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US Faces $100 Billion Fine For Web Gambling Ban
Stony Stevenson writes with the news that the World Trade Organization is seeking billions of dollars in compensation from the United States from their ban on internet gambling. The view of the WTO is that the US has reneged on commitments to the organization. "The disputed concessions arise from Antigua's victory earlier this year when the WTO ruled that the US violated its treaty obligations by excluding online Antiguan gaming operators, while allowing domestic operators to offer various forms of online gaming. Instead of complying with the ruling, the Bush administration withdrew the sizeable gambling industry from its free trade commitments. As a result, all 151 WTO members are considering seeking compensation for the withdrawal equal to the size of the entire US land-based and online gaming market, estimated at nearly US$100 billion."
Good!
Look, whether or not you agree with gambling, surely any reasonable person can see that the situation as it is now is simply untenable.
Gambling is allowed in some places (Las Vegas, Atlantic Ctiy, etc.) but not in others. Worse, in yet more places some forms of gambling is allowed (Bingo, horse racing, dog racing) but not others (blackjack, poker, etc.). Worst of all, in some places, such as the place where I happen to live, some gambling is allowed in the form of lotteries, but it is completely owned and run by the state government monopoly.
And to add to the madness, we now have laws on the book that say that online gambling is okay, but only on horse racing (thanks to a strong lobby) and within state lines?
I'm not averse to some sort of regulation to ensure that online casinos aren't cheating, but this sham of acting like gambling is an issue of morality so that government can use it as an excuse for avoiding competition is ridiculous. As long as the US continues its patchwork enforcement of laws based on outdated concepts of how people should and shouldn't live, we deserve to pay what amounts to a $100 billion annual Stupid Tax.
I still think that they ought to be allowed to violate US copyrights as an appropriate punishment. When the government (i.e. you and I, incidentally) is paying the $100 billion, people won't really care. But if corporate America starts losing money, I think you'll start seeing some rather dramatic changes very quickly.
The U.S. ain't goin to pay.
My page.
Can we just apologize for banning online gambling, and promise to put it back? I would be happy to do that.
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Congress passes a law to protect US citizens from unscrupulous gambling operations that are not subject to the same kind of regulations that Casinos in the U.S. must meet -- and the world responds via the WTO by trying to extort $100 Billion dollars from the U.S. -- which means taking money from every citizen and company in the U.S. that pays taxes to support offshore companies right to not live up to regulations that make it more difficult to cheat the gamblers out of all their money -- and each of us will pay for that whether we as individuals or companies gamble or not.
Though not hopeful, I think the U.S. in this case should tell the WTO to go pound rocks.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
US Congress in the pocket of US gaming industry association. The WTO is in the pocket of International gaming association. Good fight. Promises great action. Wanna bet who is going to win?
The US views the WTO as a convenient hammer to get it's ways in certain situations and as a small nuisance when it rules against them. The US hardly ever listens. And generally is a asshole to it's friends and trading partners. Thankfully it's economic influence looks to be waning due to very poor economic management.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Who enforces this fine?
If your neighbours roof is flying past your window, you know it's cyclone season.
China bans it internally as well as externally. Same with Germany: It doesn't matter if you are German citizen or not in that example.
The US in this case only bans it if you are not in the US. Which is exactly what the treaty the US signed with the WTO said we won't do. (Not just on gambling.) If the law applied equally to US and non-US gambling there would be no problem.
The WTO does not have a problem with any of their member nations banning something. It only has a problem when you try to shut other countries out of your markets intentionally, while keeping the local companies in them. This is the point of the WTO, and it benifits the US in many cases. It's why the USA pushed for the formation of the WTO, and for countries to sign the treaty the US violated.
The US is being stupid, and is going to pay for it. It is that simple. If the US wanted to ban online gambling, then it should ban online gambling, not just everyone else's online gambling.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
This is what the printing press is for.
Eventually sure the US will pay. Print up a bunch of government IOUs to give to the central bank(s) of the world.
And in the end who really pays for this "instant money"?
Us. Through the hidden tax called "inflation" (and interest on a federal debt that grows endlessly).
In other words, the WTO is effectively punishing every man, woman, and child in the U.S. (in addition to every taxpayer) for something they don't like.
Translation #2: steal wealth from the U.S. to be redistributed elsewhere. Namely, the pockets of the rich central bankers. (You didn't honestly think this was stealing from rich to feed the poor, did you?)
Central banks are evil and must be destroyed.
yea.. we should totally start letting foreign gambling sites take all our money away through gambling on sites we can't regulate. I don't think you understand how seriously gambling laws are enforced in the US and how much is done to make sure it is completely legitimate.
If we stopped paying for the War in Iraq, we could pay off this WTO fine 4.6 times over!
Mod it Off-Topic if you like, but I think it puts both blunders (Iraq and WTO) into better perspective.
*cough*softwood*cough*salmon.
Even with a WTO judgement the US still wouldn't pay up. When they elected Vice President Harper here he cut his buddy Bush a deal and accepted ten cents on the dollar instead which the people who actually lost that money were more than a little pissed about.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Believe what you want about how abortion should have panned out, but the Supreme Court put the final nail in the 10th Amendment's coffin with the Roe v. Wade ruling. If you want to change that, vote for a Constitutionalist.
FanFictionRecs.net
"It was trying to protect domestic corporations and tax revenue."
This is not accurate. The legislation that was passed does exactly the opposite.
Had this been the real reason for the legislation, then taxation and regulation would have been the outcome, but banning the industry totally just opened the market to less scrupulous offshore operations, guaranteeing that domestic corporations couldn't compete AND preventing the gathering of tax revenue.
The UIGEA had ONE and ONLY ONE reason for being passed, it was a desperate attempt by a desperate incumbent to appeal to his religious constituents, in order to pave the way for future political advancement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIGEA#Internet_gambling_provisions
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
I think that the problem that the WTO has is that the US allows US vendors to sell gambling activities to people who do not live in the US.
The do NOT allow US citizens to purchase gambling activities outside of the US.
The US believes something similar to:
If you sell a product to your neighbour - this is ok.
If your neighbour sells you the same product, this is illegal.
But, I may be over-simplifying.
Gambling is not necessarily a losing proposition. Some games the house always has an advantage (black jack, roulette, etc), but those aren't the only gambling games out there. In poker for instance, you aren't playing against the house. You are playing against other players. Sure, most of them lose, but some players are winners. It's not that hard to be a winning player at small stakes. Sports gambling is another area where you can consistently win. The house makes money on the vig. All the care about is setting lines so that half the money is bet on each side. If you have inside information, or are a very good handicapper, you can win money gambling this way. Poker and sports gambling are really no different that something like managing a hedge fund or options trading. They are also forms of gambling, but gambling in a situation where you can stack the odds in your favor.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.