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RIAA Must Divulge Expenses-Per-Download

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The Court has ordered UMG Recordings, Warner Bros. Records, Interscope Records, Motown, and SONY BMG to disclose their expenses-per-download to the defendant's lawyers, in UMG v. Lindor, a case pending in Brooklyn. The Court held that the expense figures are relevant to the issue of whether the RIAA's attempt to recover damages of $750 or more per 99-cent song file, is an unconstitutional violation of due process."

6 of 305 comments (clear)

  1. Wouldn't it be ironic by Wylfing · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the lawsuits brought by the RIAA in an attempt to preserve/enhance strong copyright ended up severely diminishing U.S. copyright law instead?

    --
    Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    1. Re:Wouldn't it be ironic by John_The_Savage · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While judges complain it will still not stop the problem. Judges complain all the time. They complain about silly discovery disputes that they think should not be in their courtroom. But there are still discovery disputes everyday. The bar does have a way of self regulating and keeping the most egregious ones out of court. But the lawyer is still driven by the client. And the client (the business) is driven by simple capitalism. $50 dollars in legal fees for a chance to win millions in licensing. Hell even the threat of a lawsuit might just get them to settle. In sum, judges can complain all they want but ultimately the legislature needs to step up and fix this mess.

  2. Re:$750 by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, they do. They claim whatever they can get away with. And considering if you have a site license with MS, you agree in part of the license terms to be searched AT your cost.

    And if you legally fight them, they have Congress on their side: you pay THEIR lawyer bills.

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  3. Re:$750 by shark72 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I've always been amazed by the gall they have quoting that number."

    That's the minimum statutory amount. Per S504:

    (1) Except as provided by clause (2) of this subsection, the copyright owner may elect, at any time before final judgment is rendered, to recover, instead of actual damages and profits, an award of statutory damages for all infringements involved in the action, with respect to any one work, for which any one infringer is liable individually, or for which any two or more infringers are liable jointly and severally, in a sum of not less than $750 or more than $30,000 as the court considers just.

    Note that the record labels are asking for the minimum allowed. Could be much worse!

    "What other type of copyright infringement can claim 757.6 times the value of the product as damages?"

    Any other type of infringement where the retail value of the product is around a buck -- that is, not much. The $750 is arbitrary; ie. it'd be the statutory minimum amount if you were nailed for sharing copies of, say, PhotoShop... in which case the ratio would be much lower than 750:1.

    The $750 minimum is out-of-date; a remnant of the days before it was so easy to share so much music. It was written in a time when it took a lot of work to distribute 1,000 unique pirated songs.

    Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 answers, but I think that a more fitting statutory minimum should be in the neighborhood of $50 per work. Yes, I know, information wants to be fweeeeeeeeeeeeee, but for as long as copyright law is still around, the courts should be able to issue judgements that are an effective deterrent. If I were nailed for sharing 100 songs and the RIAA could only collect a statutory minimum of $5K from me rather than $75K (as under current law), I'd still get the point that perhaps I shouldn't have helped make other people's information so free after all.

    --
    Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
  4. Re:Nothing "ironic" by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They were in a lose-lose situation before they started. Ignore the problem, and the copyright law is useless. Try to enforce your rights, and the legal protections degrade, as you observed.

    No, really it wasn't. The biggest problem they had was that they weren't selling a product wanted to buy, and that they weren't putting most of the money into making a compelling product. Most people are decent enough, but most people aren't sufficiently stupid to pay for an item that they don't value.

    I bought many CDs in the couple of years up until the lawsuits began, I bought a few since, but at this point I won't buy any, and I discourage people from giving me any albums. I'll still buy indie albums, or at least the ones that come from non RIAA affiliated labels, when I can be reasonably sure they aren't paying dues.

    They wouldn't be this unpopular if they were just enforcing their legal rights, they're this unpopular because what they are engaging in better resembles extortion than seeking legal relief. Their lack of interest in following typical courtroom procedures, and the very fact that their evidence is frequently unverifiable all but ensures that they will be both loathed and despised for years to come.

    They also wouldn't be this unpopular if they were prosecuting their own relatives for similar acts of infringement. I think that was one of the more egregious points, when that child of an executive was caught red handed. Rather than being forced to settle or being drug into court, he was given a stern lecture from his father.

    Honestly, how can anybody observe any of that, and still feel like it was a lose-lose. They didn't have to destroy their own image to make the pirates pay. The amount of damage they have themselves willfully inflicted on themselves has been huge. What with the random lawsuits, DRM and the rootkit ready audio CDs.
  5. Re:Nothing "ironic" by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They were in a lose-lose situation before they started. Ignore the problem, and the copyright law is useless. Try to enforce your rights, and the legal protections degrade, as you observed.
    Yes they were in a lose-lose situation, but they themselves created that situation. What we're seeing is a disparity between the market domain (i.e. reality) and the legal domain shaking out. The market recognizes that software (including patents, music, pictures, video) has essentially zero cost of duplication and (thanks to the Internet) zero cost of distribution. It wants to drive the cost of such services towards zero. The *AA saw that, panicked, and got a bunch of laws passed which made it illegal to do what the market wanted to do; that made common sense illegal (e.g. I paid for that DRM's music, why can't I have a copy of it both on my computer and my MP3 player?). They took laws created ostensibly to crack down on commercial copyright infringers, and started (ab)using them as a sledgehammer against petty personal infringement.

    What we're seeing now is reality reasserting itself over these nonsensical laws. If the RIAA had recognized what was happening and concentrated on developing a workable business model, they wouldn't have put themselves into a lose-lose situation. But the industry as it pre-existed were so abusive of performers' rights that I'm not sure that was even possible. The Internet has made the value of the distributor nearly worthless -- anybody can distribute now, just slap your MP3s onto a web server. Since any workable business model has to accurately reflect the value the distributor adds to the music production process, their revenue would've gone from >95% of the pie to less than 5%. The MPAA is in much better shape because movie production involves a lot more capital (they add much more value to the process), and their final product is more realistically priced ($20-$30 for a DVD or BR/HD-DVD feels about right to me for the value I'm getting, so I don't have much problem justifying to myself paying for it).