Googlestalking For Covert NSA Research Funding

James Hardine writes "Wikileaks is reporting that the CIA has funded covert research on torture techniques, and that the NSA has pushed tens or hundreds of millions into academia through research grants using one particular grant code. Some researchers try to conceal the source of funding, yet commonality in the NSA grant code prefix makes all these attempts transparent. The primary NSA grant-code prefix is 'MDA904'. Googling for this grant code yields 39,000 references although some refer to non-academic contracts (scolar.google.com 2,300). The grants issue from light NSA cover, the "Maryland Procurement Office" or other fronts. From this one can see the broad sweep of academic research interests being driven by the NSA."

Comments

Capture it now, before its disappeared

[shanen]

If this is an accurate report, then they're probably scrubbing the Google indexes even as we speak. Also following up on the original documents to remove the references.

And *NO*, I do *NOT* want to hop over there and waste my time doing meta-moderation!

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[shanen]

Wow and whoopie. I think I got a first post. Does that mean the tooth fairy will leave karma points under my pillow?

Anyway, I forgot to note that it is possible that the information society will cut both ways, not only against us, but also against the governments that want to abuse us. The most interesting example right now is actually in Myanmar, where the junta is apparently having additional problems with information leakage about the latest crackdowns.

I'm not sure how the NSA link was leaked. You'd think they should be more competent than to 'sign' so much of their work. However, in the future it will become even harder for them to hide their tracks. Query tools are advancing very rapidly, and the amount of data to be queried is increasing even more quickly...

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[cindysthongs]

Next on Google - ModerationSense and clicks per moderator!

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[debilo]

Wow and whoopie. I think I got a first post. Does that mean the tooth fairy will leave karma points under my pillow?

Come on, buddy. The tooth fairy is female, and you're a Slashdotter. Draw your own conclusions.

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean Burma right?

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[mi]

... not only against us, but also against the governments that want to abuse us.

Abuse us by funding research on the subjects of:

• Duality for modules over finite rings and applications to coding theory
• Bounding the number of geometric permutations induced by k-transversals
• A unified framework for enforcing multiple access control policies
• Affine Lie algebras and multisum identities

?

You sure do sound abused, kid. But not by (this) government...

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[shanen]

Actually, you have me over an amusing barrel there. In one of those cases, I actually know how it can be used to abuse *YOU*. However, I cannot talk about it.

All I can say is that your lack of understanding or imagination is *NOT* going to protect you if such an agency actually existed...

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[mi]

I actually know how it can be used to abuse *YOU*.

All of it can. By breaking up the encryption believed to be secure, NSA can wreck havoc in today's world of information. I — unlike you, who believes, that government funding automatically taints any research (except on the subject of global warming, and even then it better come up with the right answer) — just happened to trust my government a notch more than enemies.

In your world, of course, there are no enemies — only friends, whose grievances we failed to address so far. And since there are no enemies, the only application of the government can be against you... See, I know your side too.

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[Antique Geekmeister]

With his luck, she won't have change for a 20 and make him write 79 more attempts at a first post.

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[shanen]

Really? You think you understand my position? They why is your presentation of it such a load of cr@p? I suppose that it depends on what sort of word games you want to play with "enemies", eh? It can't possibly be the case that you are so intellectually dishonest that you want to construct a straw man argument to set on fire.

In reality, and not just my reality, there are plenty of cases where different people have irresolvable conflicts of interests. The question is whether those conflicts can be mediated intelligently (with or without government assistance) or whether the only decision point is when one side finishes ripping the lungs out of the other. Animals don't get to think about such options. The faster deer doesn't worry about the one that got left behind, and the lion doesn't worry about the hyenas chased away from their kill. However, I do imagine that we are somewhat better than animals, and that we can even manage to continue evolving without dedicating our best efforts to being more vicious and bestial than the mindless beasts. If we don't learn to live together, then we shall surely die together. Technology itself is morally neutral on the question.

The jury is still out on the question. The long-term trends over the last few thousand years seem to agree with me, but that's not long enough. Maybe the real answer to the Fermi Paradox is that we will (and must) soon exterminate ourselves.

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[Lost Penguin]

She will take the change out of his remaining teeth; no Novocaine... /Now that works for torture, Your screams actually hurt your own ears... //It's a real relief for your ears when they apply the composite to the hole in your teeth.(Lake Mary 1988) ///I'm from Florida, torture is old news here since Milton, Fl 1985... ////For the record, it started there with some armed robbers who did time and later found (and killed/tortured) the witness(s) against them... /////In a parade, on a float, in public. (For some reason, no one else will testify...)

Re:Capture it now, before its disappeared

[Anonymous Coward]

In one of those cases, I actually know how it can be used to abuse *YOU*. However, I cannot talk about it.

Are you allowed to say that? :)

Seriously, though, even if one of those subjects is somehow something that NSA could use to spy on people better or whatever it is, then I still don't quite see the problem. This research is being conducted in public, and anyone can benefit from the results. It's going to be done anyway - if not by NSA, then by the Russian and Chinese spy agencies - so surely it's better to have it done by Americans as well, and if it's going to be done by Americans, then surely it's better to have it done in public and the results published?

I guess I just don't see how it's bad that NSA is funding scientists to do research, given that we all benefit.

What's the Story here??

[Anonymous Coward]

That you can google for practically anthing and find it on the Internet? That the NSA pours money into research? This isn't news at all.

This is just a veiled attempt at provoking more flamewars because it's got NSA, torture and google, hence this is a flamebait story.

Re:What's the Story here??

[mbkennel]

The actual story is that the traditional source for engineering funding, DARPA, has been ordered to change to short term projects, as in "a widget for a soldier in 18 months."

That is not what academics do, it is what private sector contractors do.

Hence the academics have been overwhelming the National Science Foundation since 2001 or so. Acceptance rates for NSF research proposals are at all time lows. If the NSA also gives money for mathematics and certain segments of computer science, apparently all publicly published, why not take it?

It has been usual since 1945 that source for non-biological scientific and mathematical research have come through multiple government agencies, many military-affiliated.

What happens if you don't accept this funding? Somebody else gets it, and they get papers and grants and they stay funded. You don't. You probably won't get promotions or tenure without signficant government funding. If you're on soft money, you're just plain unemployed.

What will your protest do to stop torture by CIA or whoever? Nothing. BTW those policies didn't come spontaneously from CIA---they were ordered and approved by political appointees.

BTW: "MDA" usually means "Missile Defense Agency".

Re:What's the Story here??

[Copid]

The actual story is that the traditional source for engineering funding, DARPA, has been ordered to change to short term projects, as in "a widget for a soldier in 18 months."

That is not what academics do, it is what private sector contractors do.

It's even worse than that. I work for one of those private contractors, and we've been asked three times in the past three years by one of our government's fine agencies if we can produce X in 6 months. We tell them, "No, we can do it, but we'll need 12-16 months." Every time, they come back with the same proposal. Every time, they say, "We're in a hurry because we're up a creek because we didn't get this done earlier." Every time, we tell them we can do it in 12-16 months. Every time, I'm blown away by the fact that the same government that put us on the moon and has run projects from the atomic bomb to stealth bombers can't get its shit together long enough to realize that if they'd simply agreed to the delay, the project they're asking for would have been finished and deployed years ago.

These are the people who are "keeping us safe" from terrorists. God help us.

Re:What's the Story here??

[natedubbya]

Yeah the "article" reads like someone who never realized that the government funds academic research, and just stumbled upon this enlightening nugget of truth. Of course, he's the first to find this out, so it's his duty to inform the world. He's probably also of the opinion that the stem-cell debate is about legalizing stem cell research, not the government funding of it. ...but that's a whole other flame war...or maybe another wiki he'll create :)

The linked papers...

[meringuoid]

... all seem to be about either computer science or number theory.

So. The NSA, whose job it is to create and to crack strong encryption, are interested in computers and in mathematics. Big surprise there, guys.

Re:The linked papers...

[feyhunde]

Oh the Horrors!

Our Cryptography experts in the government are funding papers on Cryptography and mathematical and computer modeling related to it!

And NP! What will our government do with these horrors! The abuse of terrorists in Camp X-ray is mind boggling using papers like "A unified framework for enforcing multiple access control policies" http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=253260.253364&type=series

Re:The linked papers...

[UbuntuDupe]

Doesn't this imply that the NSA, right now, has quantum computers under construction that are attempting to implement Shor's Algorithm for semiprimes greater than 15? And that they have the best (corruptible) cryptographers and physicists working for them?

oid

[epine]

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/index.php?title=On_the_take_and_loving_it&oldid=6476

One would think it would be better for slashdot discussion if TFA was not a moving target. To think slashdot is ten years old. That's one hell of a slow clue train.

Conspiracy?

[nacturation]

Google Scholar search results for "MDA904": about 2300
Google Scholar search results for "NSA Grant": about 1720

Doesn't look like many are trying to hide, especially since anybody familiar with the NSA grant code would already know what MDA904 is.

Re:Conspiracy?

[rabidGoat]

A Google Scholar search for "MDA904 nsa" turns up 1020 hits, many of which include phrases like "NSA grant MDA904-97-C-3055" or "NSA contract MDA904-01-C-0926", the latter of which is from a paper titled "Implementing SELinux as a Linux Security Module". The funding is not covert.

Re:Conspiracy?

[siddesu]

The article itself read like Mel Gibson wrote it like running away from Jean Luc Picard on a tricycle. FTA: "vaguagely haigiographic ", "mathmatics", "not a univeral reality"... Obviously no preview button on that Wiki site.

There is no doubt the NSA and the other spying agencies are using talented researchers, and obviously they would have appeal to many people-- after all it is likely their grants are good, they are researching hard and interesting problems, and there is also the patriotic factor (your gubbermint is not your friend, but the foreign gubbermints are even less your friends). So, it is not a surprise that people go for those grants.

It'd be hard to draw universal moral rules governing such participation. I'd say there is no moral issue if the research is public (as seems to be the case with most of the grants mentioned on the Wikileak). There might be a moral issue if the research is obviously done with the purpose to actively harm people, but it is unlikely such research will be publicized, except by a whistle blower.

All in all, except for clear-cut Dr. Mengele-like cases, I'd say the blame (if any) should be put on the government (which hires NSA and decides their agenda), and the issue should not be the grants, but, rather, the level and quality of oversight the general public has over such organizations, because it is oversight that will contribute more to keeping spy agencies in check, rather than the attitude of the individual researchers.

#Echelon noise: company president, Baghdad thief, nuclear family, water bomb

Re:Conspiracy?

[siddesu]

The article itself read like Mel Gibson wrote it like

Grr... My comment itself reads like Slashdot has no preview buttons...

Re:Conspiracy?

[TubeSteak]

It'd be hard to draw universal moral rules governing such participation. I'd say there is no moral issue if the research is public (as seems to be the case with most of the grants mentioned on the Wikileak). "Public" research can easily become classified if someone with authority decides that they don't want to share the results with the public.

Recall that thesis which layed out (using public sources) all the fiber optic cables in the US? The Government wanted to classify his paper and they went ahead and started scrubbing all those public sources of non-classified information.

They didn't just stop with scrubbing the public fiber optic maps, various agencies were directed to begin pulling all kinds of public, non-classified material off the shelves. And that's how it has been ever since. They're still doing right now.

Re:Conspiracy?

[siddesu]

I know -- I meant public as in open to the public. If it is classified, all bets are off, and it works like any other spy stuff -- all one can really do is either not have a spy agency, or trust an oversight process.

Re:Conspiracy?

[Kadin2048]

Recall that thesis which layed out (using public sources) all the fiber optic cables in the US? The Government wanted to classify his paper and they went ahead and started scrubbing all those public sources of non-classified information. I think it's worth pointing out in the case of the Sean Gorman paper that the author (Gorman) and his institution (George Mason Univ.) didn't protest too hard. They pretty much fell over themselves to voluntarily take all sorts of draconian "security" procedures, because they wanted to get into the good graces of the national security establishment. In fact, Gorman has gone on to become an adviser to various government agencies (through his private firm), and it wouldn't surprise me if the company is supported in large part by the government.

I have a strong suspicion that some of the controversy there was manufactured; both Gorman and GMU got exactly what they wanted out of that whole affair. Gorman launched his career, and GMU is considered a premiere program if you want to get involved with national security: they have a multidisciplinary "Critical Infrastructure Protection" program, a graduate degree in Biodefense, and a long list of former Beltway insiders on faculty. Their institutional culture is worlds apart from what people who are familiar with the big IT campuses might expect. While I'm not saying that the entire thing was scripted ahead of time, they rolled over so fast that it's blindingly obvious where their interests lay.

Re:Conspiracy?

[rtb61]

Not to put a too fine point on it but researches are members of the public. What you are saying, is when you are getting paid you no longer have to maintain individual moral judgement. The big thing is the willingness of those people with the skills who agree to participate in these works. Their absence or morals, their basically amoral and immoral attitude is a requirement.

Of course the obvious problem at the moment is that the best people do in fact refuse to participate in this kind of shite and as a result a large amount of money sucking, worthless, junk science is created. Of course this is still extremely bad for two reasons, one, it is a complete and obscene waste of taxpayer funds and two, it establishes validity for the kind of psychopaths who authorise and try to make use of this work and the cowardly, second rate, quisling slime willing to do the research.

Re:Conspiracy?

[siddesu]

what i am saying is that tfa implies working for the government is morally wrong, or at least it read so to me. working for the government is not always morally wrong, and in some areas -- e.g. fundamental research -- it may not be immediately obvious if the research is used for good or bad.

in a democratic society the burden is on the general public to oversee what the government is doing via whatever political tools are available. the individual researchers can complement that function, but not be a substitute of it. besides, individual moral stances differ. some are wider :)

Re:Conspiracy?

[PitaBred]

Isn't the past tense of reads "read"? It may be just me, but your typo still seems to make grammatical sense.

Warnung!: Conspiracy theory

[meburke]

Actually, the googled links are a plant to test software that helps the NSA determine who is interested in it's activities, and the grant code is a key to tracing the CPU runningthe browser that is doing the googling.

Re:Warnung!: Conspiracy theory

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Warnung a combo of Warning and Achtung? I suppose that means listen to the warning, eh?

Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[thesandbender]

A sampling of some of these terrible, horrendous projects:

Duality for modules over finite rings and applications to coding theory

Bounding the number of geometric permutations induced by k-transversals

A unified framework for enforcing multiple access control policies

Affine Lie algebras and multisum identities

I think these only qualify as torture if you're a math or computer science graduate student.

The NSA is not a "hands on" group... they are signal intelligence. The bulk of these grants appear to be for exactly that, signal intelligence. I'm sure a few of them may have some mysterious/questionable motives but the bulk of them are nerds working on computers trying to break ciphers or improve our own.

The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP number

[vinsci]

Click the History tab of the article. This reveals the edit history:

# (cur) (last) 20:56, 7 October 2007 1.0.22.53 (Talk) (7,349 bytes)
# (cur) (last) 19:22, 3 October 2007 Wikileaks (Talk | contribs) m (6,644 bytes)
# (cur) (last) 15:18, 29 September 2007 Wikileaks (Talk | contribs) m (6,624 bytes)

Running whois on the IP number 1.0.22.53 comes up with nothing, it's just a reserved net block, according to IANA. So, who could that be? Who's got the power to get anonymous IP number blocks?

$ whois 1.0.22.53

OrgName: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
OrgID: IANA
Address: 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
City: Marina del Rey
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 90292-6695
Country: US

NetRange: 1.0.0.0 - 1.255.255.255
CIDR: 1.0.0.0/8
NetName: RESERVED-9
NetHandle: NET-1-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: IANA Reserved
Comment:
RegDate:
Updated: 2002-09-12

OrgAbuseHandle: IANA-IP-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Number
OrgAbusePhone: +1-310-301-5820
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@iana.org

OrgTecHandle: IANA-IP-ARIN
OrgTechName: Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Number
OrgTechPhone: +1-310-301-5820
OrgTechEmail: abuse@iana.org

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2007-10-06 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

Tagline

[Jane Q. Public]

Hmmmm... it is arguable that the spelling should be "humusly". Either way works.

In Soviet Russia...

[trickyrickb]

Covert NSA Research Googlestalks YOU!

Don't lefties call for more govt research funds

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't want to lose our competitive waterboarding advantage to Latin America or Asia.

Gnomes!

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Allege misconduct, preferably on Slashdot
2. ???
3. Profit!

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[cindysthongs]

RTFA is not a requisite for comprehension The answer is choice

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[larry bagina]

I have the power:

# ifconfig eth0:0 1.0.22.53 netmask 255.255.255.0

Check "Recent changes"

[RandomPrecision]

Much of the article was just written a few minutes ago, and it's still being changed right now, by the same IP address.

Isn't that a bit quick for an article to get /.ed?

Highest paid professors

[dattaway]

Now I know why the psychology professors are the highest paid at state universities.

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[vinsci]

Good luck with getting that routed over the public internet.

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[Anonymous Coward]

Faked? Presumably someone with root access to the Wiki server could spoof an IP address.

It's not like the spooks to be so... spooky. Being professionals, they surely would not be so obvious!

I googled it, It's on sale!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Buy MDA904, In Stock & on sale for $11.96"

Re:I googled it, It's on sale!

[mbkennel]

Since the XP-38 came out, the MDA404 just hasn't been in demand.

PS: The sooper-secret NSA encryption algorithm:

strcat("MDA9",itoa( fiscal_year % 100) );

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[Anonymous Coward]

While this is interesting, it likely is not as sinister as you might think. Go ahead and make a (preferably non-graffiti) change to the article yourself - in the edit history, your IP will be recorded as 1.0.22.53. I don't know why - it is what it is.

Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Futurepower(R)]

The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

1) There are U.S. government agencies that exist for the purpose of murdering, torturing, and otherwise breaking the law and showing no respect for the law.

2) Those agencies are secret. U.S. citizens must pay for the agencies, but citizens are not allowed to know what the agencies are doing or even how much they are paying.

3) The secret agencies are not only sometimes lawless, they are allowed to own their own businesses, so that they have money to spend that does not come from the U.S. government. They are therefore financially independent of the U.S. government when it is not convenient to make U.S. citizens pay.

4) Sometimes people in a secret agency of the U.S. government want to do something that, if discovered, would bring imprisonment. In those cases, secret U.S. agencies are allowed to hire other violent secret agencies in other countries, such as Israel's Mossad, to do whatever they want, including killing people.

5) Secret agencies of the U.S. government are allowed to arrange the publication of articles in U.S. media which they know to be dishonest.

Such corruption makes voting and democracy meaningless, since some agencies of the U.S. government follow no elected leader and no law of any country.

The corruption is treason. If you love the U.S. like I do, you will stop the corruption.

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Anonymous Coward]

"The corruption is treason. If you love the U.S. like I do, you will stop the corruption."

But of course you aren't doing shit but posting BS on slashdot with no evidence.

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Anonymous Coward]

Faggot

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Anonymous Coward]

Anger problem. It is interesting how anger and ignorance are seen together.

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[billtouch]

Oh please...

This almost qualifies for the movie, Conspiracy Theory, except Julia Roberts added a sexiness to the movie that nothing in this article or comments could hope to match.

1-5 are true. He knows them to be true but can't prove it because they are so secret. One might ask how he knows it? Because its said by the conspiracy theorists version of Rush Limbaugh.

What I find is funny is that #2 is bad because they use taxpayer money to do the evil, then #3 is bad because they have their own companies to off sex the tax money. Ok.. somone needs to go back to basic logic.

So let's say, we believe all and want to stop the corruption - where will we go? If it is secret, how will you know if it is stopped? But, here lies the heart of all good conspiracy theories: THEY will always be among us - look there goes one now!

Sorry - that was too easy...
Bill

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an example of the astounding ignorance of U.S. government corruption, and the easy rationalization of killing other people.

Re:Here are 5 aspects of the corruption:

[Futurepower(R)]

Someone didn't watch the movies and didn't read the links of the comment below the parent comment.

The Ultimate Evidence for the Conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Now we have it! The first article Google brings up is a Microsoft paper about how "the government can tell exactly how every voter votes in every election" (p.3.) And they even openly admit it themselves!

Re:The Ultimate Evidence for the Conspiracy

[roguegramma]

If you had read what you have googled, you would have found that the paper then proceeds to describe a system which prevents the gov't from knowing every vote in the context of an electronic voting scheme and even goes so far as to suggest that the final tally may be kept private, just the winner is announced. I somehow doubt that they will be able to convince the public that such a system works, but hey, it is math ..

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[thesandbender]

This is not an "anonymous" IP block. It's a Class A block reserved by IANA. For example: 6.x.x.x belongs to Army Information Systems Center - USAISC, Yuma Proving Ground, AZ (NET-YPG-NET) 7.x.x.x belongs Defense Information Systems Agency, VA (NET-DISANET2) and it's not just the government that gets love: 9.x.x.x IBM Corporation, NY (NET-IBM) 12.x.x.x AT&T (NET-ATT) 17.x.x.x Apple Computer Inc., CA (NET-APPLE-WWNET) (And Apple can't be evil right?) It is most definitely being spoofed... although, as others have pointed out... this takes some talent.

Spooks editing on Wikipedia

[vinsci]

Heading over to WikiScanner and searching for edits by the block 1.0.0.0 - 1.255.255.255 reveals that these ghost IP:s are editing the Wikipedia. Rather odd edits:

ip / title / diff / comment / time

1.1.1.227 ICF International [cur] 126207619 2007-04-26 19:14:34
1.1.1.135 RFA Brambleleaf (A81) [cur] 114096896 2007-03-10 17:53:01
1.1.1.127 Tata Young [cur] 118261241 /* Thai teen superstar 1994-1995 */ 2007-03-27 14:15:10
1.2.3.4 User:Kate/lbtest2 [cur] 17115250 testing 2005-01-15 02:58:49

Yes but...

[Orthuberra]

Which agency is in charge of Gundam for the United States?

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[vinsci]

There's a difference between "reserved" and "assigned" IP number blocks. This block is not assigned to anyone.

Damn Straight: plus it's "can't lose" money

[Anonymous Coward]

Either you're spending the money on Evil Intents, in which case you're perfectly happy to take the money, or you're spending it on beneficial research, in which case you're perfectly happy to take the money, lest some evil dude get it.

Everyone wins.

This is kind of a non-story, neh?

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all the NSA does signals intelligence and protection. Covert action, interrogations and whatnot are run by the CIA which is a completely different agency.

Second of all, the NSA has been a major source of funding for mathematical research for years. Modern signals cryptography is linked to a series of thorny math problems and the NSA has been funding research on all sorts of them for at least twenty years.

Heck, I had a summer job on some NSA funded research in the late 1980s. Guess what nefarious project we were working on?

Using measurements of information density (turner entropy) to bulk scan DNA sequences for introns (non expressed loops of DNA that don't contribute to protein production but nonetheless show up in sequences).

Oh, no, send in the ACLU, the NSA was funding research into making DNA sequencing more efficient.

Re:This is kind of a non-story, neh?

[Antique Geekmeister]

Not entirely, I think. The NSA has a long and infamous history of violating its federal mandates, for example monitoring US civilian communications which are the domain of the FBI.

U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Futurepower(R)]

Notice that those who don't want you to see the parent comment have marked it as off topic. However, secret spending of taxpayer money is certainly government corruption. Otherwise, how can citizens have democratic influence and oversight?

The free movie "Zeitgeist" explains the 3 main parts of U.S. government corruption: Zeitgeist (2007).

The Zeitgeist movie is very poor in some places, such as the opening sequences, and excellent in most places.

Part 1 of the Zeitgeist movie gives an example of how people are controlled by myths. Without people who call themselves "Christians", but are actually just suffering from the mental illness called anger, George W. Bush could not have been elected, or stayed in office. The "Christians" have a moral rule, "You will not kill", that they follow only when they please. The "Christians" were easily controlled by Karl Rove, who had George W. Bush say that he is one of them. Belief in myth caused millions of U.S. citizens not to think independently, and allows their anger to be manipulated easily.

Part 2 of the Zeitgeist movie discusses how people who control government use fear to get more control. Laws that required centuries to build are now being thrown away with as little awareness by citizens as can be designed. The Zeitgeist movie uses the bombing of the World Trade Center is used as an example of creating fear to get control. Those who want more information about how corrupters use fear can watch the free 3-Part BBC movie about how those who want corruption gain more control: The Power Of Nightmares: The Rise Of The Politics Of Fear (2004). BBC Article about the movie: The Power of Nightmares. Wikipedia Link: The Power of Nightmares.

Part 3 of the Zeitgeist movie explains briefly how and why the U.S. government is pursuing a policy of hyper-inflation of the dollar now. In fact, a small number of people control U.S. monetary policy.

Zeitgest, the movie, is free and can be downloaded using a BitTorrent client, burned to a CD (a DVD is not necessary), and most modern DVD TV players will play it.

Don't expect emerging consciousness of very difficult subjects like those in the movie Zeitgeist to be free of error. The movie correctly says that "resurrection after 3 days" is part of many ancient myths, with an astrological background. However, the movie also speculates that Jesus Christ may never have existed. That's beside the point. In fact, whether Jesus Christ existed or not, many people in the world thought that the new ideas of someone called Jesus and someone called Paul of Tarsus were an improvement over what they had before. Even many people who do not claim to be part of a religion think that.

Those movies are an excellent and entertaining way to start learning about U.S. government corruption for those who don't know about the corruption, and want to know what is happening and why.

It is difficult for the average person to believe that someone who already has a lot of money would kill others simply because he wants more money. However, people from rich families often grow up believing that it is acceptable for them to kill people to get what they want.

Those who invest in weapons and the manipulatable parts of the oil business, such as Cheney and the Bush family, control the government to get more money and get more power.

I am surprised at how much conflict of interest is allowed in the U.S. government. Why are weapons and oil investors like Cheney and Bush allowed to decide about starting wars in countries that have oil? (Afghanistan may not have oil, but oil investors want to build a pipeline through Afghanistan.)

Now those who control the U.S. and U.K. governments are planning to

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Without people who call themselves "Christians", but are actually just suffering from the mental illness called anger, George W. Bush could not have been elected, or stayed in office.
Actually, Bush also need help from people who call themselves "Democrats", but actually just suffering from the mental illness called envy.
  It is difficult for the average person to believe that someone who already has a lot of money would kill others simply because he wants more money. However, people from rich families often grow up believing that it is acceptable for them to kill people to get what they want.
Right, b/c Al Gore or John Kerry were such paupers. Shine on you crazy diamond. Oh and your link states that US has bombed 24 countries, not invaded, big difference. Also from your link Yugoslavia 1999 where's the oil in Yugoslavia? And don't get me started on the BS links about Depleted Uranium shells being used as carcinogenic bullets, guess what's also a carcinogen? LEAD!. And U238 is an alpha emitter with a radioactive half-life of 4.5 billion years! Which means it is no more radioactive than common granite.

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Attila Dimedici]

Now those who control the U.S. and U.K. governments are planning to start a war with Iran, another oil-rich country. Yeah and the amazing thing, these guys were able to get the President of Iran to declare war against the US and UK so that they can go to war and claim that Iran started it.
In May of 2006, the President of Iran sent a letter to President Bush that contained text almost identical to the text that an early Shiite Muslim leader sent to a neighboring government shortly before launching an attack. Various Islamic Mullahs have pointed to the historical letter as a model of proper Islamic declaration of war (convert or we will destroy you).

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Romancer]

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? The effects of global politics does not follow the headlines or editorials. The things that effect history are usually behind the normal view of the general population. Do you ever notice that the news stories that actually report current events are not only skewed for the local audience but are constantly playing catch up to the events they are reporting. I'm not talking about horrific death scenes that garner readership and human interest stories about individual accomplishments. I'm talking about the events that shape the future of the global arena.

Just to follow one example, and don't go off on it if you can't get the concept, it's an example. The NSA domestic wiretapping program was outed by a newspaper after it had been running for quite a while, what enabled it to be done at all was the crippling of the separation of branches, specifically the judicial and executive branches. There was described in the forming of this country that there should be separate branches and the checks and balances to keep each in compliance with the spirit of the constitution. A complicated task only possible if one viewpoint did not gain power over the checks and balances that were supposed to keep that group in check and stop them from abusing the power that is granted them. The laws are there to support this balance not there to enforce it. They are too complicated and are meant to change with the evolution of the country. Therefore the interpreters are sworn to protect the constitution against those who would (sometimes rightfully) try to alter or reshape the laws and power boundaries set forth in the past.
This fails when the group trying to change the current boundaries spans more than one branch to the point that the bias is uncontested and the changes are made, for better or for worse, without the opposition being able to view and possibly debate the change. Without the checks and balances that were built into the system, it fails to protect the people from these events that go unnoticed unless leaked or discovered by ethically obligated reporters.
The NSA wiretapping program may or may not be against the constitution but unless the debate takes place with people of the opposing viewpoint, with security the same as the promoting group, the system cannot catch it until it's too late to stop any damage it may cause to the underpinnings of this free nation.

Again, the NSA wiretapping issue is just a recently discovered issue but it stands as an example of why the separation of branches and integration of checks and balances were built into our system of government. The architects of our government foresaw that the government they were creating was susceptible to this abuse and by human nature any group with viewpoints and agendas would eventually be comprised of some portion who would look to any means to further their goals. That this has happened in our history and been exposed on occasion seems to be forgotten when the general population is presented with evidence of possible abuse and the opposing viewpoint group calls for investigation. And these are just the ones that are caught and picked up by the people out of the loop.

So to finally address your post about the Iran issue, there are so many suspect issues that have been caught already between the US and other countries, perpetrated by the current government as well as past administrations of both parties, that to take only recent headline summaries into account does an injustice to the factors in play with these public decisions. The facts in context and perspective are even difficult to comprehend and take months to digest by even the current specialists employed by the current administration. And sometimes even they don't expect the outcomes that result from their actions. Unless there is debate between opposing parties instead of personal posturing and generalizations about patriotism or stubbornness, these issues are being decided by one viewpoint, without the checks and balances that were put

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, b/c Al Gore or John Kerry were such paupers.

They're in on it too, or haven't you noticed that in the scrabble to look moderate, not only do almost all the candidates look alike, they all belong to the same clubs and alumni associations and have the same background?

Oh and your link states that US has bombed 24 countries

Ah right, another believer in CIA telekinesis experiments. Of course we were never there, the bombs just magically appeared in those countries.

BS links about Depleted Uranium shells being used as carcinogenic bullets, guess what's also a carcinogen? LEAD!

Lead doesn't shatter and leave dust like DU munitions do. The problem isn't the radiation, it's the fact that Uranium is a heavy metal and therefore toxic in its own right. It can be argued that anybody who finds lead bullets and eats them is entitled to any forthcoming darwin award, are you going to say the same for everyone who breathes?

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Qrlx]

DU is a health for the same reason lead is. Not because of radioactivity, but because it's a heavy metal.

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Lars T.]

Also from your link Yugoslavia 1999 where's the oil in Yugoslavia? According to this map, right east by south-east of Zagreb, and north and north-east of Belgrade.

And don't get me started on the BS links about Depleted Uranium shells being used as carcinogenic bullets, guess what's also a carcinogen? LEAD!. But lead bullets don't disintegrate to fine dust on impact by design.

Re:U.S. government corruption has 3 parts:

[Anonymous Coward]

Just as clarification, lead certainly does shatter and leave dust

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

While this is interesting, it likely is not as sinister as you might think. Go ahead and make a (preferably non-graffiti) change to the article yourself - in the edit history, your IP will be recorded as 1.0.22.53. I don't know why - it is what it is. Probably a bug. Might be nice to get it fixed.

WikiLeaks tunneled?

[vinsci]

The simplest explanation of this could be that, from the server's point of view, the edit is coming through the IP address 1.0.22.5. It could be behind a reverse NAT setup, for example.

More fun:

$ dig wikileaks.org +short
88.80.13.160
$ whois 88.80.13.160
[...]
netname: PRQ-NET-INT
[...]

This is the network of http://prq.se/, the company famous for among other things hosting The Pirate Bay. They also have a tunneling service (info in Swedish only, the company is based in Stockholm, Sweden), so that you can route your traffic through one of their static IP numbers. It appears WikiLeaks could be taking this approach.

Re:WikiLeaks tunneled?

[vinsci]

Hmm, the realatively few edits of the person(s) at 1.0.22.53 talks against the reverse NAT hypothesis. Also, the first such edit was done as recently as 31st July 2007.

Is this strange?

[navtal]

I don't see why this is news...

NSA funding != breach of ethics

[xPsi]

I'm not sure why this is considered controversial. I do personally think it is sort of interesting, but I'm not sure where the "real" story is. It would be like if someone who just discovered the internet posted "did you know that the suffix .org is meant to be for non-profit organizations but in reality anyone can use it?" Shocking! Must be a conspiracy. This strikes me as the same kind of thing. It is a bit of common trivia not generally known by people who don't write research grants. But its not a whistle-blower revelation regarding a large scale breach of ethics. Is it really surprising that academics who get NSA funding want to keep a little quiet about it? I can think of a lot of practical reasons this might be the case. What bugs me is that the article makes it sounds like chagrin is the motivator: they are ashamed of their funding source because academics are suppose to be free thinking anti-establishment types. But I think the reality is much simpler: academics have a spectrum of beliefs like everyone else and moreover are happy to get funding where they can get it. Although I may not agree with everything the NSA does, taking money from them in the form of formal research grants does not constitute a breach of ethics of any kind (as this wikileak thing implies). Besides, a research grant probably created this really cool kids page (its sort of psychotic if you think about it). Another interesting thing is that a huge amount of computing the NSA does has to do with linux-based security issues. Perhaps this whole story is just an NSA cover to get a mildly amusing NSA story on the front pages of slashdot. Come on, Dr. Malda and reveal your true funding sources.

Re:NSA funding != breach of ethics

[enrevanche]

It may not be necessarily controversial when taken on the small scale, but its says a lot about the level to which covert organizations are controlling our lives. That should be controversial. It shows the increasing lack of respect for our society in academia and its independence from both government and industry. This may have always been just a myth, but that does not mean it shouldn't be controversial and up for debate.

What should be controversial is that due the lack of other funding provided by our government, academics have to go to agencies like the NSA to get funded. Our society becomes ever more beholden to the military-industrial complex.

By the way, university selection process has little to do with free thinking. Universities want staff that gets funding and in this they select those who will not challenge authority. Those who will not question these policies.

Re:NSA funding != breach of ethics

[xPsi]

Well stated. I defintely see your point. However, as an academic I take some issue with your last paragraph. In my experience, academics are not much different than everyone else. There is a spectrum of drones and people willing to sell their ideals (and those of others) to get ahead. But there are also plenty of iconoclasts and people with strong ideals. You are correct in that a large part of the selection process hinges on the ability to obtain external funding. But being able to get funding for your work is not mutually exculsive with challenging authority or thinking freely.

Re:NSA funding != breach of ethics

[khallow]

It may not be necessarily controversial when taken on the small scale, but its says a lot about the level to which covert organizations are controlling our lives. That should be controversial. It shows the increasing lack of respect for our society in academia and its independence from both government and industry. This may have always been just a myth, but that does not mean it shouldn't be controversial and up for debate.

No, it doesn't show that. NSA performs a role in US national security. It needs answers to some pretty sophisticated problems. Academics often are the only ones that have the answers. Hence, it pays them.

What should be controversial is that due the lack of other funding provided by our government, academics have to go to agencies like the NSA to get funded. Our society becomes ever more beholden to the military-industrial complex.

Keep in mind that the military-industrial complex serves a role. It may be way out of control now, but even if it were far better controlled, there'd still be academics working for various parts.

By the way, university selection process has little to do with free thinking. Universities want staff that gets funding and in this they select those who will not challenge authority. Those who will not question these policies.

Sure, there are plenty where the above is true, but there are also plenty where this isn't true. Making general statements about the hiring habits of such a diverse group will be wrong.

Finally, I just think it's silly to think that the NSA is tasked with corrupting or controlling academics. Such a beast would no doubt be placed in a more innocous location like the Department of Education.

Evidence: "U.S. government corruption has 3 parts"

[Futurepower(R)]

See the evidence in the comment below "U.S. government corruption has 3 parts". There is a short review of two movies that explain quite a lot.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[david.given]

Duality for modules over finite rings and applications to coding theory
Bounding the number of geometric permutations induced by k-transversals
A unified framework for enforcing multiple access control policies
Affine Lie algebras and multisum identities

I think these only qualify as torture if you're a math or computer science graduate student.

You urgently, urgently need to read The Atrocity Archives, by Charlie Stross. You will very quickly change your mind. Trust me on this.

"Maryland Procurement Office" isn't a cover

[Animats]

It's not much of a cover. NSA lists the Maryland Procurement Office on their web site, in the "Doing Business with NSA" section. It's their central point for contractor invoicing. "DoD IECA PKI Certificate is required to access the website."

NSA used to be far more secretive. But that was a long time ago. Now everyone knows who they are and what they do.

The NSA is well known to do

[sentientbrendan]

a lot of cryptography and security work. I should note that there's absolutely nothing wrong in funding such research, in fact these papers benefit everyone. I don't think this should be confused with torture, as the article seems to do.

All the information I saw linked was pure mathematics research.

However, these papers aside, I have to say that the NSA runs with too little public oversight. The domestic wiretapping, which continues to go on without any kind of meaningful regulation is a good example of no american agency should be allowed to run as a black box to the other two branches of the government. Independents need to be brought in to make sure the NSA doesn't continue to step over ethical and legal boundaries.

Right now, I tend to think that the NSA isn't an evil organization. However, they could easily become destructive in the hands of an administration with the will and ability to politicize the agency. I'm sure the current administration would love to use them to spy on their many political enemies, if they aren't already.

I guess no member of your family was killed...

[Futurepower(R)]

Quote: "... your link states that US has bombed 24 countries, not invaded, big difference"

I guess no member of your family has ever been killed by the U.S. government. If you had lost a loved one to U.S. government violence, you would not be concerned whether it was from bombing or invasion.

Re:I guess no member of your family was killed...

[ChePibe]

You know, changing the question isn't answering the question.

Re:I guess no member of your family was killed...

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you had been interested in starting a flamewar over U.S. government violence, you would not be concerned about telling the truth, and you would pretend bombing and invasion were the same."

See how much worse it sounds for you when what you did is accurately represented?

Lying is lying buddy, pulling the old "if you had a loved one die" garbage to cover it up makes you that much more disgusting and reprehensible.

And frankly, you could have avoided the criticism by correctly quoting your source in the first place, but you didn't, so you brought it on yourself.

But there is an icky aspect to this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Accept the money, accept the forever restrictions placed on you to disclose other aspects that you might not have published. This was how strong crypto was controlled for years. Is there a trapdoor in DES? The folks in the best position to know can't say because they were funded by, guess who, and they signed an agreement to get prior review of all pubs. What about other strong crypto? Same thing.

Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Erris]

Research into computer science, number theory or encryption are not the problems. The problem is a run away agency that's able to tap, transcribe and parse every phone conversation in the world. As the author noted:

Historically the two primary checks on NSA powers have not been Congressional oversight nor even the economic costs of bulk interception, but of costs of bulk transcription and translation.

None of those doing research had the information they needed to prevent the outrageous political misuse of the results of their research. Even if they did know a spy agency was funding their work on speech recognition none knew that it would be secretly applied to US conversations before the ATT whistle blower shouted out. Nor could they have imagined that other fundamental constitutional protections would be abridged.

References to torture are appropriate. That's what they will do to you when you are shuffled off to a room or thrown into jail without trial or charges as an "enemy combatant". How does that happen? Just say something bad about GWB.

Research should continue, but some projects should be avoided until the political structure of the country is set right. It is time to refuse work that can be grossly abused by an evil government because large parts of the government are both evil and out of control.

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Anonymous Coward]

None of those doing research had the information they needed to prevent the outrageous political misuse of the results of their research

Did you read the article, or just glance at it while freebasing. It looks like the researchers applied for the NSA grants with full knowledge of who was doing the funding, although some of them tried to hide it during publication.

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Beetle B.]

Likely very few of the research projects they're funding are of use only for questionable purposes.

If I were doing legitimate research, I would have no qualms about taking research funding from the NSA - as long as I can freely publish and discuss the results of my research.

And if I were doing research that only a few folks like the NSA could put to use, with little positive uses for my work, then it is irrelevant whether the NSA is funding it or not. If the Salvation Army funded it, then the NSA can misuse it.

Really - the only case where it would be worrisome is if some of the work was done directly for them, and not published for all to see. Other than that, it's all fine.

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Lars T.]

Likely very few of the research projects they're funding are of use only for questionable purposes. But if it can be used for questionable purposes by the government, it can just put its thumb on it and call it "vital for National Security" - and bang, nobody but the NSA can use it.

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[PitaBred]

References to torture are appropriate. That's what they will do to you when you are shuffled off to a room or thrown into jail without trial or charges as an "enemy combatant". How does that happen? Just say something bad about GWB.

Pop quiz: someone is screaming and running in the middle of an airport, and fighting with officers who try to calm her down. Do you a) let her go on to do whatever she feels like, which could include hurting other people, or b) take her some place to calm down? Sometimes, you can't save people from themselves, no matter how hard you try. That is in no way the police's fault. They were doing what they could to protect EVERYONE. But you fucking pussies out there who think everyone should be 100% safe no matter what they choose are making it pretty much impossible to legitimately protect anyone from anything, so everything is done under the guise of protecting against "terrorism", which is giving the authorities MORE power, and not allowing it to be kept in check. Welcome to your hole. Did you enjoy digging it?

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Erris]

b) take her some place to calm down? Sometimes, you can't save people from themselves, no matter how hard you try. That is in no way the police's fault. They were doing what they could to protect EVERYONE.

How about c) forbid her from flying, leaving her stranded far from home and outraged. When she objects, jump on her. Cram your 250lb knee into her 105lb back and wrench her arms out of her socket. Then drag her to the only room in the airport that does not have one of your fucking cameras in it.

We don't know what happened after that, but it's inexcusable. Prisoners are the responsibility of the state, end of story. They are not allowed to hurt themselves or others and they are supposed to be under your complete control. The worst thing that could have happened is one of these airport rent-a-cops decided to shut her up with a choke hold but she did not come out of it, and then the murder's boss decides to cover ass. Any way you go in this story is bad news. People are not supposed to die in custody, especially a 105 lb alleged crazy woman. What kind of incompetent assholes can't keep a 105 lb woman under wraps? Probably the kind of incompetent assholes who'd murder someone, intentionally or out of their inability to do anything right.

Re:Domestic Spying Sucks.

[Macthorpe]

I think the best line in this incredible theatrical performance of a comment is this one:

Cram your 250lb knee into her 105lb back Do you actually know how much people weigh?

The rest of what you said is complete conjecture. To question the fully witnessed and independently verified version of events outside the cell, then to transfer that level of paranoia to events that weren't witness seems to be a waste of time and completely counter-productive.

It can't be that hard to wait for the autopsy before you start throwing incredibly theories like "The police are incompetent assholes who'd murder someone".

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[nurb432]

Never saw that list before now.

Interesting how ford has a class A but GM doesnt. ( i remember years ago Ford actually used those valid 19x external addresses even on workstations. Not sure of the network guys were clueless about NAT type devices or just didn't care as it wasnt the same dangerous net as it is today ).

I wont get into how i know thats what they were doing :)

Some don't consider this government abuse.

[Futurepower(R)]

"Results 1 - 10 of about 8,400 for MDA904"

I don't know if the indexes are being deleted, but there are only 8,400 now.

You said, "Anyway, I forgot to note that it is possible that the information society will cut both ways, not only against us, but also against the governments that want to abuse us."

I'm surprised that some people don't consider this a story about abuse by the U.S. government. See this comment, which has been modded down to 0 at present: Zeitgeist, the movie.

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[mapkinase]

... and look at the hair raising changes this sinister IP did: corrected typo in "scolar".

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[Anonymous Coward]

From Wikipedia:

The Atrocity Archives (2004, ISBN 1-930846-25-8) is a collection of two stories by British author Charles Stross, consisting of the short novel The Atrocity Archive (originally serialized in Spectrum SF) and The Concrete Jungle, which won the 2005 Hugo Award for Best Novella.

The stories are Lovecraftian spy thrillers involving a secret history of the 20th century. Horror elements such as the Nazis using higher mathematics to open "gates" to other dimensions are combined with humorous elements satirizing bureaucracy.

Uh, yeah. I wouldn't be too concerned about the NSA using higher mathematics to open gates to the underworld or fraggle rock or whatever.

Parent is a moron

[Xonstantine]

That's what they will do to you when you are shuffled off to a room or thrown into jail without trial or charges as an "enemy combatant". How does that happen? Just say something bad about GWB. So tell me, when was the last time someone was identified as an enemy combatant and jailed without trial (where they were presumably waterboarded) simply for criticising Bush?

Re:Parent is a moron

[Anonymous Coward]

You're replying to twitter. In the future, I suggest you don't waste your time doing so.

Re:Parent is a moron

[DavidTC]

Three words: Sami al-Haj

Re:Parent is a moron

[Xonstantine]

Three words: Sami al-Haj Reading is fundamental. To whit:

So tell me, when was the last time someone was identified as an enemy combatant and jailed without trial (where they were presumably waterboarded) simply for criticising Bush?

The case of Sami al-Haj is complicated, and he may be innocent. Nevertheless, he wasn't imprisoned because he uttered some anti-Bush statements.

While undoubtedly there have been innocent people swept up and stuck in Gitmo, the idea that "dissenters" (who amount to about half the population) have anything to fear from the "Secret Police" is nothing more than a self-flattering group fantasy. They have deluded themselves into thinking that dissent is dangerous and that in turn they are doing something noble by "putting their lives on the line" by saying "Bush sucks". All this persecution that the libtards are feeling is a prison created in their own heads. The anti-Bush folks drove up to the edge of the cliff back even before 2000 and drove off without a pause into the inanity of hyperbole. It's idiotic and the people who follow it are idiots engaged in moronic group think...and I say this as someone that doesn't even like Bush.

Re:Parent is a moron

[DavidTC]

The case of Sami al-Haj is complicated, and he may be innocent.

'may'? No, he is innocent. It's not even debatable. The charges were absurd to start with and have been disproven even to the government's satisfaction.

Actually, scratch that. He's innocent because he hasn't been proven guilty in a court of law, period.

Nevertheless, he wasn't imprisoned because he uttered some anti-Bush statements.

No, he was imprisoned because he works for an organization that 'utters anti-Bush statements'.

If you don't like him, how about Badr Zaman Badr, who wrote satire aimed at Pakistan and US, was picked up by Pakistani military and turned over the US?

Re:Parent is a moron

[Xonstantine]

A foreign national being arrested by his own government and turned over to us because they claim he's a terrorist is not the same thing as being arrested for making anti-Bush statements. Try again.

And next time, try to use an example a little better than someone who acted as a unwitting courier for terrorist organizations, which absent any other exculpatory evidence is sufficient for detention during war time with said terrorist organizations. Even better would be an example of an American citizen rather than a foreign national (since a foreign national really isn't in a position to "voice dissent"). Anyways, like I said, you're engaging in mastubatory persecution fantasies.

Re:Parent is a moron

[DavidTC]

Neither of them were an 'unwitting courier for terrorist organizations', so I have no idea how to respond to that.

And I'm not engaging in anything. I was simply pointing out that the Bush administration is detaining people who voice opinions it doesn't like. It is, of course, doing that by making up charges against them.

If I were to assert that my brother had been pulled away by the CIA when entering the US from Canada and is currently being detained at GTMO, it'd be hard for you to demonstrate otherwise. (Except that neither of my brothers are actually missing.)

OTOH, if I assert that, oh, Nick Berg, who is in Iraq, is missing, first the government will deny it, and then 'release' him, where he ends up dead a day later.

What the government does not appear to be doing yet is detaining Americans within America who voice opinions it doesn't like, although it refuses to reveal who it's detained and refuses any sort of oversight of detention facilities so we really are just guessing that no one important appears to be missing. (This assumes we know who 'important' people are.)

What it appears to be doing with Americans is simply arresting protesters and then releasing them.

Do no evil.

[Xymor]

http://www.google.com/search?q=define:evil

please make it stop

[Anonymous Coward]

I work in defense of this country on a daily basis to prevent attacks on our nuclear storage and power generation facilities. What I want to say is that I don't believe we should be torturing people, running secret prisons or removing anyone's rights to a proper trial. This is America damn it. Even if the terrorists succeed in taking our lives, at least we'll die innocent, honorable and undeserving deaths. Let's not taint our society any longer, let's not deserve it, I love this country too much to see it turn into this. Tell me, what is the point of stopping the enemy if we turn into something far worse than they are? We have to take a step back and draw a line. Make this country something god could be proud of, and stop being afraid of what might happen.

It's never too late to stop funding this torture research, the prisons and the torture itself. If we keep up this sort of sordid behavior, the terrorists have already destroyed our unique identity. If anyone can read this who can do something about it, please stop funding these crimes.

That's all I wanted to say. We're all, everyone one of us, descended from Adam and Eve through Noah, God bless.

p.s. I have a solution to end the war peacefully, I believe. Call for a peace treaty and form a truce. We have to be the bigger men and step up to this. I believe the key is to have all of the middle eastern governments, not just Iraq, sign this treaty with us and our allies. Everyone on this planet needs to move forward to a brighter future where our children can smile and play together without fear or animosity. Otherwise, one day, they'll be the ones to commit torture and murder because we were too proud.

I hope someone out there listens who can make this happen in our lifetimes.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[Anonymous Coward]

You urgently, urgently need to learn the difference between "bad science fiction novel written by a Scottish communist" and "factual information". Trust me on this.

All I care about is...

[Quiet_Desperation]

...if I can turn in my neighbors yet.

They are getting *really* annoying.

I as going to rig their gas line to rupture, but then I cam to Slashdot and heard about this whole "police state" thing.

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[Repton]

The user talk page for that IP claims it is part of the "Wikileaks anonymizing network".

The USA does not torture!

[l0ungeb0y]

HAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

wait....

let me try it again...

The USA is a shining bastion of freedom and does not engage in torture!

HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAA ...ohhh my gut hurts

Re:The USA does not torture!

[Anonymous Coward]

And the irony is, if the things you thought were true really wer, you'd be on a hit list now.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAH!

So either you killed your idiot self or you're just plain stupid!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!

"The USA is a shining bastion of freedom and does not engage in torture!"

It is and you hate it, which is why you try so hard to pretend it's not true.

AAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA!

that made for a rude Sunday

[VENONA]

Was cooking dinner, kicking back, cleaning up a bit, and just generally having a nice Sunday. Read some news--boom! Now I have to bookmark a bunch of things, do a lot of reading, make moral decisions, etc.

I resent that. Yeah, eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, and all that. But eternal is beginning to get very damned eternal. A few years ago, I was wondering why I might have to explain what a blow job was when the kids did what I encouraged them to do--watch the news.

Those were the simple days. Now, if you can get your kids to watch the news, you might be having discussions about torture.

This is just depressing as hell. I'm tempted to vote for Ron Paul, in hopes of at least rattling some cages. In the end, I'll vote for whoever is toughest on lobbyists. But no candidate can be tough enough, as far as I'm concerned. The Great Experiment is failing.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[greyhueofdoubt]

...the bulk of them are nerds working on computers trying to break ciphers or improve our own.


Freudian slip, eh? ;-)
-b

* spooky music for NSA boogeymen *

[brennz]

full disclosure: I work for the govt.

The nutcase conspiracy theorists really crack me up. You have crackpots talking about horrible research being done, for perverted government ends.

I look at the same result thing and see lots of bleeding-edge research in cryptographic, sigint, hardware oriented, and computer security avenues.

The more links I read on NSA funded research, the more I am pleased that the NSA, more so than any other singular institution, is funding research into critical areas of national security.

Take a peek for yourself

Re:* spooky music for NSA boogeymen *

[deftcoder]

funding research into critical areas of national security

... like how to more effectively eavesdrop on the private phone calls of citizens without due process?

I've seen hospitals doing that

[Fencepost]

I think the expectation is that since they're extensively firewalled they don't worry about whether the addresses are routable.

ibid

[Anonymous Coward]

With the huge lack of transparency brought about during the Bush administration, how would anyone know the answer to this question?

Re:ibid

[Xonstantine]

Given the tremendous number of people, famous and otherwise, that criticise Bush on a daily basis and do so with impunity, I think the onus is on you to prove the allegations rather than for me to disprove them.

Re:ibid

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy shit you are right! It must be happening then!!!

And the point is?

[kakapo]

The post and wikileaks article seems unduly breathless -- of the 2000 hits you get for the procurement code, about half of the linked articles also contain the string "NSA" -- and this (in the sample I looked at), usually appears in the acknowledgments section. This is hardly some big secret that has slipped out onto the web.

It is well known that the NSA pays for fundamental research, and I know a number of very good scientists whose very interesting work is openly supported by them.

As to the ethical issues involved, if you are doing work that you report in the open scientific literature, the NSA will have access to it whether or not they actually pay for it -- along with the rest of the world.

39,000 hits?

[Anonymous Coward]

I only get 8,420 hits right now.

MDA908 is much more interesting

[Animats]

Search for "MDA908", the "Virginia Contracting Activity". Much more interesting items come up.

• Black Excursions.
  "The Virginia Contracting Activity on behalf of the Defense Intelligence Agency, request for quotations to purchase and install items listed on the RFQ (emergency response equipment) on black excursions."
• Buying missiles from Venezuelan general.
  A covert missile deal went bad, and the payment issue ended up in court. A good read.
• Video Grammar for Locating Named People
  One of many research papers associated with digesting audio and video content into useful forms.
• A Bayesian network for identifying suspicious visitors
  Published in 2004. A reasonable project to be working on at that point.

The Virginia Contracting Activity seems to be the financial management point for DIA, ARDA, and some DARPA and CIA work.

*YAWN*

[ChePibe]

As fun as it is reading the blatherings of 17-year olds (please, for the sake of my own sanity, do not tell me you are an adult) trying to redirect traffic to a website which seems to put forward the argument that a few intensive viewings of Enemy of the State and a glancing look at Loose Change give one sufficient expertise to discuss the national security apparatus of the United States, I think I'll have a good bit of fun and jump in on this one:

1) There are U.S. government agencies that exist for the purpose of murdering, torturing, and otherwise breaking the law and showing no respect for the law.

You mean that U.S. agencies might - shudder - break the law? Do you really mean that? Honest and for true? Well, knock me over with a feather! It's not as if the CIA - an espionage agency - wasn't openly created for that very purpose in 1947.

Yes, the CIA breaks the laws of foreign countries regularly. All the time. It's part of the CIA's job.

HOLY CRAP, THE EVIL NEO-CON (my personal status as a neo-conservative is quite debatable) ADMITS IT!

OF COURSE the U.S. has an intelligence service devoted to getting information from others through illicit means. EVERY MEANINGFUL COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS ONE AS WELL! All of them! Espionage is an accepted part of international relations. It is simply expected. It is used by all sides. Grown-ups have come to deal with this. We also realize that what we see in the movies and what happens in real life are, quite often, different?

Also, why should a U.S. citizen be held liable for breaking the law of another country inside the U.S., while acting at the request of the U.S. government, in a location where, 9 times out of 10, the individual has been granted immunity by the HOST COUNTRY upon entry? Or are you unfamiliar with the Vienna convention of 1961? I'm going to assume so, since given this sort of logic on your own website:

Did the CIA aid in murder? Obviously BBC News thought the story was likely to be true, or it wouldn't have published it. There are certainly many pronouncements of other countries that the BBC ignores. Presumably if the BBC had supportive information, it would have presented it. Since there is no supportive information in the article, presumably there was none.

Since the BBC is the ultimate arbiter of fact and fiction, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't.

Then there's this gem:

the problems discussed here seem to come only from one department of the CIA, the department that supports secret action. The other main department of the CIA collects information. There don't seem to be problems with collection of information.

Oh, but what department is it! I can't find any departments in the CIA! Oh, dang, that must be because it's organized in DIRECTORATES! At the time of this blathering, you were most likely speaking of the DIRECTORATE of Operations, presently subsumed into the National Clandestine Service. Perhaps you were simply too lazy to locate this information. Perhaps you were afraid that evil gamma-ray beams from the CIA would melt your brain if you researched it. Or, perhaps, you're discussing some super-secret organization that no one has ever heard of! Ooooh, scary!

2) Those agencies are secret. U.S. citizens must pay for the agencies, but citizens are not allowed to know what the agencies are doing or even how much they are paying.

So, do you advocate that the government make public all of the following information for all citizens?

• Medical files for all who have received government funded health care
• Academic records
• Tax records
• Voting records
• Welfare records
• Driving records
• Social security information
• Nuclear launch codes, the location of all nuclear weapons, the precise method of maintaining and arming nuclear weapons, security around these weapons, etc.

If not, wh

Neither is the "Virginia Procurement Office"

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.11/patton.html?pg=1

And note this was published in Wired in *1995*. Nice Googlestalking there, folks....

Not really news

[GrEp]

Not really news to those in the math community. Many papers even thank the NSA explicitly for funding. In addition NSA mathematicians attend many conferences and even give great talks. But then algorithms for finite fields isn't a sexy cloak and dagger of a research area...

Paranoia

[richardellisjr]

This article is nothing but paranoia. First off yes, the American spy agencians sponsor papers, this isn't and shouldn't be news to anyone. Secondly the NSA isn't as evil as this article make them out to be. Take for example one product that the NSA bought with tax payer money. SE Linux. This could arguably be the most secure operating system on the planet and they made their changes/additions free and open source. They took your taxpayer money and provided in open source a version of linux that was more secure than anything freely available. Should they have been prevented from doing so because it "may" have been used to secure torture data. You could look at everything that way. For example look at the CDC, they could, should and probably do fund research on new diseases expected to hit the world population. Should the world bitch that they are looking for new biological warfare weapons? If I were so inclined I could probably find may grants from CDC on such research, but I don't think I need to wear a tin foil hat or a biochemical suit. Any research if looked at from a tin foil hat mind can be used against mankind. I could go on about how mankind is "evil" by nature, and people would and will find fault in any research, but those who wear the tin foil won't listen, comprehend or care. This is another case of the stupid getting something to the front page that should made it there.

Re:Paranoia

[splatter]

I'm sorry I realize that I am a certified paranoid but I don't think I would trust a "secure" distrobution of any OS from the NSA unless I plannd on reading the entire code.

thanks but I'm not falling for the old banana in the tail pipe trick...

The best strength of the U.S. is disappearing.

[Futurepower(R)]

Quote: "Yes, the CIA breaks the laws of foreign countries regularly. All the time. It's part of the CIA's job...

OF COURSE the U.S. has an intelligence service devoted to getting information from others through illicit means."

For more than two centuries, what many people have loved most about the United States is that the rule of law was strong here, and applied to presidents and poor people alike. Now that strength is disappearing, and that makes anyone who loves the U.S. as I do very, very sad.

Bruce Springsteen says, Silence Is Unpatriotic. I'm not the only one.

hee hee

[Anonymous Coward]

It's fun to edit wikis that are posted to Slashdot, especially when the author's last name is two letters away from "Assranger."

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[truesaer]

I interned at Ford a few years back in an area related to networking. Basically the deal with corps that get class A blocks is that they happened to request them before people realized that they would run out pretty damn quick. Basically dumb luck on the part of the companies that ended up getting them.

Ah yes...

[ChePibe]

The "but in the past, everything was grand!" argument.

U.S. global activity was previously limited by only two things - lack of a need to do it and a lack of ability. Both exist now.

For more than two centuries, what many people have loved most about the United States is that the rule of law was strong here, and applied to presidents and poor people alike.

Wow.

You're beyond ignorant. Now you've entered the realm of plain stupid.

Here's a few words for you:

Jim Crow
Little Big Horn
Rosa Parks
Martin Luther King
Extermination Order
Manifest Destiny
Slavery
Japanese internment

Not to mention previous U.S. efforts in espionage. George Washington himself was heavily involved in U.S. intelligence gathering, and the grand idealist Woodrow Wilson adopted the use of signals intelligence during the negotiations for the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. Ah, that grand period of the rule of law, applied to rich and poor alike! So long as they were, you know, white. And not too poor.

Countries lie, cheat, and steal all the time. Also, neither Santa Claus nor the Easter Bunny are real.

You don't love the U.S. You love a land that never has - and never will - exist. A land created by your 3rd grade teacher. A land you read about in a book by some author as daft as yourself.

Silence is, in fact, unpatriotic. So is your willful stupidity and ignorance of America's past and the world it lives in.

No Domestic Wiretapping

[Anonymous Coward]

The NSA does NOT do "domestic wiretapping." That's a myth. You're thinking of the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover, from the 1920's until the early 1970's. Hoover had secret files on everyone based on wiretapping and other methods.

The NSA, under a FISA Judge (a Clinton appointee btw) is now required to get a warrant for every message passing through a US "wire" including fiber optics. Recently several US soldiers in Iraq were kidnapped by Al Qaeda (remember them?) There was a court-enforced delay while the NSA put together a warrant application to tap the IM and Sat Phone traffic of the kidnappers, because the messages ran through US fiber optics in the US. Even though both ends were in Iraq. It took over 200 man hours to produce the warrant application, which was finally approved. After the body, tortured and mutilated grotesquely in savage fashion, of Pvt Joseph Anzack and another soldier were dumped. Several others are missing still and presumed dead after REAL torture.

The REAL torture that AQ inflicted on Joe Anzack includes (while he was alive): disemboweling, drills through limbs, cutting off of genitals, and beheading. The cost of privacy rights for terrorists abroad is measured in his suffering and death. He deserved better from you. He put his life on the line for you, the least you could have done is back him up when he needed it most.

DCI McConnell, no partisan (he's served under Clinton) testified under oath that it takes on average 200 man hours to apply for warrants if comms pass through US "wires" or if one end is in the US. That's no way to do the job, just CYA that places politics over lives.

Congress already has plenty of NSA (and CIA) oversight. Too bad they leak like a sieve whenever we find ways to catch terrorists intent on killing us. A little gut-check is in order: what's the priority, stop another 9/11 or privacy rights absolutism. You can't have and do both, you gotta choose. And take the medicine if another plot happens that is *WORSE* than 9/11 and the means to stop it were cast aside out of PC-politicking. You'll get no oversight at all. Right now you've got people in the CIA and NSA more worried about legal investigations than finding out the next plot to kill Americans.

As far as the grants help the NSA find new ways to catch the enemy, particularly with pattern analysis, all to the good. Americans do technology better than terrorists. It's probably more effective too than questioning prisoners because it can catch ongoing plots they may know nothing about. Terrorists have lots of info but AQ and other orgs are heavily compartmentalized. But human and catchable with enough resources and will.

Who funds what in the mil-intel space

[Anonymous Coward]

First off, reality check.

Funding is generally though not always jiggered in favor of preferred vendors. As someone who's worked in ancillary government fields for a while I know the process. Government officials won't always work for the government, particularly if they are political appointees and there is a change of Admin which there always is after 8 years. So they have an incentive to favor a contractor and expect to be a paid consultant later. This works for Congress too. Including staffers.

MAJOR projects are almost always jiggered for one vendor or another. They are usually loooonnnggg and take years/decades to fulfill.

One of the major efforts of Rummy (unfairly maligned IMHO for precisely this reason) was to change all this. Make procurement more short-term with short term deliveries and open to anyone, with lots of small money.

One of the big things that kill our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan are IEDs. The Humvee was never built for that. Bradleys are too slow, big, and noisy. Plus they need a lot of repair. Various vendors have offered (on their own dime) some solutions, including Blackwater. Which has the "Grizzly" which has a V-shaped hull (sends the shockwave outwards) and is IED resistant (it keeps the crew alive). Other innovations include new lightweight squad operated UAVs (which btw the Air Force HATES because IT wants to run all UAV procurement, needs of the guys in the field be damned). Or HK's new upper system for the M-4 carbine which greatly enhances reliability to AK-47 levels without sacrificing accuracy (a monumental achievement that will save guys lives). Camelback has variations of it's hydration system that will also save lives.

These aren't big money contracts. Most of the vendors will make a small profit, that's it. Rates of return might be around 5%. And the DoD through the Navy, Marines, Army, and Air Force are the agencies putting out these requirements, or in some case vendors are offering it on their own dime and initiative. Many of these vendors are run by ex-vets focused on keeping Soldiers and Marines alive.

NSA bids out on basic research to enhance their ability to use massive computing power to spot bad guys. They legally collect a ton of foreign data and look for ways to find the needle in the haystack plotting to blow Americans up.

The CIA is NOT letting torture/interrogation contracts. In fact the CIA officers are treating prisoners with kid gloves. They are afraid of getting hung out to dry like the guys in Peru. [During the Clinton 90's CIA officers directed Peruvian Air Force planes to shoot down a suspected drug trafficking plane. Unfortunately it was filled not with drug traffickers but missionaries. The ensuing lawsuits bankrupted the CIA officers and effectively ended their careers and those of their supervisors. NO ONE lost their jobs, was demoted, went to jail, or was punished in any way for not stopping 9/11. Believe me THAT lesson was not lost on anyone. NO ONE will suffer in the least for following CYA and pursuing the bare-min legalistic approach. Your career could end on "torture" allegations for turning up the AC.]

Besides the CIA does not have the budget. They can't attract people who have language skills, the ability to operate in nasty places like Waziristan, and who have initiative. It's like IBM circa 1990 trying to hire people away from Microsoft or Apple. The CIA is big, bloated, bureaucratic and CYA.

tinfoil hat 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Half of the pages link to a malicious website which plants a backdoor on your box :)

are you kidding me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nevermind the amusing misspell of "Securety" on the linked page, let us just look at the titles of the NSA "Example Documents" :

• Finding Person X: Correlating Names with Visual Appearances
• Speech Activity Detection on Multichannels of Meeting Recordings
• Enriching Speech Recognition with Automatic Detection of Sentence Boundaries
• A Chinese semantic lexicon of senses and roles

Are you serious? This is bread and butter artificial intelligence research: computer vision, computational linguistics. If you want the computer from Star Trek then you should be happy at least someone is pouring money into this work.

We wouldn't be working on it if we couldn't publish; everyone gets the results no matter who pays. I am annoyed that the article summary saw fit to mention torture but not "Automatic Detection of Sentence Boundaries."

The Alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

So, it's a bad thing that the NSA funds lots of research that will end up being published to the public? Would you rather they keep all research in house and all findings secret until someone on the outside wastes the effort to reach the same conclusions, at which point the patent office may reveal a secret NSA patent?

Re:The article is edit by unknown/reserved IP numb

[Lars T.]

The user talk page for that IP claims it is part of the "Wikileaks anonymizing network".

Gee, who would have thought, a whistle-blower site that automatically anonymizes the IP-Adresses of its posters.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you meant to say:

Duality for modules over finger rings and applications to coping theory

Binding the number of geometrics per-mutilation induced by k-transversals

A unified framework for forcing multiple access control points

Affluent lie algebras and multiple identities

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[IndustrialComplex]

I don't see how that would be a slip. My tax money paid for those cyphers as well. It is owned by the people, even if it isn't public.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[elrous0]

I'm more creeped out by vague but sinister project names like "Project Bare Metal" and "the SHADE Project." Most of this stuff seems to deal with security and cryptography. Looks like our friends at the NSA are trying to figure out how to crack encryption and bypass (or strengthen their own) security. I guess they got bored just reading our email and tapping our phones.

Just to be clear...

[FreddyKnockout]

the NSA is not in charge of Gundam.

Puhleeze

[eh2o]

I for one would much prefer to see money diverted from bomb-making and gratuitous eavesdropping to nerds who like to think about number theory.

Vista "just works" at Guantanamo Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

"Wikileaks is reporting that the CIA has funded covert research on torture techniques Nuff said.

Bigger than That

[Doc Ruby]

This research exposes only a single grant code, responsible for up to "tens of $millions" in funding for NSA work. The NSA has budgets in the $BILLIONS, if not tens of $BILLIONS, every year. I'm sure there are more grant codes, and this research is exposing perhaps only one percent or less of what the NSA is spending covertly every year.

Re:Torture? Submitter did not RTFA.

[david.given]

Uh, yeah. I wouldn't be too concerned about the NSA using higher mathematics to open gates to the underworld or fraggle rock or whatever.

If you're keen on wikipedia, try this article. I suspect it may be a new concept to you (and to a number of other people. Did I really get modded 'troll'? Get a grip, guys).