KDE 4.0 RC 1 Released

angryfirelord writes "The KDE Community is happy to announce the immediate availability of the first release candidate for KDE 4.0. This release candidate marks that the majority of the components of KDE 4.0 are now approaching release quality. While the final bits of Plasma, the brand new desktop shell and panel in KDE 4, are falling into place, the KDE community decided to publish a first release candidate for the KDE 4.0 Desktop. Release Candidate 1 is the first preview of KDE 4.0 which is suitable for general use and discovering the improvements that have taken place all over the KDE codebase."

Comments

Yes but...

[Anonymous Coward]

does it run on Vista?

Re:Yes but...

[Surye]

It's built on QT4, so after they iron out a few details, yes.

Slashdotted.

[Valdrax]

Looks like plasma.kde.org is Slashdotted right now, so hey -- Wikipedia to the rescue.

Re:Slashdotted.

[recoiledsnake]

From the wiki:

Kross scripting framework will be used to allow developers to write widgets in JavaScript, Ruby, and Python in addition to C++ [1]. No prizes for guessing what the gnome version will be called.

Slashdotted

[JBHarris]

The main site is already bogged down. However, the major change is the completion & inclusion of Plasma. I like candy.

Screenshots

[arevos]

Screenshots are important for superficial people like me :)

I like the widget and window theme, but the kicker replacement at the bottom looks pretty tacky. It was the same in beta, and I'd hoped they'd change it for release, but it seems like they're sticking with it.

Re:Screenshots

[Mistshadow2k4]

I wouldn't say it makes you superficial. Good screenshots can be very informative when deciding whether or not you might like a program (or desktop environment), especially if you can see effects and/or menus.

Re:Screenshots

[nutshell42]

I like the widget and window theme, but the kicker replacement at the bottom looks pretty tacky. It was the same in beta, and I'd hoped they'd change it for release, but it seems like they're sticking with it.

No, it's gonna look like this. In fact, it already does in CVS apparently.

Screenshots and previews of slightly olderreleases

[Rudd-O]

I have reviews of the general KDE desktop and Dolphin 4 on my page. I will review RC1 as soon as I can get Kubuntu packages.

Coming together

[eean]

I finally tried out a full KDE4 session last week and it is really coming together. I really look forward to the creative stuff people make with Plasma. Its not just a tool for having fun widgets on the desktop (which it is), but its designed so folks can easily develop their own taskbar, interactive wallpaper whatever.

So KDE 4.0 will be cool, KDE 4.0 + 6 months of people creating fun plasmoids, even cooler.

KDE 4 Live CD

[Rich]

For people who want to check out the RC without reinstalling KDE (and without risking breaking your existing setup) there's a live CD available at:
http://home.kde.org/~binner/kde-four-live/
Have a lot of fun!

Fat or muscle?

[Valdrax]

And yet I find myself installing more and more KDE apps on my GNOME system because of how slow or boneheadedly featureless their GNOME equivalents are. (Evince, I stab at thee! So much hatred for its sluggish rendering and inability to change its default view.)

And when is GNOME ever going to get a good burning app like K3b?

Re:Fat or muscle?

[passthecrackpipe]

Also, precompiled binaries as RPMs for KDE (Debian RPMs for example) are always running a little bit slower
where can I find these RPM's for Debian? And do I need to run them through alien first?

Re:Fat or muscle?

[DoofusOfDeath]

And yet I find myself installing more and more KDE apps on my GNOME system because of how slow or boneheadedly featureless their GNOME equivalents are.

I find that the KDE apps (k3b, kate, etc.) are more full-featured, but the Gnome desktop seems much cleaner to me. So I'm just glad they can peacefully coexist.

Re:Fat or muscle?

[Enderandrew]

Please mod parent down. Every benchmark and testcase shows the same apps run faster, and use less memory on KDE than Gnome, and the default desktop on KDE runs faster and uses less memory on KDE than Gnome.

That may change in KDE 4, even though QT 4 is supposed to use less memory and run faster, but between the new kdelibs and Plasma, you have enough new features that is taking up more system resources than KDE 3. This is also still an early RC of the first release of the KDE 4 cycle. Given that KDE 3 got more efficient over time, I can hope KDE 4 will also get more efficient over time.

kde 4 apps will run on Windows

[eean]

Plasma isn't planning too, but most KDE apps will be able to run on Windows. If not at the KDE 4.0, then in the near future.

Re:Did they de-fat KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, despite all the extra features and configurability, KDE still manages to use about the same resources as GNOME:

http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/desktop_benchmark.html

http://spooky-possum.org/cgi-bin/pyblosxom.cgi/kdevsgnome.html

KDE doesn't have much fat; it has muscle.

Release Candidate or Beta --what's the diff?

[KWTm]

Am I alone in thinking that people are abusing the term "Release Candidate"? Since there already is a term, "beta", that means "functional, with minor bugs to be ironed out", I would consider "Release Candidate" to refer to a true candidate --that is, it might really be released! KDE (or whoever the responsible author is) might say: "Okay, all those of you who downloaded Release Candidate x (where x=1,2,...), you can just go ahead and keep using it, because the RC has turned into the real thing."

Software or distros that are "coming together" are not Release Candidates. They have no possibility of being released. Suppose everyone who tried this KDE4 RC1 said, "Yup, everything works fine! No changes need to be made," would KDE release it? No, because they're NOT DONE YET --Plasma still has to be put together. Since they won't be releasing this version at all, it shouldn't be called a Release Candidate. It's another beta.

There's no shame in calling it beta (heck, half of Google's services are labeled beta); I don't see the need to keep advancing the terms. What's next? If "Release Candidate" comes to mean "beta", should we start using the term "Release Candidate with Potential For Use Unchanged"?

Maybe someone can correct on this if I'm wrong. What makes this a Release Candidate and not a Beta?

(Btw, diehard KDE fan here --I'm not even considering GNOME until they start having user-configurable key shortcuts. Waiting for KDE4 final release in December to be worked into Gutsy so I can put it on my Came-With-Ubuntu laptop.)

Re:Release Candidate or Beta --what's the diff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I alone in thinking that people are abusing the term "Release Candidate"?

No, you aren't alone, but according to KDE fanboys, beta means that it compiles and release candidate means they've decided what features are going in. And if you disagree, then you're an idiot who doesn't understand open-source.

Whether 4.0 will actually be usable depends on the way in which you ask. If you read the press releases or praise the developers, then 4.0 will be the best thing since sliced bread. But if you are worried about the quality and wondering why they are dropping features that were in KDE 3, then 4.0 is merely a preview release and 4.1 is going to be the real, finished thing. That way, they can get all the praise, but write off any criticism as "it's not ready yet", regardless of how finished the final release is.

For example, the much exalted Plasma has been hyped since long before it ever existed. It had its own website when it was nothing more than mocked up screenshots and vague descriptions of how awesome it was going to be. And it was hyped right up until the alphas, when people were wondering where it was. It seems to be a last-minute job, and when people on dot.kde.org complain that "basically nothing works" in response to the third beta, one of the core developers responds with "i'm not particularly taken by the heartstrings people are plucking here. there are lots of things to test and bump around with in these betas. stop fixating on plasma for the moment; you'll get to play with more of its features as more releases come. [...] there is exactly one release that counts for plasma, and that'll be 4.0, though the rc's leading up to it will be important as well. there is also exactly one canonical place to gauge the "workingness" (hm. neat word.) of things right now and that's svn.". The KDE project is not interested in using the release cycle as a method of quality assurance, they release betas in order to show off how far they have gotten with features for the people who can't compile it themselves. As somebody else put it: " I know Plasma is barely more than a fetus at this point, and it doesn't even fully replicate all the features of the old desktop." - that's in response to the third beta, and still people tell him to wait. Shouldn't a core part of the desktop be relatively finished by the third beta?

Disclaimer: I've used KDE since the 1.0 betas. I'm no GNOME troll. I just think the attitude the project is taking towards 4.0 seems to be all about ego and has dropped the transparency or quality that I've become used to with open-source projects.

PS: I think it utterly sucks that I have to add disclaimers like that because otherwise I get called a troll (which is apparently the term for people who do something other than emit unadulterated praise for the developers on dot.kde.org). Christ, look at the fawning that is normal on the dot: many people says that kde3.0 was untable, full of bug and that kde will be the same, but kde4 look really stable, some parts crash, but the are apps like juk, kwin4 like composite works without problems, dolphin stable, i have hope that when kde4.0 is released can be used like kde3.5.x." That's right, it's not unstable or full of bugs if some of the apps work, and it's considered praiseworthy to hope that KDE 4 is as good as KDE 3.5. This is ridiculous.

Re:Release Candidate or Beta --what's the diff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Took the words out of my mouth. Yes, IP theft is rampart in Slashdot nowadays.

...where's the meat?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Well, I can't say I object to any of these improvements, but most of them seem pretty minor and incremental. Cleaner APIs and more efficient libraries are nice. For the end user, where's the meat of this release? Okay now it supports Widgets. Well, that can be sort of useful if there is a good selection of them. I've heard claims they added support for OS X native widgets and that could help a lot to make this actually useful. Anyone actually tried using them yet?

When a new full version comes out and I find myself looking forward to the improved spellchecker, because it is still worse architecturally than on other platforms I use, but at least it is better... well I start to wonder what happened. I'm not trying to put down the developers or anything, this is obviously a lot of work, especially Dolphin, but I guess I was hoping for more. When will KParts be upgraded to work like OS X system services? Where's grammar checking? Where's anything we haven't seen on another OS/Window manager already? As a Kubuntu user, I guess I'm just not really as excited by this as I'd like to be.

Re:...where's the meat?

[logixoul]

Okay now it supports Widgets. KDE has supported widgets for years, via SuperKaramba (which is bundled from 3.5 onwards). Plasma brings some innovation into the area.

I've heard claims they added support for OS X native widgets Not in the main branch, no. A showstopper for this is that it would require using the WebKit renderer, which still doesn't come with Qt (but it will next year).

When will KParts be upgraded to work like OS X system services? What do those have that KParts don't? Never used OS X myself...

Well, I can't say I object to any of these improvements, but most of them seem pretty minor and incremental. Sure, the single biggest change in KDE4 vs KDE3 is the porting to Qt4.

Where's anything we haven't seen on another OS/Window manager already? I won't compare to non-free platforms... from what I've heard, OS X's desktop environment kicks our ass in every way other than freedom.
So, off the top of my head...
KWin got compositing support, meaning you get eye candy ala Compiz, except with a more mature codebase.
Plasma is technologically superior to others' applet solutions.
Marble is the fastest and leanest desktop globe.
KRunner is (will be) similar to OS X's Spotlight.
Lancelot is unique as a zero-click start menu. The utility of this remains to be seen.

About the spellchecker, Sonnet, its main developer mysteriously disappeared an year ago, and development has been slow since. No grammar checking in 4.0, no. It does have improvements over the KDE3 spellchecker (KSpell2) -- like the ability to recognize separate languages in separate paragraphs and use the right dictionaries.

KDE4 is not just this RC. There's 2 years of development behind it, starting from the 3.5 branch. And there's lots of years ahead of it, to make the most out of a really solid foundation... IOW if you want "meat", come back for 4.1.

4.0 is for early adopters.

Re:do not stop progress by not wanting 'bloat'...

[orclevegam]

Well, there's two kinds of "bloated" and people often don't differentiate between the two. There's bloated in the sense of being written poorly and wasting a lot of resources for no reason, and then there's bloated in the sense of having a whole bunch of features that various people may or may not want (which usually determines if they consider it bloated or not). The first kind of bloated of course is clearly a valid criticism that needs to be addressed, the second kind however is mostly a matter of taste. Myself, I like a bit of eye candy, but at the same time I don't like to waste a lot of space, so I tend to lean towards either Enlightenment, or Blackbox for my WM. Both can be configured to be relatively minimalist in terms of screen real estate used by the various pieces of the WM, but in the case of enlightenment it tends to use some resources because of all the eye candy options. Does that make it bloated? Maybe, but that really depends on if you like eye candy or not.

Re:Why do I want a giant clock or battery widget

[Anonymous Coward]

Kand Kwhy Kmust Kevery Kapp Kbe Knamed Klike Kthis?

Gexactly. GGNOME Gdoesn't Ghave Gthese Gissues.

Re:KDE vs Gnome

[_Sprocket_]

KDE or Gnome?

I recently had a very busy weekend trying edubutu, ubunutu, xubuntu, and gOS on an IBM T40, with mixed results.
I did not get around to kubuntu, perhaps I should have. Ubuntu is (for the most part) a Gnome environment. Kubuntu is the KDE oriented version of Ubuntu. At this point, Kubuntu lacks the polish seen in Ubuntu. As you seem to be getting your feet wet, you probably would want to stick with Ubuntu and its polished Gnome environment.

Me, myself... I'm using Kubuntu. I just like KDE better and am familiar enough with it to deal with Kubuntu's occasional rough edge. You might feel inclined to test those waters once you're feeling like you've got a good footing.

It should be stressed that the issue of Gnome vs. KDE (vs. Blackbox, Enlightenment, etc., etc.) is mostly a matter of interface and taste. The applications you run aren't necessarily restricted by your desktop... even if they are often bundled with one project or another.

Re:That's nice

[crazybilly]

He's just venting the frustration natural to any new Gnome user. It's a result of wanting to change things and realizing the devs didn't think you needed to be able to change that w/o an hour of googling for which text file to edit, another half an hour of which setting to change and two more hours of figuring out how you did it wrong, how to fix it and then how to do it right. Venting like this healthy. Let the man be, hehehe.

Re:That's nice

[Haeleth]

You can use GNOME if you want to. People who want more flexibility (and to be treated like adults) can use KDE.

I used to think this mattered, but in practice for any moderately advanced user there's very little difference between them; the desktop environment provides launch menus and virtual desktops, and that's about it, because you'll be doing most of your file management from a shell prompt or a dired buffer, and the rest is just applications.

And really, the only thing in GNOME that ever annoyed me was the brain-dead unconfigurable window placement in Metacity that kept thinking I wanted my new window to appear on my second monitor, and that's become irrelevant now that the infinitely-configurable compiz is mature.

Re:Redunant

[Mistshadow2k4]

Ah, one of my foes/freak/whatever didn't have the guts to post as himself. I've posted AC myself many a-time, but I've never done so just to troll somebody. Y'know, if you hate someone enough to do this that you've never actually met, maybe you're taking your online life a bit too seriously.

Release Candidate?

[Columcille]

Release candidate? Come on, I know people are pretty lax about terms to use - alpha, beta, RC, what do they even mean anymore? But come on, this is going a bit far:

This release candidate marks that the majority of the components of KDE 4.0 are now approaching release quality...

And so on. Now, unless I missed something, a release candidate is when you think your product is about ready for public release but you want to have people test its "final form" first. You think it is ready, but you want to real-world test it to iron out bugs that have escaped you. Release candidates are not packages that are known to be incomplete. Is KDE doing this just to show some progress since the year is stretching on without a release of KDE 4? Just call it another beta. Heck, it sounds like it might should be alpha still. They are not yet to the final bugging stage, it is not feature complete, they are still adding new code. I can forgive them for calling an alpha a beta, but calling an alpha a release candidate? Come on!

(P.S., I know I'm hijacking a thread to get higher position with my post. Please forgive me. This post is in release-candidate status and the final form of this post is expected to be relevant to the current discussion thread.)

Re: gnome burning app

[ThinkOfaNumber]

And when is GNOME ever going to get a good burning app like K3b? Gnome has one. It's called K3b.

Re: gnome burning app

[jaxtherat]

Please mod parent up. I agree, this whole discussion is silly. You can run any KDE app in Gnome if you have the libraries installed, and vice-versa.

All this psycho right wing DE advocacy is nothing but a childish pissing contest, and is symptomatic of the fact that people need to feel like they belong to something special, and that everyone who disagrees with them needs to have their brains bashed out with a rock.

Sheesh, we're no better than fricking cavemen with cool gadgets and nukes...

You forgot how FS release schedules work

[Qwaniton]

Oh come on, remember how this works. In today's Free Software projects, we've learned how to develop as professionals and deliver product on time instead of when it's donewhen we feel like it. How do we accomplish this? Simple. We pick a date and when that date hits we freeze the code, bugs and all! We pick what bugs we really want to fix, even though it's obvious from the Bugzilla it's riddled with bugs of all kinds. The bugs we pick are deemed "crucial" after careful deliberation via a mailinglist flamewar full of nerds. After we fix, say, half of these, we ship the release and let the distributions break it with all sorts of patches. We continue pushing out new features disguised as bugfixes, which take approximately an eternity to trickle down to the end-users (we write for the distributors, God forbid we make it easy for end users, they might hurt themselves). Debian especially, never content to just let shit be, applies ten thousand patches that turn KDE into a desktop environment almost but not entirely unlike a regular KDE install. Eventually it approaches stability and polish, but somehow it always manages to pull back when someone decides to add new glitz. Notice to Free Software developers: Why not code in mind for the UNIX nerd in the Terminal content to ./configure && make && make install shit? The distributors will patch the piss out of your code anyway. See this [kde-buildsystem] mailing list post if you want to know what I'm talking about. Thank Christ the reply I linked to was written by someone with a grasp of reality. As for me, right now, I'm on Windows 2000 and loving it. My ThinkPad T21 has a no-Linux policy mainly because the kernel pukes when it talks to the hardware, but even after I fix that (in a no-GUI boot which you Ubuntards wouldn't understand), I find myself using an OS exactly as this comment describes. I'll come back to GNU/Linux when GNU gets its shit together and glues its compnents together into an actual GNU system; Linux developers write competent, consistent and standardized userland tools and APIs; and distributors/GNOME developers (they're the same thing at this point) stop writing castrated crucial components like safety scissors a la NetworkManager. Modern GNU/Linux distributions are like houses of cards. Despite all of this, I love KDE with all my heart and I wish I could try KDE 4. I miss Unix. However, I don't miss the current state of affairs in userland 'N*X, especially Ubuntu. Until I find a solid distribution I can actually use to its full potential (besides Slackware), I'll resist temptation and stay far away.