and in that case *nix security works well. But computers have gotten more personal, and that assumption is now blatantly false. Anyone thinkng that Windows security problems stop at buffer overflows, or that Linux on the desktop will change anything, is a fool.

    --
    "Strangers have the best candy" -Me
  35. you can just contribute $200 and defer taking one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    $200 buys a kid one -- see laptop.org. Pretty nice gesture IMHO. Personally I've already got a laptop so if I was gonna spend another $200, instead of getting myself one, I'd just buy one for an additional child.

    Any implication that the OLTP gang would just cluelessly hand out the laptops where there are cultural, infrastructure, or other impediments to their good use is, well, clueless. The OLTP folks are far more versed in the realities in the field, in each country that will get laptops, than some arm-chair critic. This is true of most NGOs. They work with locals, and they know what's going on, and they know how to get the best possible results under the circumstances. They care. People who don't care don't go to work for them, because the NGOs count on that caring to get workers who will settle for lower pay than their skill set would command working for industry. This frees up money to apply to their cause which -- guess what? -- they really care about.

    It's interesting how people project their own lack of understanding onto others. I see this all the time, especially when I compare the depth of understanding that functionaries in the government of the USA have with the amateurs who criticize policy. Policy is sometimes a step in the wrong direction and the peanut gallery is occasionally correct, but generally the professionals have a perspective that's a thousand times deeper than the I-read-it-in-the-newspaper crowd. Compare the understanding of computers that a professional programmer or net admin has with that of the average user; now admit that the same spread of understanding exists in every other field too. Yeah, even in climate science! :)