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Valve Locking Out Gamers Who Buy Orange Box Internationally
Via Opposable Thumbs, a post on the Consumerist site notes that some enterprising gamers who bought the Orange Box in a territory different than the one they lived (to save a few bucks) have now found themselves unable to play the game. "One user, Todd, explains that thousands of crafty North American gamers looking for a deal have 'bought the product (and hence, the serial numbers) at well known international game stores' at a significant markdown. Activation of the purchased titles went off without a hitch. However, Valve apparently has taken issue with the region-specificity of some international versions and has begun locking out accounts of those living in North America, but owning international serial numbers with the message that the purchased game is in the 'incorrect territory.'" Worse, folks who tried to 'make it right' by buying a local copy have found they're basically SOL. I've been a big fan of the Steam concept since it launched, but this is the sort of thing you need to communicate to your users before you sting them.
Worse, folks who tried to 'make it right' by buying a local copy have found they're basically SOL.
"Basically?" I've been following this on the CAG forums and if you try to enter another serial after you've been locked out, Steam won't accept it because you "already own the game." Since there's no way to remove the other serial, it means that you're not basically SOL...you're just SOL, plain and simple.
Goo goo g'joob.
After digging around on the Steam forums a bit, I'd like to clear up some misconceptions that people seem to be getting.
1) Orange Box purchased through Steam (online) is NOT REGION LOCKED IN ANY WAY.
2) Codes from retail boxes in America, the EU and most other places are NOT REGION LOCKED.
3) Codes from Thailand and Russia ARE REGION LOCKED. This is done because Steam games are sold in those countries at a tiny fraction of the US retail cost. The boxes are marked (in the appropriate language) that they keys will not work in other countries.
In other words, people are getting "burned" because they bought keys from companies that buy the Thai/Russian retail boxes, opens them up, and sell you the codes for several times what they paid, which is still cheaper than the rest of the world pays. They companies know that the keys don't work anywhere else, so the people are getting basically scammed by the companies selling them keys, not Valve.
They're not military servicemen living overseas or families on vacation in Europe, they're cheapasses who fall for a scam because they're too eager to get a "great deal".
Karma: Contrapositive
I don't follow your argument. If you want an overclocking, nuclear-powered, death dealing gamer rig, that doesn't mean you still can't be frugal. Frugal is not the same thing as being cheap. If a person wants the functionality of a $1000 video card, has the means to procure it, but it aware they can do it for less money, they usually will. If a game is $50 in their local market and $30 online overseas, why is it so terrible of them to do that?
You as the end consumer are NOT bound by agreements between other people. The place where you bought it from may have sold something to you in contravention of their contracts with THEIR partners, but that's not your problem... or it SHOULDN'T be your problem... and if law and/or reality contradict that, then the law and/or reality is in error and needs fixing.
I was recommending using a charge back *if* a vendor locks you out of your paid-for software, not for any other reason. I full understand Valve's reasons for keeping this policy, as a charge-back will (for the most part) indicate that an account has been paid for with a stolen card.
:) If Valve don't let you buy something one way, buy it another way, or don't buy from them at all if you don't like the price. Just don't let any vendor take your money and then deny you what you've paid for.
As for the other guy who said "this is exactly what Valve wants, to make you pay more", well suck it up
Like I said, I think Valve sell some brilliant games for cheap, but I won't let them (or any other software vendor) take away what I've paid for without a fight.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Not only are many EULA's supposedly unenforcable (I am neither a lawyer, nor caring enough to research properly
Multiple appellate courts have held that EULAs are enforceable. It's pretty much set in stone now. If you want examples, just ask. I'm a law student and I've read about 4 cases on this subject this semester.
Sheesh, I guess CD's are really really expensive to burn in the UK! There's no excuse for this, it's just greed.
While it does appear to be true that we are targeted as a high-profit market (car manufacturers call us the Golden Island), there *are* valid reasons for *some* of the additional cost against the US prices:
- Exchange rates. Sterling happens to be really strong right now but companies can't bet on it not going back to $1.4 to the £1
- Tax. A common excuse, but remember the US prices quoted usually don't include sales tax whereas the UK prices almost always do, and the UK rate is also higher.
- It costs more to do business in the UK. Stricter trading standards, stronger consumer rights and different employment laws all benefit UK residents but all that doesn't come for free.
The Helios Labs H2000.
The H4000 is similar, but goes up to 1080p, whereas the H2000 goes to 1080i/720p. I have a 720p screen, so I chose the H2000.
They don't have a presence in the US, instead shipping stuff in from Canada. I think that is to get around DVD licenscing issues.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
I have no intention of defending this company for shutting off users who bought their product from an international dealer, because that is what "international" means. They can sell internationally.
However, your statement isn't in general true. There are, for many products, tariffs and import duties that make it more expensive to sell in certain markets, and likewise less expensive in others. I was once almost charged $25 per case for "camera cases" by an over-zealous customs agent because they were aluminum, and that is the import duty for "aluminum camera cases". It was an incredible hour out of my life, hearing that "cardboard" cases were duty free (so he wouldn't charge me duty on the boxes that the cameras themselves were shipped in). I finally got through to him that these were not "camera cases" as in "put my expensive Nikon camera in a carrying case", but "metal housings" for the OEM camera circuit boards that were in the same shipment. Sheesh.
Also, the distributor's costs in another country may be lower (lower wages for the wage slaves, etc.) so the distributor may mark the wholesale price up less.
And finally, the differing regulations regarding radio emissions (as one example) may make it much more costly to certify a piece of equipment in the US than in some other country, and the other country may get a slightly different, less expensive version of a product because it doesn't have to be as well shielded. Or it may have different/limited features due to differing laws.
Violating Regional Licensing or whatever cannot possibly "hurt" a company, if the company would lose money selling it in the US at $10 a copy, there is no way they are going to sell it for $10 a copy in Russia. At worst the company won't make as much profit as they want.
It would hurt the local distributor, who may have had to purchase in lots of 100 to get his discount, when an overseas dealer who signed a contract to sell only in Europe undercuts his price in the US. Or a foreign (to the US) dealer sells radio equipment that has different features, and the user expects the US repair facilities to be able to fix it when it breaks, under warranty. And in the latter case, the manufacturer may have legal issues even though his dealer is the one importing non-FCC type-accepted products.
Valve has violated the Uniform Commercial Code as well as numerous state and federal laws. No amount of legalese or EULAs will allow a company to willingly violate the laws and scam consumers in this manner. My advice to any victims of this scam is to do a chargeback on their credit card and to file a complaint with their local Attorney General's Office as well as the Federal Trade Commission.
'Cept games take a lot of money to produce, beyond the cost of minting CDs. If it costs X number of dollars to develop a game, they have to sell X / ( ( consumer price of copy ) - ( cost of manufacture ) ) to break even. They then have to make enough of a profit to continue turning out games in the future, and satisfy investors (assuming it's a public company).
This just reminds me of how Valve moved Counterstrike to Steam and required us to register with the CD Keys. Unfortunately, their CD keys were not unique and if someone registered with your CD key before you then you were out of luck! To hell with them.
What about military members? We are assigned all over the world for up to years at a time. What about the poor guy who buys a US license and is stationed in Korea or England? Or is in Korea, buys a copy in Korea, and then gets stationed back in the US?
What about guys who deploy elsewhere?
Region dependency is just as stupid as most other DRM restrictions. Maybe even worse, since they're explicitly disallowing people from using legit originals. That sucks. Bad move.
I was going to buy the orange box but I'm in the military and might have to move or deploy before Valve fixes their rectal-cranium inversion on this issue. No way in hell will I buy something that could be disabled just because I move.
Shit out of luck.
It's against Slashdot moderation rules to mod people troll just because you disagree with them.