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Leopard Upgraders Getting "Blue Screen of Death"

Posted by kdawson on from the they're-called-haxies-for-a-reason dept.

Z80xxc! writes "Some Mac users upgrading to Apple's new Leopard operating system are encountering long delays on reboot — an experience they liken to the Windows 'Blue Screen of Death.' While some of those upgrading were able to access their computer after waiting for as long as several hours, others were forced to do a complete reinstall. Some suspect that a framework called 'Application Enhancer' by Unsanity LLC may be causing the problem, but there has been no official word from Apple at this point."

18 of 542 comments (clear)

  1. Archive and install by sagefire.org · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Archive and install!

    It's the safest way to upgrade. Yes, it's less convenient, but way better than finding out that some 3rd party tweak is not compatible the hard way...

    1. Re:Archive and install by anagama · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oddly, when I tried to upgrade today, I got no option for that. My only option was to reformat and and install. I'd already backed everything up, but I didn't want to deal with a new install if I didn't have to -- I decided to just do a test install on an old firewire ipod.

      Anyway, I'm a bit non-plussed with Leopard. The "stacks" thing is really lame. Used to be you could put a folder in the same spot and get a menu -- nice way to navigate through applications, particularly for those who don't like a giant slab of apps but prefer to have them organized by type, e.g., networking, graphics, games, etc. The stacks are only one level deep -- if you click on a folder, it just opens in Finder. This is very non-ideal.

      The real deal killer is X11 though -- totally borked. If you launch it from the applications/utilities folder, it doesn't even launch. You have launch it from it's actual location under /usr -- and even then it makes two icons in the dock and if you have the right hardware (like my 1st gen macbook), the cursor turns yellow inside apps which essentially makes it invisible against a white background. There was a fix for this for Tiger so I tried it out. After that, X11 wouldn't even launch a terminal. Way lame.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    2. Re:Archive and install by jamar0303 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure doesn't feel that way- I can't drag over my whole \Program Files folder from one computer to another and have everything work, whereas I can do so with Mac.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    3. Re:Archive and install by Allador · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're right in that the end-result in the windows world is nowhere near as nice as what you describe. It sure would be nice.

      This is a combination of a couple things.

      1. Bad ISV developers. A surprising percentage of the developers for windows software dont have a clue what they're doing, or how to properly develop software for the windows platform. It's well documented, trivial (and free) to become an ISV partner with Microsoft, and this documentation is available without even doing that.

      So you get developers dropping stuff into various directories unnecessarily, or storing things in the registry, which is unnecessary.

      It is entirely possible to write windows apps that are completely portable, that you can just copy the flat between systems and it works just fine. Many of the open source software apps are done like this. Take FileZilla client, for example. Or 7-Zip. All the DLLs are in the same directory as the executable, and it doesnt (by default) use the registry to store settings.

      These apps could be made even better by storing per-user settings in the user profile home.

      2. COM. If you need to make components that are part of your app available to other components in the system, then you'll need to register them with COM. This goes into the registry, and is a per-machine setting.

      Note however, that since XP there are some neat things you can do to avoid even this in some use-cases, called registration free COM (IIRC). Again, it is done by having your files in the same directory, and having a manifest.

      3. Shell integration. If you need to have your app integrate with the shell, that will require some sort of 'setup' to be run and to do that. However, as an alternative, you could (and many apps do) just check the shell integration on startup.

      4. System Integration. Any apps that need to install drivers, or hook into the system in a deeper level, say into the network stack. If this is the case, you're instantly non-portable.

      So you're right, the vast majority of apps on windows are not designed to be machine portable. But thats a conscious choice by the developers, and is not in any way required by the platform. MS makes it quite clear how to manage that, if you want it, and if the use-case of your software makes it possible.

  2. Re:jesus h christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Using APE is an insanity of the first order anyway. Dealing with Unsanity's refusal to help is what made me dump all their products.

    Me: "Hi APE is causing crashes on my mac"
    Unsanity: "No it's not, it can't. This is why.... "
    Me: "OK, that makes sense thanks"

    two weeks later

    Me: "Hi, APE definitely is causing crashes on my mac"
    Unsanity: "No, it can't be, because... "
    Me: "I just did a fresh install. it survived multiple reboots in its completely standard configuration. I installed APE, now X, Y and Z all crash"
    Unsanity: "Well it's not APE, because APE does ... "
    Me: "I removed APE, and instantly it's working again"
    Unsanity: "Well it can't be APE, because ... "
    Me: "Fuck you"

  3. Mod parent up by phillymjs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is hardly the first time Unsanity's stuff has caused problems with a new version of OS X. If people are too damned dumb to uninstall their unsupported-hack add-ons before upgrading, that's their problem, not Apple's.

    And no matter how much better OS X is than Windows w/r/t the "it just works" aspect, things can and do still go wrong sometimes. A little pre-upgrade basic system maintenance never hurts (at least repair permissions and verify/repair the target disk from Disk Utility on the Leopard CD), and neither does making a bootable clone of the system in case you have to revert.

    ~Philly

    1. Re:Mod parent up by GarfBond · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Not everyone knows about APE. I, for one, found APE on my system after wondering why my logins were so damned slow. Hint: update_prebinding was being run on every user logon because that was the only workaround that Unsanity decided to use for some retarded bug of theirs. Nevermind that this slows user logon down by about 5 minutes each time! However, I had never installed APE ever in my life, so how did it get there?

      Logitech mouse/keyboard drivers install them for you, without asking or telling you! It's not entirely the user that's to blame - even a reasonably careful user won't notice surreptitious installs like this. Logitech's method of bundling it is vaguely like spyware, I'd say.

  4. Here's the fix by nilbog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can either give up on an upgrade and do a fresh install or an archive/install. If you want to be able to upgrade, try this to manually get rid of APE: Please note that this does involve manipulation of files from the root prompt. This is not for the faint-of-heart, or those who are unfamiliar with the UNIX file system/command structure. 1. Reboot into single-user mode (hold Cmd-S while booting machine) 2. Follow the directions OSX gives you when you get to the prompt (I think these were them - just type the two commands it tells you to): fsck -fy / /sbin/mount -uw / 3. Remove the following files: rm -rf /Library/Preference Panes/Application Enhancer.prefpane rm -rf /Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework rm -rf /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application Enhancer.bundle rm -rf /Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist 4. Exit, to continue booting normally exit

    --
    or else!
  5. Re:Java 6 NOT included in Leopard by ValentineMSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It would be wonderful if it worked that way. However, Apple has decided that they (not Sun) will be the source of Java for Mac boxes. This moderately irritates me in that I'm a Java developer, and would like to be able to test with Java 6. So, to do so, I have to keep a copy of Parallels and Ubuntu around.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
  6. How has Apple addressed this? by argent · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think it points out a larger problem that apple has, for the most part, addressed - why can't the OS come bundled with "all the little utilities and applications" you've come to depend on?

    How has Apple addressed this when two of the Haxies I use, as well as two kernel modules I've installed, are there to work around problems Apple themselves are responsible for?

  7. meh by zonker · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I don't doubt that Leopard has some bugs. Probably even many of them. I did an "Upgrade Install" and have a fair amount of 3rd party apps installed including some utilities. Knowing I might have problems I disabled several of them before installing and others I looked up to see if they support Leopard. Of course a good many didn't have any info on Leopard yet.

    However I would bet there are a good many people who have existing problems with their system and don't know it or have applications installed that they don't really understand could be dangerous. I'm willing to bet though that this is more likely to be a third party issue than a Leopard issue just from my own experience... but who knows. Like most of these types of problems with any new OS (Windows, OS X, Linux, what-have-you) I doubt that it is widespread. IMHO headlines like this one should be considered flame-bait unless someone can conclusively prove Apple's at fault.

    --

    Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

  8. Why Linux doesn't have this problem. by argent · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You have a bunch of people who don't have anything to do with the author of an application writing code that mass-modifies dozens of applications, libraries, etc., essentially doing binary patching on the running OS.

    I've done that as well. I mean, binary patching the actual OS, not just applications running in userland. Sometimes you gotta do it.

    If you knew what GNU libc does to try and avoid having to make people rebuild applications when upgrading libraries, you'd run screaming. They have code in there to look for libraries at runtime and dynamically load different variants of other libraries depending on what you're using and what you have installed. The glibc team has people who do nothing but look for cases where they have to adapt for different libraries and different kernel versions.

    The reason that you don't have more of a problem on Linux is that there's no central Steve Jobs for Linux who dictates the way the GUI works, so if you don't like the way Enlightenment or fvwm or Windowmaker behaves, you can change it. The downside of this is that there's no single framework you can modify or replace to make global changes. There used to be, back when everyone used Athena Widgets, and you could replace libXaw with libXaw95 to get a Windows 95 look, or with libXawSTeP to get a NeXTSTeP look. Now, instead, you get Battluin GUIs between the Gnome and KDE yobbos.

    And there's all kinds of Windows hacks that do similar stuff to APE, from development tools to simple user interface enhancements. And, yes, they can cause problems and break in new versions of the OS.

    What Unsanity has done is to create a framework that makes this kind of thing relatively safe compared to having everyone build their own. Unfortunately since they're not at Apple or someone that Apple is willing to support (because they are undoing the things that The Steve has decreed) there's an unhealthy passive-aggressive relationship between Apple and Unsanity that doesn't exist between (say) Debian and the glibc team.

    And, yes, they should be disabling themselves on upgrade. And Apple should look at the things that people are using Haxies for and make the things they are trying to get rid of optional.

    The other thing is, on Windows people simply don't put their trust in having an upgrade work. They do clean installs. And they wait on upgrading Windows until this kind of thing gets shaken out.

    1. Re:Why Linux doesn't have this problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Linux does have problems like this. I used to work on a project that required the use of kernel modules to get access to performance related data structures in the kernel to make them visible in user space. Like APE, this was an "unsupported" practice, since I was poking bits of the kernel not guaranteed to be safe for third-party software. So, frequently new kernel releases would change symbol names or twiddle the layout of structures, breaking my modules. Last I checked, this is still a problem tracking with new kernel releases.

      There is nothing about Linux that makes it any different than any other OS -- if you touch things not meant to be touched, your code will break. It's as simple as that.

  9. Re:Funny by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So why doesn't Apple perform testing the upgrade install with APE installed and fix the issues or atleast warn people before releasing the OS if this breaking happens every time?

    Screw that. The same logic led Microsoft into the backward compatibility hell it's currently mired in. I think Apple's policy of "if you deliberately break your system then don't blame us" is inconvenient for some users in the short term but much better for all users in the long haul.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  10. unplug external USB drives.... by vaporland · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Unplug any external USB hard drives, especially if they USED to have a system and now only contain data, but you never reformatted them, and only erased files via the Trash.

    Try rebooting afterwards, and you'll start up just fine. People really waited HOURS?!? Wow, what a bunch of Geniurds....

    It's the same boot issue that occurs when a windows machine has USB set to boot ahead of the CD ROM or HD, and you put an empty keychain in the USB slot - it hangs.

    I had this problem, as soon as I rebooted with no USB HD, things went fine. This is, of course, on an Intel Mac...

    On a Core (non-2) Duo, the wireless networking driver for Boot Camp will recognize your Airport Extreme 802.11g as an 802.11n, but since it isn't, you will not have wireless connectivity.

    This will show up if you have a Core (non-2) Duo and an Airport Extreme with 802.11n support, since the Airport device always broadcasts the 802.11n signal.

    --
    Ask Me About... The 80's!
  11. Services, dude by _merlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is one exception to that rule: the /Applications, /Library/Services, ~/Applications and ~/Library/Services folders are scanned for NeXTstep service provider applications at login. These won't be recognised anywhere else on the disk. Now this isn't the Finder's fault, and LaunchServices (which is responsible for associating files and URLs with applications) is unaffected by it, but it is something to be aware of. You won't get Services menu items from an application if it's in the wrong place.

  12. Come on Kdawson by Ilgaz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    MAcfixit.com broke the FAKE story, a FUD of "APE responsible for this". I have even risked my VT Pro, $50 year account and called the editor openly to resign.

    This thing turned out to be a password hash issue related to accounts created back in 10.2 and never changed. Documented here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306840

    APE has nothing to do with it. In fact, Unsanity recommends latest APE to be on OS while upgrading to Leopard since believe or not, APE is not just couple of themes or pointers, there are many companies using that functionality and their software may break when linked library is not there.

    It doesn't change the fact that APE will be ignored by Leopard btw.

    Macfixit has even surpassed itself and was openly called "Depictable" http://www.macjournals.com/news/despicable.html because of their horrible FUD mongering, calling people to ERASE and INSTALL and after CNET buyout, some people think they do it on purpose to make people afraid to use OS X or Mac.

    If there is apple.slashdot.org, it should have better hand picked stories, no fanboy idiotic stuff, no "maccies are idiots" stuff, just "news for Mac nerds".

    This story was sitting on Digg.com for hours and even couldn't make to being popular (like slashdot accepted) because people simply didn't buy it, especially APE reason.

    We rarely get new non-ipod etc. stuff on Apple.slashdot.org and I wished the second one after Leopard shipment wasn't FUD with false information.

  13. Re:APE is *not* a kernel mod. by Ilgaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    my bad. APE acts like a kernel mod which is why I think of it as one. It lets you do things you "shouldn't" be able to do without a kernel mod by playing some funky games. That is where its safety comes from. It is user mode, uses Input Manager functionality to do things which normally would require kernel mods or plain old binary hacking.

    Apple removed the functionality which makes APE work by the reason of one anonymous idiot coding a horribly coded Trojan horse abusing Input Managers.

    I don't know if US law supports it but Unsanity should sue Macfixit or a similar FUD spreading company for $1. Let them prove APE does anything bad to OS scientifically or pay the $1.

    As I am preparing for Leopard on this system, I uninstalled APE (Unsanity recommends not doing it) and see how "evil" "performance killing", "system crashing" thing APE was. No, the idiotically coded Applications still crash with trivial reasons, System still boots in exact time which it booted before and I am staring at Mr. Jobs favorite widget graphics knowing the fact that I will stare at them for a long time until Unsanity codes shapeshifter for leopard.

    My FreeBSD/Debian/Slackware using nerd friends and system admins happily changes how their desktop looks but on a $190 (family license) OS, I am not allowed. I can't even change mouse pointer which I did back on Windows 95 and even X11 on AIX allows!

    Apple invited thousands or hundreds of thousands of people who aren't happy with their desktop look to binary hack their OS resource files. That is what they did instead of removing InputManagers from home directory or secure them.