Boing Boing Founder Warns of "Internet AIDS"

An anonymous reader writes "Cory Doctorow, founder of Boing Boing, says he doesn't have a problem in principle with the automated network defense systems that guard the Internet against malware, spamigation bots, and other network nasties. However, in his article 'The Future of Internet Immune Systems,' he bemoans the problems caused by 'Internet autoimmune disorder' — where the network defenses designed to block network attacks are automated and instantaneous, but the systems in place to reverse erroneous lockdowns are manual and unresponsive."

Comments

Internet AIDS

[Anonymous Coward]

All that sex it has sure would give it AIDS

automation is only one-way

[andreyvul]

We still need humans on the other end to fix automation's bugs; algorithms cannot bypass themselves.

This already exists

[Bryansix]

When my company moved we had to get new IP addresses. This meant changing MX records and all of that fun. Anyways, the problem came with sending email out. It turns out that like a billion spam catched had caught email from the IP range and so it was not blocked. These various Spam Blocking Lists (or SBLs) are almost all automated. A few of them let you push a button and get removed. However some of them require manually emailing an explanation and still others try to extort money from you to speed up the unblocking process. We didn't even send any spam. The previous owners of the IP did.

Re:This already exists

[pclminion]

These various Spam Blocking Lists (or SBLs) are almost all automated. A few of them let you push a button and get removed. However some of them require manually emailing an explanation and still others try to extort money from you to speed up the unblocking process. We didn't even send any spam. The previous owners of the IP did.

If this isn't a strong argument that blacklisting systems are unethical, I don't know what is. Imagine being targeted by vigilantes because you bought a house which was previously occupied by a sex offender and so the addreess is listed on the local sex offender registry. That's essentially what's happening here.

There is no such thing as an "evil IP address" any more than there is an "evil house." These systems are technically, logically, as well as ethically flawed. Anybody who buys into blacklist-based technology is a reactionary and a bigot.

Re:This already exists

[RazzleDazzle]

Well then you obviously are not on the receiving end of millions of spam emails every day that *COULD* have been rejected outright if only you'd been using an SBL. Or you have so much free time to delete all of the junk emails, in which case where do you work? I would like a job? The whole basis of your argument gives no explanation as to how block lists are flawed morally. Technically flawed, yes. Morally flawed, I'd say no. Why should I waste all of my time looking and and handling spam emails I never wanted, requested, or occasionally specifically asked to not to receive? Just so I can be morally superior to spammers?

Let's pretend I agree that SBL's are immoral, I'd gladly take the hit to my moral standing if it means the (even less moral) spammers can't get as much of their crap to my inbox.

No one sane has ever said that block lists are the ultimate solution for the fight against spam, it is a very useful and very effective supplement to other measures. If something better comes along, I'd gladly use it.

If you don't like block lists, don't use them.

Automatic Forgiveness in Autonomic Systems...

[nweaver]

For a lot of autonomic systems, you need the blocking, but a little automatic forgiveness goes a long way.

EG, in a scan detector, forgive 1 scan per minute/hour and eventually release the block. This saves a call to tech support, and papers over a lot of sins when building an automatic system.

Auto-immune != immuno-deficient

[ChameleonDave]

The summary title is stupid.

AIDS is not auto-immune; it is immuno-deficient. The FA doesn't mention AIDS. Try this.

Re:Auto-immune != immuno-deficient

[ColdWetDog]

It's kind of a dumb rant - automatic systems are cheap and fast, manual (meat space) systems are slow and expensive. If he is trying to make some analogy between the Internet and the Immune System, well, you can do it but it's pretty crude. The immune system in a human, for example, is a complex and delicate balance between acceptance and destruction.

There are many, many examples of problems when that balance is disrupted. AIDS on one hand when you don't have enough of an immune response, Lupus when your immune system is too jazzed up. Furthermore, the immune system is incredibly complex and has layers and layers of feedback systems, redundancies, control loops and things we really don't understand well. I suppose AIDS would be a Windows box hooked up to a cable modem. Not long for this world.... Lupus might be what Doctorow is complaining about - too much "immune" activity.

Unlike the Internet, the immune system has had millions of years to evolve to it's present state - and it is still hardly a perfect system. Perhaps some up and coming "Internet Immunologist" might start out with this course to take advantage of those millenniums of experiments

Or perhaps we should just chuck the immune system thing and try to come up with a car analogy.

hmm

[theMerovingian]

the systems in place to reverse erroneous lockdowns are manual and unresponsive

Anyone who is married knows how much of a dilemma this presents...

The pool is closed!

[Anonymous Coward]

Due to AIDS!

Doctorow not a founder of BoingBoing

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know how many times I've heard Doctorow say in interviews that he is not a founder of BoingBoing. Fraunfelder is the only founder still involved with BoingBoing (I think he is also the only current contributor who was around when BoingBoing was in print before it went electronic).

Re:Not AIDS

[Hatta]

It's not lupus, it's never lupus.

The internet is no longer a series of tubes.

[Trespass]

It's now a pool- and it's closed.

Re:Blacklists

[s7uar7]

Fine, block it for the duration of the attack, but don't keep it permanently on the list. Most spam and DoS attacks originate from hijacked PCs on dynamic IP addresses, so you're not only blocking the PC that's been hijacked, but also the guy who happens to get that IP address next, and the one after, and the one after that, etc, etc.

AIDS?

[Pendersempai]

Only if we get to call a tiered internet "Internet racism."

Spam is email that forces itself upon me -- that can be "Internet rape."

What Comcast is doing to bittorrent traffic: "Internet genocide."

And the projected brownouts as described by that other article on the front page right now: "Internet Alzheimer's."

These attention-grabbing headlines are so accurate and informative!

Not founder, not AIDS, otherwise, w00t!

[mouthbeef]

Hey there -- I wrote the FA, and for the record:

* I didn't found Boing Boing -- I co-edit it with Mark Frauenfelder (who *did* found it, along with Carla Sinclair), Xeni Jardin and David Pescovitz

* I didn't use the word AIDS in the article, and I don't think that this is comparable to AIDS; I used "autoimmune disorder," as in "allergy" or even "lupus" -- that is, any time when the systems that are supposed to protect you end up attacking you

Otherwise, many w00ts for this making it to the /. front door!