Slashdot Mirror


Airlines Have to Ask Permission to Fly 72 Hours Early

twitter wrote to mention that the TSA (Transport Security Administration) has released a new set of proposed rules that is raising quite a stir among groups ranging from the ACLU to the American Society of Travel Agents. Under the new rules airlines would be required to submit a passenger manifest (including full name, sex, date of birth, and redress number) for all flights departing, arriving, or flying over the United States at least 72 hours prior to departure. Boarding passes will only be issued to those passengers that have been cleared. "Hasbrouck submitted that requiring clearance in order to travel violates the US First Amendment right of assembly, the central claim in John Gilmore's case against the US government over the requirement to show photo ID for domestic travel. [...] ACLU's Barry Steinhardt quoted press reports of 500,000 to 750,000 people on the watch list (of which the no-fly list is a subset). 'If there are that many terrorists in the US, we'd all be dead.' TSA representative Kip Hawley noted that the list has been carefully investigated and halved over the last year. 'Half of grossly bloated is still bloated,' Steinhardt replied."

12 of 596 comments (clear)

  1. Your payperz, plezz by TrentTheThief · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back when I was young, the Soviet Union required internal passports... Seems to me that things are rapidly progressing that way here.... Maybe it's time to emigrate to Russia now that they're freer than Americans in America.

    1. Re:Your payperz, plezz by niiler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, my dad was born in Estonia and lived under both Soviet and Nazi occupations. And one of the things he has always told me was that freedom is a slippery slope. Dictators and tyrants have always used some version of the phrase: "for the greater good" to get what they want. Although you are right in that we are still nowhere close to Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany, acceding to this without even questioning the consequences to law-abiding Americans is ridiculous and leads us down the slippery slope.

    2. Re:Your payperz, plezz by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I dunno about that,... has anybody driven between Arizona & California recently. On a recent trip from Phoenix to San Diego, we were stopped on I-8, both ways. Going into California, a CA state officer stopped all traffic and asked what our origin and destination were. Going the other way, a federal border patrol agent stopped all traffic entering Arizona, inquiring the same, but asking more questions, like, "Is everyone in your car a US citizen?" He didn't ask to see a driver's license or other identification, but I suspect this is coming. And this is on a trip from Phoenix, Arizona, to San Diego, California! The Mexican border was close, sure, but it was never crossed!

  2. Civil Protest Idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All American citizens who wish to retain their freedom of movement should immediately begin informing their local authorities whenever they travel, no matter the distance or means of transport. Imagine how quickly the police, FBI, CIA, TSA, et cetera will get tired reports filed by self-reporting citizens explaining in detail that they need to go to work, stop by the grocery store, or visit their cousin in Roxbury....

  3. This proposal is DOA. by CodeShark · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So, if one of us techie types has a client whose information infostructure is downed hard for some reason, my company can no longer just put me on a same day flight to fix it? Or my dad (who is nearly 80) has a heart attack and I need to get there immediately or he dies first...Aside from the Airlines and Travel agents pitching a fit, business interests won't tolerate it, personal interests won't tolerate it - in fact no-one I can think of will tolerate it.


    Apparently the TSA has forgotten that this is America and we go where we like when we like and how we like (unless we're in prison, of course) without Uncle Sam knowing where we are. Like the commercial says, " we are free to move about the country."

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  4. Re:Back in the day when I was the young guy by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We may have to get to that point to satisfy the paranoids who would have me kicked off an airline if I forget to shave.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  5. If I ever win the lottery, I guess I'm outta luck by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've always dreamed of having enough money and spare time to pack a small suitcase, go to the airport, look at the departure boards, figure out what's leaving in the next couple of hours, and buy a first-class ticket to a destination I've never visited before.

    What? I have to know three days in advance everywhere I want to go?

    Shit.

    I guess I'll just have to dream about having enough money to have my own Gulfstream, since once you get to that level of wealth, the rules that apply to the little people are no longer a problem.

  6. So it takes 3 days to look a name up in a database by RichMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What sort of computers are the TSA using if it takes 3 days to match a name to a database.

    What century are we living in?

    1 hour before boarding is reasonable. Allows data entry and organization for response.
    Anything more is just a sloppy system.

  7. Re:Back in the day when I was the young guy by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

    With apologies in advance to Jonathan Swift, I think this is a great idea. But I'd go one step further. One could just as easily have driven a Ryder truck filled with explosives and put it under the World Trade Center. In fact, terrorists tried that once, and it almost worked. I feel strongly that we should be required to have a 72 hour screening period before renting a vehicle. Of course, if your car breaks down and you need a rental, you should have joined the "trusted driver" program ahead of time. We should also require such a screening before you can buy a car. After all, terrorists spent thousands of dollars on explosives for that truck, so what's another few thousand to buy or lease a car? I think you can see how important it is that only trusted patriotic Americans be allowed to purchase an automobile.

    Further, automobiles only provide the casing for the bomb. We should have similar levels of trust for people purchasing bomb-making supplies. For example, we should require a minimum of a 7 day waiting period and appropriate security screening prior to purchasing fertilizer, as you can easily use that to make a bomb. Don't forget gasoline, either. We need at least a 72 hour screening period before you can fill up at the pump. People who need to fill up quickly should trade their privacy rights as part of our "trusted gas purchaser" program.

    But that's not the biggest problem we face. The fundamental truth is that terrorists are people. None of these problems would exist if people prone to terrorist actions were not allowed to be born. For this reason, I would like to recommend a mandatory DNA screening prior to giving birth to children. Any children with terroristic tendencies should not be allowed to be carried to term. As an added bonus, these aborted fetuses can be used for scientific research, and in some cases, can be repurposed as a healthy food source for our nation's underprivileged.

    I hope by this point you realize that this entire post is satire. My purpose in writing it is to show just how silly the argument of prescreening for aircraft flights in the name of national security really is. While I can't see the U.S. government actually going so far as suggesting that we eat babies to protect against terrorism, we are rapidly approaching that level of absurdity in our national security policy. I think it is time that we all take a step back, breathe, then laugh out loud at these policies at every possible opportunity. Only through laughter can we adequately portray the current administration and its policies as the laughingstock that they are.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  8. forget about back in the day... by WebCowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At my job we aren't so young and most have families and we still have to make last-minute flights from time to time. On more than one occasion this year I've had to book flights within 72 hours of departure.

    I can tell you that in many business cases there is absolutely NO WAY that this proposal is workable. People MUST be able to make travel plans up to and including the day of departure. 3 days is just not workable and the business community simply would not tolerate implementation of this proposal.

    There are also far to many last-minute trips made on compassionate grounds. What about flights arranged to see dying loved ones, or to transport donor organs, or to get special treatment at a distant hospital? Hell, you can get a passport faster than 72 hours under normal cases for such reasons. If your identity can be verified well enough to get a passport that quickly then clearing you for a flight should be much easier than that.

    Three days? That'll never fly. MAYBE three HOURS, but not three days.

    It goes beyond that though--the same proposal not only wants lists for all flights arriving or departing US locations, it wants flight lists for ALMOST EVERY FLIGHT THAT PASSED OVER US AIRSPACE as well...which means they'd like the government to demand passenger lists from Canadian and Mexican airlines for many of their flights that never touch American soil. Not enough to violate their own civil liberties--in the name of safety everyone's liberties must be unduly curtailed.

  9. This could be great news for Rail Travel by netsavior · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The US is still in the 19th century as far as rail travel goes compared to the rest of the world. Maybe this will help us realize that there are other options.

  10. balance by drDugan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On a long enough time scale, most everything balances out.

    The premise of the libertarian movement is small governement. There is a reason that a candidate like Ron Paul is getting so much press and support now - the actions of the government are becoming onerous and encroaching on basic human freedoms.

    What the world needs now is a large group of people to collectively tell the state (Read: US FEDERAL GOVERENMNET) to "Back the fuck off" and stay where they belong: defending the country against known threats, domestic and international and creating real domesitc security (not this fake, fear mongering/engineered solution cycle).

    "Watch lists" are part of LAZY POLICE WORK. If there is a person that is planning something - investigate them, charge them, arest them. Follow the laws we have now. All the rest of this crap in the name of security is just plain ineffective, lazy behavior driven by the need to cover their asses and assauge their fears that they will be accountable if any thing happens.

    The reality is that there is no way to stop terrorism, and people have to get OK with that. If some sicko wants to kill a bunch of people, he or she will. If some sicko wants to fill a truck with fertilizer and gas, and drive into a building, they will. Tough shit. Somebody should have listened to their pleas for help long ago. Living is a world that makes it impossible for someone to bring down a plane is not a world that I want to live in, becuase it means draconian crontrols on freedoms. Those same freedoms we fought for and won hundreds of years ago, and many have died defending. I'd much rather we build a world where people DON'T WANT TO BRING DOWN PLANES. That is completely possible, and if we spent our energies there instead of the current track, we would all have happier, healthier lives.

    The debate is not "should we have watch lists or not". The debate is, "who came up with this ridiculous crap and how soon can we remove them from power?"