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Why Card Copying May Not Ruin Eye of Judgment

Posted by Zonk on from the vigilant-eye-always-watching dept.

Last week it was revealed that the cards used in Sony's interesting new CCG/Videogame hybrid Eye of Judgement can easily be copied and reused. The large symbols on the cards that register with the game also make them prime candidates for counterfeiting. It may sound dire, but weizur writes with a link to a post on the Zen and Games site that theorizes this may not be the end of the world for the game. "Ultimately the rules of the game change. No longer is it a game about collecting and skill begins to play a much larger role in the game in the long run since personal wealth and ability to acquire cards becomes a non-factor. What Magic has taught us though is that this isn't really a bad thing and much fun can still be had when the game becomes a game of skill and less a game of chance, this is of course in theory as Eye of Judgment probably doesn't have the depth and finesse that Magic has and ultimately the game design of Eye of Judgment and it's ability to be a fun game will be the ultimate test."

14 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. I would play it myself... by physicsboy500 · · Score: 5, Funny

    but quite frankly, the eye scares the crap out of me.

    --
    The original generic sig.
    1. Re:I would play it myself... by FinchWorld · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure does.

      --
      "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
  2. Did I miss something? by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When did Magic become a game of skill instead of personal wealth?

    1. Re:Did I miss something? by toleraen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Probably around 1998, for me at least. The group of friends I played with tended to use proxies for the more expensive cards. It was a lot cheaper, and more fun, to try out new deck ideas that way. No point in spending lots of cash on the real cards just to test out a deck theme, only to find that the idea didn't work as well as you wanted.

  3. Re:Gimmick by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Millions of Magic players (and the various anime-based TCG games, for the younger set) seem to be just fine with the idea. It just happens that the camera setup lets you play online (you can play just fine in person with real cards only)

    --
    "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
  4. Uh...that's what a CCG is. by apparently · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I can't possibly see people wanting to buy a game then hundreds of cards just for the fun of it. Surely once you buy the game that's all you should need, instead this way you have to keep buying every few months or your cards are too weak and useless in such a cutthroat place like online gaming.

    That's the CCG model, just updated for online-play. Having to buy the latest cards hasn't made M:TG die.

    Having cards actually be rare is a good thing, if they could pull it off. Games get boring when everyone has access to the same spells and same powerdecks. Sure, the even-playing field means that there's now a skill-requirement (a good thing, as well), but only at the expense of variety. Too bad R&D didn't give the idea more than 2 seconds of thought.

    1. Re:Uh...that's what a CCG is. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      even Magic "rare" cards aren't really that rare when the print run is millions. Magic R&D stopped designing sets for "rare" collectors a while ago. Now they design sets and rarity per "box" so that sealed pack play is balanced... the competition circuit will get whatever they want because they're willing to pay 100x cost to get it.

      The better plan for an online game might be to use skill or exclusivity as short term ways of varying the game. Doll out exclusive cards by mail and balance them by zip code, it would take a few weeks before they spread to common play. If you used them for tournaments or such the time (to being copied) would be long enough to work. Or go to a WoW type thing where you have to play a "character" and build skill points online before you can use certain cards.... and like WoW as you gain specialization, you limit options to be "all powerful". Find ways to make play fun right NOW, and then release to collectors later after letting the cool factor of the players run it's course.

    2. Re:Uh...that's what a CCG is. by rev_dru · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The rarity of cards has never stopped anyone from net-decking. It has just forced them to choose between spending money and losing. Typically, when you build a magic deck, you don't look at what cards you have, but what cards are legal in the current format. When you're done, you go out and get the cards that you are missing. Theoretically, if every player had access to every card in the game, they would probably still play the exact same decks.

      In online games, casual players are mixed in with more serious players, so you play against tournament-style decks even in casual play. This will put pressure on the casual player to get the money rares. From my perspective, having all of the cards available to everyone will not change the decks people are playing at all. It will only make the game cheaper for the players.

    3. Re:Uh...that's what a CCG is. by rkanodia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The strategy in a game should come from choosing your cards correctly, not from buying tons of cards looking for a game winner.

      I used to play Magic, and this exact criticism is why I don't anymore. I have no problem with the idea of deck construction, but making 'rare' cards more powerful just allows the creators of the game to cash in on an artificial scarcity of their own design. The whole thing about 'rarity is designed for Limited play, where players don't bring their own decks' is a canard, because Limited and Constructed players alike use the same packs of cards to play. If rarity were really about making Limited a better format, you would just be able to spend $40 and get a big box with enough of each card to be able to make any valid deck for Constructed play, and then Limited events would use the same packs that they do now.

      I'd happily play a 'CCG' based on slightly more 'traditional' board/card game economics (fixed price for fixed cards), but interestingly enough, there are none that are popular. I daresay that the thrill of opening a pack and finding out what cards you got is a big hook for new players, who are then sort of gradually introduced into additional levels of indoctrination as they become normalized to their previous levels. It's sort of like Scientology - just as no one would join the Church of Scientology if spending $10,000 to read 'OT 3' were the first step, no one would start playing Magic if the first step was to spend $400 on a 'tournament competitive' deck, which will require $100 of new 'tech' every two months or so for as long as you want to play. But you know, that first packs of cards is pretty cool, and then you start buying more cards once you see that your friends are able to do better by playing different cards, and then you read about this cool combo engine on some website, and then you learn how a deck full of dual-lands would make it so much more possible for you to add a splash of Blue, and then...

    4. Re:Uh...that's what a CCG is. by morari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Having to buy the latest cards hasn't made M:TG die. No, but constantly banning cards in order to FORCE you to upgrade your entire collection sure has turned away more than enough people that I know who were once into it. That is Wizards of the Coast though. They have an almost painful reputation of such underhanded tactics across a slew of gaming lines. It's really too bad that the Call of Cthulhu CCG changed to a non-collectible format, as it is the best I've ever played (even nudging past Netrunner by an inch or two).
      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  5. Re:Good For Players, Bad For Sony by AuraSeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    However, this absolutely sucks for Sony, who is now only going to make money through the sale of the Eye and the game itself.

    Oh, how will they ever survive? No video game company has ever made a profit just by selling video games!

  6. UID by Gunslinger47 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Would it have been too expensive to print unique IDs on every card? Card copying is only an issue for online play, after all. Make the UID a hash that gets sent back to the servers, then you could have stopped all casual piracy.

    To further reduce the problem, simply track hash failures and duplicate UIDs, then wait a bit for the cheaters to get confident before banning all rampant cheaters for a month, sending angry messages to all moderate cheaters and deleting all offending cards from the database.

    Combined technical hurdles and fear tactics would wipe out practically all significant cheating, leaving only the soldering gun / hex editor crowd who you're not going to stop anyway. For them, as TFA says, there's only so far a hacked deck can take you.

  7. Another reason by Bieeanda · · Score: 4, Informative
    The guys at Penny-Arcade noted that there's a limited number of each card you can stack in your deck, anyway-- three for most, and some others are even more limited, so it's not like you're going to run up against a guy with a deck that's full of Fruitfucker Behemoths.

    Given that Sony seems to be selling the camera separately (or at least making plans to do so), and retailers don't know what to make of it in the first place, the game is probably already doomed to being an odd little gimmick. If they really wanted to go with a collectible game, they would have been better served by something that was wholly online and digital-- the chance of counterfeits goes down substantially there, and the players are only a step away from the card store whenever they turn the console on.

  8. Re:Poker? IROC? by fistfullast33l · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You mean like Poker, a card game where the players get cards from the same deck?

    While I'm not an expert in CCG, I think I would argue that randomness plays a larger part in Poker then in a game like Magic. How random is this game when you can choose the cards you wish to put in your deck before the game begins? That's like stacking a deck in Poker so you always get a flush...