Why Can't I Buy A CableCARD Ready Set-Top Box?

Al E Usse writes "Ars Technica does a write up of the problems that were not solved by the July 1, 2007 integration ban on integrated security in your cable box. The goal was to get everyone on the same page by requiring standardized technology. Just the same, the cable companies aren't really playing ball. 'The companies who make the boxes don't seem interested in selling to consumers [and] cable companies still push their own branded devices.' The article covers some deep background on the whole CableCARD mess, and concludes with the current state of the market: 'Based on June 2007 figures from the cable industry, 271,000 CableCARDs have been deployed. That's an astonishingly low number. 58 percent of all US households with a TV subscribe to cable, according to the NCTA, which means that 65 million households have at least basic cable.'"

Comments

Bullhockey

[palladiate]

I'm the inventory coordinator for a cable company. All of our new DVRs and Digital boxes run off of cable cards. If I pop open the card cover, inside is the exact same cable card we give customers. It's even handy when we want to test a new box, we just use an already addressed card instead of addressing a whole new box. It isn't cableCard technology that's the problem. It works with our system just fine. The problem happens to be crappy STBs that don't conform to CC specifications. Motorola, Cisco, and MS all make boxes that work just fine on our system with our on-demand and and program guide. Now, whether they have better access to documentation from Cable Labs, I'll never know. But it's BS that it's somehow the technology's fault.

Re:Bullhockey

[malfunct]

I don't know if the tech in my house had a clue or not (from Comcast in Seattle area) when he was installing my cablecards in my TivoHD (because 1 card was defective and the other just wouldn't activate the day I tried to self install) but he said that Comcast was implementing seprable security using a technology that WAS NOT CableCard. How is that any better than integrated security? I think the seprable security requirement, if it can be satisfied with a non standard system or even one that consumers aren't allowed to buy on thier own, is a total joke.

That said the other issue I have is that CableCards are only allowed in approved "closed" devices. There needs to be a way that I'm allowed to install a CableCard tuner in whatever device that needs it, my personal computer most of all, without having to do it exactly the way that the industry wants me to. I'm not a pirate, I just want to be able to watch at some future time on the PC of my choice (I know many people only have 1 but I have 4 or 5 in the house at any one time all capable of displaying the content if allowed) or on a mobile device. Heck I'm even fine if they somehow figured out how to force me to watch the commercials as long as I could watch them when and where I wanted to. It doesn't seem like the lack of cablecard tuners in unapproved pc's is slowing the piracy of TV much so why spend so much effort to do it?

Re:Bullhockey

[palladiate]

No, I did. I saw it on Ars earlier. I'm responding to the the summary that blamed us for not playing ball. It blames the cable companies for not playing ball. That's BS. We'll sell you any box we provide. Do you really want to spend $1200 on an SA HD-DVR? Nobody else does, that's why we aren't selling them.

The problem is that there are no GOOD consumer devices. There just aren't. We can't help that. We aren't in the STB business.

Re:Bullhockey

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason we blame you (cable companies as a whole) for playing not ball, is because of your inability to come to terms with modern customer demands and your CableLabs crew (and yes, YOURS...CableLabs was created and is funded by the big cable companies) and their issues. Part of it may be because their rules are regulated by what they feel are the content providers' demands, but they are complicit in this as well.

Okay, you could sell us a $1200 SA DVR. But why are there not more companies that just make a device that is just a tuner that takes a card? Why not go to Best Buy and pick up a 3rd party box for $80 like we can a DOCSIS cable modem? Why won't you allow bidirectional devices to be manufactured and sold? Because CL and the CO's artificially hamper the possibility.

As an example, I will give a list of the issues that have arisen since TiVo has released their S3/HD line of digital cable tuners, which are, as far as I know, the only mass-consumer CableCARD tuners out there (that aren't built into a TV):

1. CableCARDS have a high rate of failure. While there can be issues with the TiVo units, yes, this has gone back since HDTV's have begun adding CC slots. The CO's response? "It's your device." No, it isn't my device. If it was my device, then why, after going through a stack of 5-6 cards, does one finally work (in any of my CC-capable devices, even?) Either the CableCARD spec is poorly designed, or they are poorly manufactured and you don't care, or you are storing them under a leaky bucket in the back of the warehouse hoping that nobody will ask for one.

2. The TiVo obeys your copying and recording restrictions, as demanded by CL and the CO's, offering the copy-once, copy-many, copy-none flags and their ilk. Many of your cable boxes do not. That means that my TiVo, as purchased, does not provide me as much service as your box does, because it follows the rules that you require, even though you do not follow them yourself.

3. VOD/PPV/SDV all require bidirectional communications between the device and the head end to handle the channel assignments. Your cable boxes can all do this, because CableCARD is capable of bidirectional communications, and so is your device. My HDTV and TiVo cannot handle these things, because they are not bidirectional, because CableLabs refuses to certify a third-party device with bidirectional communication capability.

4. So why do they have to be certified? See the initial hostility to the S3's release. There are forums filled with people who were told that the cable company would never provide CableCARDS for the TiVo at first until people started pointing out FCC regulation (with TiVo's help on 3-way calling sometimes!) that required them to allow access to certified devices, which the S3 certainly was!

5. Initially, many cable companies (and some still do) would charge over-the-top fees for the S3, because it required two CableCARDS. Their argument? "It has two tuners, it is two devices, so you have to pay an additional Digital Outlet Fee." The problem? Those same cable companies provided their own dual-tuner DVR that did not require an additional Outlet Fee.

Also, those $1200 DVR's that you could sell us? I have never seen one that wasn't slow, buggy, temperamental, and covered with ads that took up over half of my channel guide every time I tried to pick something to watch. The TiVo is a good consumer device, one that has already been hampered by the cable providers' desire to not play fair, as demanded by FCC regulation. Sure, it has its bugs, but has been a far better device than any cable-provided DVR or tuner that I've seen. And if you really want to wonder why people aren't making devices that work like your STB units, even if they are cheaper, look at the OCAP requirements for "two-way cable devices".

(The TiVo is also a hell of a lot cheaper than $1200)

Re:Bullhockey

[DCheesi]

If these boxes cost so much, how are you subsidizing the cost for all the boxes rented to customers? $10 or $15 bucks a month wouldn't allow you break even in a reasonable amount of time.

This is just like

[MeditationSensation]

the cell phone companies. There's no real techincal reason that we can't have cool, open OSes for our phones. They just want to lock us in so that we have to buy their stupid wallpaper, ring tones, etc.

Re:Why not TiVo?

[LordKazan]

Not everyone wants to pay tivo $16/month - mythtv users can buy a YEARS worth of listings for $20 - plus i already have 4 tuners (3 analog, 1 qam256/atsc) and 500GB of harddrive

Re:The more critical question for PVR builders

[Wesley Felter]

There is one CableCard tuner card from ATI; by Googling you can find a ton of articles explaining why CableLabs won't allow you to buy it (unless you buy a complete PC).

Why would I want it?

[Steve525]

Most of the article describes how difficult it is to replace your cable company's basic STB with your own basic STB. It admits that there are options for DVRs (Series 3 and HD Tivo) and you can get cable card enabled TV.

My conclusion is the reason you can't replace the cable company's box with your own is that no one would want to. This isn't a great conspiracy, it's just that the STB manufacturers aren't going to try to sell a product that no one wants. Why would anyone want to replace one box with another box that does the same thing? The only motivation I could envision is cost, but the rental fees for the boxes aren't usually that high.

For a consumer, using the cable card to use a better DVR or to get rid of the STB entirely is worthwhile. So, the market has responded by providing these options. However, there's no motivation for someone to choose a different basic STB than the one the cable companies provide.

Re:Try buying a TV that supports CableCard

[smooth wombat]

Trust me, 200+ channels is a pain to flip through trying to find something to watch.

No it's not. If I had such a service (and I have no intention of doing so), I'd do what I do now with my ~70 basic cable: block out channels. Religious channels? Begone! Shopping channels? Don't see them. Ad channels? Yeah right. Golf? Get real.

By the time I had blocked out all the channels I didn't want in the first place, I'd probably be down to about the same number I have now. 200 channels? No problem.

Unless you're now going to tell me that using digital cable/set top boxes/whatever, that one can't block channels. If that's the case, then there is absolutely no way I'll be getting any such service.

Re:Well, analog is good enuf...

[slaingod]

Just get an HDHomeRun which will decode unencrypted QAM signals on most cable and stream it to any system on the network.

Re:Try buying a TV that supports CableCard

[Anonymous Coward]

We give away an on-screen programing guide that wouldn't be available with third-party hardware.

Well, if you gave out the specs to the programming guide, then it would be available to third-party hardware, now wouldn't it? This sort of "we have extra features only available on our box" crap is what pisses me off about digital cable.

This is 2007...

[technopinion]

It really is inexcusable that there is no way for me to get HDTV into my HTPC without using a goddamn OTA card with a big antenna on the roof.

but oddly enough, shows work fine from bittorrent

[jollyreaper]

I swear, these companies have got to get their shit together. Make it easy and people will come. Right now, it's still less of a headache to pirate shit and have total control of how it's used. That, and don't be dicks about what you're charging for the service. Back 5 years ago, hunting down a full run of a show took ages. Want an anime? Try hunting down 26 episodes of mixed format, quality, and availability. Good luck. But it's worth the time if the jerkwads are charging $250 for the series. But some shows are out on DVD now for as low as $40 or $50 for an entire run. Wow! And for live action TV, I've seen some going for as low as $25 for a season. Nice. But just try and buy that stuff electronically, it's DRM'd out the ass and the prices are no cheaper than for physical media. WTF? No distribution cost, no shelving fee, no gas involved, and we're paying full freight? I don't think so.

Re:FCC is useless, Congress is useless, see a pate

[dal20402]

Quit bitching and get out and vote.

We did that in 2006. It had no effect.

As long as the bulk of voters are easily manipulable through expensive TV ads, the ultimate loyalty of politicians will be to those who fund the expensive TV ads.