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Ubuntu On Dell After Four Months

Posted by kdawson on from the steady-as-she-goes dept.

mrcgran sends us to LXer for an interview with John Hull, a manager of the Linux Engineering team at Dell, where he reports on how the Ubuntu machines have been working out for them so far. "Embracing Ubuntu Linux on our desktops and laptops seems to have really raised Dell's visibility within the Linux community. We have been supporting, testing, developing for, and selling Linux for 8+ years here at Dell, but before the Ubuntu announcement, a lot of people didn't know that we did any of that... Previous to our Ubuntu product announcement... we would have a conversations with vendors about pushing Linux support for their hardware, but without a Linux product offering from Dell for that hardware, it was very difficult to convince them to release Linux drivers. That has certainly changed now... The original sales estimates for Ubuntu computers was around 1% of the total sales, or about 20,000 systems annually. The program so far is meeting expectations. Customers are certainly showing their interest and buying systems preloaded with Ubuntu, but it certainly won't overtake Microsoft Windows anytime soon."

20 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. 1% of PC Sales? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is that total units shipped or just consumer units?

  2. Within the retail sector... by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...Dell have raised the awareness of Linux to the point where potentials are actually asking if Windows or Linux is installed. Eighteen months ago, that wouldn't have happened. Eighteen months ago people asked if a machine had XP, 2003, ME, 2K, or whatever version of Windows, but hardly ever Linux. I'm a Linux user myself, by preference (and politic, and budget), and advocate it wherever I can. I'm not saying it's for everybody, it might not be, but if you want a toaster, get a toaster. If you want a toaster that deep fries your sunday roast with all the trimmings, give Linux a go. :)

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:Within the retail sector... by speaker+of+the+truth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you want a toaster that deep fries your sunday roast with all the trimmings, give Linux a go. :) If you want something that can install most programs you'll want to install, don't go Linux. I'm enjoying my Linux, but I am having trouble installing things that I can't find in a repository (although repositories do make it damn easy to install and update programs).
      --
      Using openSUSE instead of Windows since 9th of October, 2007 and liking it.
    2. Re:Within the retail sector... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, you'll probably get blasted for that post. :-)

      Really, though, package installation is incredibly easy in most distributions now, with repositories handling all dependencies. In Ubuntu, for instance, there is an "Add Programs" icon in the Applications Menu by default, that lists the most popular applications and separates them into categories so there is no information overload. If you know the exact name of the package to install (such as subversion or tomcat), open up synaptic and choose the package there. Either way, all dependencies are automatically taken care of and installation is entirely automatic (once you enter your administrator password).

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    3. Re:Within the retail sector... by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With the added bonus that the software you get is very probably free of malware of any kind (if you use $DISTRO default repository) So if I am the maintainer of a Free application, how do I make it notable enough to be included in $DISTRO default repository so that users of $DISTRO can easily install it? Or is there another preferable deployment method for maintainers of lesser-known packages on common GNU/Linux distributions?
    4. Re:Within the retail sector... by Trelane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They can't garauntee that Linux works with every hardware configuration, so they create some configurations that do work under Linux, and let you buy from those. Although I think it would be nice if their ordering system figured out that yes, you system was compatible with Linux, and let you choose it, or point out which items aren't compatible with Linux, and offer alternatives.
      Sounds plausible, except that they already do this. Some peripherals require Vista or some version of Vista, and you get a little warning if you choose them without having selected whatever is required.
      --

      --
      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
    5. Re:Within the retail sector... by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was able to do what you did with the Ubuntu click and drool interface as well.

      I then went to install subversion on windows. Ubuntu install was 100 times easier than windows as I had to search for a version that was acceptable. I finally settled on TortiseSVN which was nice.

      Overall install on my ubuntu and my Fedora Core 7 box took very little time. Ubuntu was the least time and least effort. windows ended up the most as you had to find the software and then install it. fedora was as simple as your example, ubuntu was easier as it was in a list of icons I can click on.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:Within the retail sector... by cmdr_tofu · · Score: 2, Interesting


      >I'm 99% sure that Ubuntu or Debian people can do similar things with DEBs. Of course, the >downside with the package approach is you have to have one package per distro (take a look at >Skype; skype isn't in any linux repositories, but it supplies 4-5 RPMs and a binary tarball).

      Actually I type apt-get install skype, and I've got skype :)

      They also distribute .DEB files from their website.

      Debian based distro's can also make use of something called automatix2 (http://www.getautomatix.com/) which can be used to install Windows apps (via CodeWeavers) even. I would not necessarily recommend it, but it is certainly something for Joe-user and
      Michael Dell uses it too :)

    7. Re:Within the retail sector... by bfree · · Score: 2, Interesting

      KDE's klik:// ... (... klik:// requires a kio-slave)

      Firstly klik isn't KDE's though it did start out dependant on some kde features. The initial k in the name reflects the knoppix roots, which reflects Klaus Knoppers name rather then the desktop environment he happened to also choose! I sometimes wonder what difference it would have made to klik's adoption if it's name hadn't started with either a k or a g!

      Secondly you don't need a kio-slave to use klik, you can use it from the command line if you want or via any browser which can be convinced to pass the name from a klik:/foo "uri" to the klik client. Installing the standard klik client will usually set you up so you can use a mozilla based browser to "install" applications from the klik site. Support for running the resulting file again is merely a case of what the standard installer automatically configures (I think just gnome/kde/xdg.desktops at present). Configuring or adding support for other environments should be trivial as again it only needs to supply the desired filename to a program.

      One of the benefits of klik in this context (though not one I care much about myself) is the ability to "package" other installers and without having to distribute any non-redistributable files, so klik can provide a wrapper to even run things like google* apps or realplayer without any risk to your base package managed system (though as a corrollory with limited integration into that system). There's even been repeated discussion of getting klik to provide windows applications via wine (some people have their own custom apps built like this including multiple IE versions or even Office with Crossover).

      Note the above isn't meant to imply that klik is perfect (klik2 should offer some significant advances and hopefully see klik getting packaged in more distros) but there are still plenty of use cases where it is the best answer e.g. no-root/read-only/portable software "installs".

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    8. Re:Within the retail sector... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Autopackage serves a very small niche - being cross-distro without being cross-platform (say, to Windows) or cross-arch (x86_64, ppc). I'm sure there are situations where you might want this (scientific apps?), but those are rare. Might as well go to Java; packaging is much simpler and you get total cross-platform for free.

    9. Re:Within the retail sector... by Spudds · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I spent some time yesterday reading up on ideastorm and the linux blogs of the dell linux people. What you're suggesting will happen in the future. Here's where they are now:

      Dell specifically states that they still consider linux for the "advanced user/hobbyist" and *not* for the average person yet. They believe that if you are savvy enough to use linux, you will have no problems finding it on their site. For that matter, Mr. Shuttleworth actually says something pretty similar; he said that Ubuntu is not quite ready for mainstream.

      Dell *is* working on getting linux on *all* their offerings, but they have to do a ton of work for each offering; work with vendors for driver/hardware support, test & fix issues with software, set up/prepare tech support, etc. They're banging them out but it takes time.

      I applaud our new pro-linux dell (they've actually been pro-linux for around 8+ years now). From what I read, they are doing a ton of work in pushing linux and they're doing it the right way. For instance, the linux crew at dell have made quite a few patches to the kernel, but if you were to get a pre-installed ubuntu machine from them, it would appear to be a vanilla installation. This is true because they don't patch the system on their end and roll it out like that, they actually send the patches to kernel.org and try to get them integrated into the kernel. /clap!

      They, according to their blogs and this interview, have and continue to do a ton of work with their vendor partners in getting them to contribute specs and/or create open-source drivers for hardware, which helps us all.

      From what I see on ideastorm and what the linux dev people are saying on their blogs and in interviews, they are doing the linux thing the only practical way it can be done; offer linux as-is with a big warning ("For Advanced Users!"), and actively work on making it better, so when it is ready for the average joe, they can sell it side-by-side with windows.

  3. okay... by quest(answer)ion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    all well and good, but linux or no, i still have serious reservations about buying a system from Dell.

    the negative experiences i've had with dell are really not linked to the OS; they're all hardware issues and service issues related to the hardware. show me that they'll support linux equally on the software side *and* that they've stepped up their hardware support, and this will be a bit more interesting.

    yeah, this is great news as far as the visibility of the linux community is concerned, but IMO, this changes very, very little about the pre-built PC market.

    i'm still gonna build my next linux box.

    --
    /. is what happens when geeks talk. get used to it.
  4. Well it IS ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Perhaps Dell should also consider selling these machines with a no OS option? Afterall, by the time a customer has gone to the trouble of replacing Gnome and removing Mono, they may as well have just imaged the drive themselves.

    Windows is a one size fits all solution, linux isn't and despite a minority 'turn it into windows' mentality (Hi Miguel) most long-term users think this is a good thing.

  5. Ubuntu Preloads by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a Ubuntu Preload Under warranty from Dell. It runs Feisty Fawn, I love it. I have one little problem. if you load up even a different Linux, you void your warranty, because they have a few proprietary drivers in the machines for some of the hardware, like the Win-modem. So. Here is an interesting question. How do you upgrade from Fiesty Fawn to Gutsy Gibbon without voiding your warranty?

  6. laptops as a loss leader for selling servers by nadaou · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Dell selling a few Linux-on-Laptops at the consumer end makes a lot of sense when you consider they want to grab a bigger chunk of the server market, where Linux holds a great portion of the market share. Get people used to the idea of Linux on Dell, then when they are in the market for a server they come back to what they know. The super reliable Linux experience makes Dell look good. Same angle as RedHat supporting FedoraCore.

    --
    ~.~
    I'm a peripheral visionary.
  7. What happened? by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm kind of interested in hearing what's caused the turnaround for Dell over the past year or two.

    Dell has more or less had a reputation of being deep in the pockets of Microsoft and Intel. It was no secret that Intel was giving Dell huge perks for not selling systems with AMD chips, and I'd be surprised if Microsoft wasn't offering similar perks for keeping Linux off of consumer desktops.

    Now, we're seeing dell open up a lot more options to consumers.

    So what happened? Did the payola from Intel and Microsoft stop? Was there a management shakeup? Are they trying to re-focus their image as a serious business vendor to step into the void left by IBM? Or are they just emphasizing "choice" to avoid losing any more ground to Apple (this theory strongly lends itself to their decision to distance themselves from MS because of the Vista backlash)

    Or maybe they're finally waking up to the fact that "nerd cred" seriously does sell computers. I would credit OS X's acceptance within the community as being instrumental to the sort of success Apple's been seeing over the past few years -- OS 7,8, and 9 left them with a pretty bad reputation that they needed to shed themselves of. When the guy who's fixed your PC multiple times recommends getting a mac, it lends some serious credibility to the brand. Given that Dell's a pretty generic brand, I doubt that anyone has serious qualms about buying from them, but it's a whole lot better than having a negative brand-reputation, or being badmouthed by everyone in the industry. (See also: Article yesterday about AOL losing $100 billion)

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    1. Re:What happened? by rainer_d · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > I'm kind of interested in hearing what's caused the turnaround for Dell over the past year or two.

      That's easy. AAPL ate their lunch.
      When the market grows say 10% and one of your competitors grows 30% and your own growth is flat (at best), you know you're just a couple of quarters away from a big disaster.
      You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.
      Growth is hardly in selling laptops to new customers (just like the total number of people drinking beer is not going to increase significantly).
      So, you've got to appeal to your customers and even lure customers from other companies away.
      As the hardware is commodity (except AAPL), and people didn't exactly run down Dell's (virtual) shop doors to get a laptop with Vista, there's only Linux left. Fortunately (for Dell, and Linux), somebody at Dell was smart enough to figure all this out in advance and their lineup is now pretty good.

      As the spokesperson says, it's more a question of perception than actual sales.

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  8. Re:Technically... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually I bough 3 Ubuntu Dells for my buseness...and, i formatted the hard drives and installed 3 xp licenses I had here. it was not ***so much cheaper*** than buying 3 xp dells directly, but I really didn't need 3 licenses more. So that's 3 chairs less, actually.

    Your point is perfect, though. How much running around and acreaming about those scurvey Pirates (Yaaaaarrrrr!) has Microsoft been doing lately, while tightening Windows Genuine disAdvantage. How many fleets of new machine orders with complementary Windows(tm) tax have resulted in redundant licenses that sit unused?

    Seems to me Linux on Dell has at least three big wins:

    • Less chance of site-license offices paying the Windows tax multiple times
    • Better hardware drivers for Linux, at least for components used by Dell
    • Better exposure for modern Linux (this is not your father's Slackware)
  9. Has anyone actually gone to them for the ubuntu pc by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just went there,are they kidding? They are charging MORE for a lower spec machine than you would get going Vista! 1Gb of RAM, the bottom of the line Core2Duo, and a lousy 80Gb hard drive,for 774? And I tried adding an extra Gb of RAM, which only added $60 on the Vista machine, added $125!!!. It is like they are doing everything they can to make sure it fails. Either they are afraid of making Bill mad, or they don't want to mess up the extra cash they are making from the crapware installs. But either way, you can't tell me that the price of memory jumps more than 100% just because it has Ubuntu on it.


    http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs


    Sadly,just like before Dell started, any geek with a brain will have to pay the Microsoft tax and wipe the drive if you want a Dell at a decent price. Unless they love Dell SO much they are willing to overpay for lower spec hardware just for the privilege of Ubuntu. The prices they are charging for what you are getting is just crazy.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  10. Who knew? by z80kid · · Score: 2, Interesting
    We have been supporting, testing, developing for, and selling Linux for 8+ years here at Dell, but before the Ubuntu announcement, a lot of people didn't know that we did any of that...

    Imagine that.

    Eight years, and I still have my choice of 1 - 14" laptop in the small business section. And I can't even get there from the main page unless I know enough to type in the Linux URL. And then I get a paragraph explaining that I might not want this unless I'm an advanced user and a link back to the Windows stuff.

    I'm surprised they weren't in the basement in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.